Hanaguma

Cool , here are some facts from Reuters: The most important problem facing America according to voters: Inflation, jobs/economy, gun violence, abortion, immigration, climate.... in that order. Gee, what seems to be missing? https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELECTION/ECONOMY-POLL/akvezdbzrpr/ How many of these did the President address in his speech?

You know we can play semantic games about what to call the events of January 6, from an energetic fan club meeting to the revenge of Himmler. It really doesn't matter. If you want everyone to call it an insurrection or coup, fine. The Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) are twisting themselves into knots trying to make it relevant to the voters now, and it simply isn't working.

Well, if Bennie Thompson says it, then it must be true /s In any case, it really doesn't matter. The voters have decided that other issues are far more important in their lives. Biden and the Democrats failed in their attempt to push January 6 as an election issue. They are just realizing it now but far too late in the campaign.

a good reason why the Democrats are going to take a major thrashing in the mid terms on Tuesday. If a voter is driving home from the grocery store with their $5 eggs and $7 loaf of bread, past gas stations that charge $5.99 a gallon, then turn on the tv and hear hyperventilating pundits screech "January &!!", I know which will have more impact on their voting decision.

Yet somehow only 3 of them remembered to bring their guns. Some coup....

Exactly right. It is possible to acknowledge the very real damage and injuries caused by the rioters, without ascribing to them motives and skills they did not have. Sure there were a few yahoos and paranoids who were dreaming fevered dreams of restoring Trump to power. But the vast majority were simply frustrated idiots. Guys throwing a coup don't leave their guns in the Hampton Inn across the river.

...so....they go to the Capitol unarmed, somehow overcome the guards, find the VP, either hang him or pressure him, then the election will magically change. If not, they wait for a call from the Bad Orange Man, then head back across the river to get their guns as a QRF to...what, exactly? Will they NOW defy Washington's gun laws and react to.... man, I am confused. or Occam's Razor suggests that they are blowhard wannabes. No chance of doing any lasting harm to the system whatsoever.

From Goodfellas; DeNiro decides to kill a mouthy partner in crime. Masterful.

Are these more of those terrible terrorists who decided not to bring their guns to their own insurrection? God forbid they should contravene DC's gun laws on their way to overthrowing democracy...

That is a reasonable position, I can understand how people can see it that way. I just tire of the constant heavy breathing and "we are one small step from fascism" crowd and their faux vituperation.

... so you DON'T think they were an actual threat to "our democracy" then.... got it. I agree that most of the guys I saw on Jan 6 were not the sharpest knives in the drawer by any stretch of the imagination. They deserve to be punished and mocked. I am genuinely curious as to what exactly you think I am minimizing? I have been accused before of minimizing the whole "threat to our democracy" as a result of the riots. But not the actual riot itself.

Do you honestly, seriously believe that this group of dudes was a serious threat to the American political system? That they wanted to storm the Capitol and hang the VP, but at the same time were reluctant to bring their guns? It is illogical in the extreme. I am in no way minimizing what happened on January 6. This isn't like the 9/11 hoax people. The event happened. Property was damaged, Cops were injured. A protester was shot. A group of idiots got worked up and were out of control. It was bad. It was an embarrassment to the country. But it wasn't an actual threat to America's political institutions in any meaningful, long term way. These were deluded idiots who literally didn't know what to do once they actually breached the Capitol building itself. There was no organization, no attempt to reach out to Americans across the country and declare the New Revolution. Pure political paranoia, fuelled by a healthy dose of Bad Orange Man Derangement Syndrome.

There is also the lovely example of Mohamar Khadaffi (sp) who voluntarily gave up his weapons and wound up sodomized in a ditch.

Did you say "thank you, Mr. President?" But seriously, we are talking about the spending done by Biden- The American Rescue Plan. Maybe Joe forgot to send you a cheque. He forgets a lot of things these days. TBH I think Trump spent too much already by that time, Biden just made it even worse. There was some justification in the first round of spending, but not the second.

In other words, you don't know. I get it, trying to squeeze outrage out of this is hard. But let's say, for argument, that "a mass of guns" is 20 guns. You think that will get the job done? Sitting across the river because the big brave revolutionaries are leery of breaking Washington DC's strict gun laws? That alone should tell you that these guys were not anything like the hardcore insurrectionists that the media and the Democratic party are so eagerly seeking. These guys couldn't pose a threat to an election for dog catcher in Lower East Armpit Arkansas, let alone the presidential campaign.

Not at all, I just want to know how many. "A mass of guns" says nothing. And apparently it didn't bother the folks who were questioning him either. All irrelevant because the guns were all (however many) left in a hotel room across the river, not at the Capitol. These guys were pretty lousy at insurrection. Bring their guns all the way from Florida and then leave them at the hotel across the river because of Washington DC's strict gun laws. Does that sound like a serious group of revolutionaries to you?

Right now? Yes, Europe is sadly catching up. But Bidenflation started back when he passed the ridiculously named American Rescue Plan. The article I posted showed US core inflation at about 4% at the end of 2021, the OECD average was about 1.2% . Previously, they had been almost the same.

One gun is all it takes to do what? Win an insurrection in a city that has thousands of police, plus military, plus armed agents of the federal government? The vagueness of the argument is quite telling. "They" had "their weapons" nearby. Who and how many? These are crucial details to determine how seriously to take the situation. If two thousand militia members showed up, armed to the teeth, then we have an insurrection. If 4 or 5 rednecks bring their pistols, we dont. It is pretty simple.

Again, how many is that? He brought an AR, what about the guys he traveled with? He also testified that his Oath Keeper friends didnt carry their guns into the Capitol "because it was illegal to do so". These guys really sound like hard core insurrectionists, don't they? https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/12/politics/oath-keeper-guns-dc-january-6/index.html

You don't need to show me videos of the riots to convince me that they took place. I believe you. Wish I could read the article but it is hidden behind a paywall. Sounds like a very general question was asked in order to provoke a certain response. Hence a quarter of Democrats agreeing.

"All their weapons" meaning what exactly? Did they have a cache of AR-15s enough to equip an infantry company in the bed of a Dodge Ram somewhere close by? I agree it would have been worse- worse for the idiots carrying the weapons. Being actually armed would have gotten a lot of them shot by police. But that didnt happen. The Oath Keepers "forgot" to bring their toys, had a bit of a tantrum in the Capitol, and now are getting spanked. Hardly cause for alarm. The federal system is not so fragile.

I am not defending their actions whatsoever. The idiots who vandalized the Capitol deserve to be punished and mocked. But not taken so seriously because they were incapable of doing any serious long term damage to the institutions of the nation. They had neither the means nor the intellectual horsepower to do it. OK, let's play "what if". Worst case scenario: What if they actually DID find Pence and Pelosi and actually harmed them? The election results would not have changed, the vast majority of Americans would consider them murdering scumbags, and life would have gone on. We would still have President Biden and a functioning political system. THAT is the difference between a riot and an insurrection.

Oh, I don't disagree at all. There were some real winners for sure. Yet there was also an incredibly cynical play by the Democrats to actually get some deniers onto the ballot, thinking they were easier to defeat than more mainstream GOP candidates. And that is just sick. You simply can't base your campaign on the dangers of election deniers, and then secretly spend millions trying to get them nominated. It completely undercuts the legitimacy of the original argument that they are a threat to democracy.

,,, and in each of those cases, the US was transformed into a tyrannical fascist dictatorship, right? Or not. Apples and oranges my friend. If you can find a largely unarmed insurrection in the US that succeeded, then I will join you on the panic train. Until then, sorry but the idea that a ragtag mob of beer bellied loudmouths were any serious threat to the Capitol, let alone to the institutions of the Republic, is simply laughable.

OK, and your point is what, exactly? That the left hand didn't know what the right hand was spending money on? Of course the Democrats spend money on attack ads to damage their opponents, no news there. But spending money to get them nominated? Different story.