wildewillie89

2 hours ago, kannot said:

Wow  its almost as if  you are n the 21st century, just think if  they hadnt  had the new  tanks  Subs, Mercedes you  might even have gotten so  much  more..................meanwhile  back in the real Thailand our  Head  of  village (EX  ARMY OFFICER) has  just been sacked for misappropriating 300k  baht along with his "team"

That is a good thing isn't it? That he has been sacked? 

Like I said, I really couldn't care less who wins, they are all as immoral as each other to me. However, this rubbish that nothing can get achieved under a junta government is just that, rubbish. Our last few Mayors, under previous governments spent their time with their cows so the area never developed. It is all how hard Tessaban work to get budgets (so finding budgets to begin with and justifying their need during the application process). If anything, the junta have brought in a lot of extra budgets - for local development at least in my province, that my Tessaban has clearly taken advantage of. If others Tessabans don't, then wouldn't have mattered if red, yellow, or rainbow were running the place, the result would have stayed the same.

I think people misunderstand that the Mayor and staff have to look high and low for budgets and justify them, rather than having them handed to them. So if an area elects an individual who doesn't want to work hard, has lower than a already low Thai education (our Mayor at least has a Masters degree - albeit Thai), cant do effective research/presentation to get project approval, then Thais get what they choose.

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I envy you but just out of curiosity, is your mayor elected or appointed. I think it has relevancy to the progress of your area. 

Elected. I know of no Mayors in my province that are appointed. 

1 minute ago, Eligius said:

So some people in Isaan are now going along with the junta - because a bit of pre-election largesse has been thrown their way?

 

Such people deserve all they are going to get. Carry on, you principled and honourable people  - incarcerate yourselves further in your own tomb. You will love it there. After all - it is a self-made prison cell!

 

Selfishly...it doesn't worry me who wins. Our Mayor works hard so has developed the area more than any Mayor before him under the junta. In a place that is only 5km from the province's main city, we used to have no water. Now we have supply water, dams for farmers, solar panels to run farm pumps, market and meeting places built to sell on produce, roads built, kindergartens built and run by solar panels, my village not only has the exercise equipment but also free wi-fi as you do exercise. Juvenile prison and rice research lab have been approved, an the Immigration Office also has been approved by the Governor, just not Immigration yet. Cant complain. 

Doesn't make any difference who is in or who is out. On the most part they are all the same, with percentages of projects going into places not relevant to the project. In terms of blatant corruption, sure it still happens up top, but some may argue now at least on the local level it happens a little bit less with introduction of the tribunals and stricter rules within government buildings.

Interestingly enough scouts were sent around my area to gauge who is supporting who. In a district that used to despise the junta (I'm in Issan), they have now seemed to get on board with them as they have helped them out in terms of setting up rural markets and also giving the food cards to the elderly. 

Raw bones are not a problem for dogs as they do not splinter. Obviously watch your dog consume raw bones for the first couple of weeks so you know they are not taking on too much of a task. What happens in Thailand is the locals feed 'cooked' bones. Completely different and vets are correct in saying not to do that. 

I do not think any vet in this world, who is good at their job, would suggest feeding rice over raw bones. Chicken carcass is incredibly soft, easily cut with kitchen scissors. 

Not shocking at all. Fake vaccines for a few years and travelling dogs equals spread of rabies. Was only a matter of time.

Like I have said on previous threads, the rabies threat was not blown out of proportion this year. Of course, Soi Dogs claimed it was as they compared stats to 30-40 years ago. This year stats vs 'recent' previous years were up to 4 times as high. The Mrs has had to attend all of the rabies conferences as she runs the programs in our area and the government were quietly having toilet accidents in their pants and hoping for the best due to the information they had. 

Edit: This year was meant to mean 2018. Still haven't adjusted to the new year lol. 

Army isn't necessarily the easiest thing to get into in Thailand. I mean army official (where you get benefits), rather than conscription.

Would have to check if applicable to the Thai military, but other Thai officials can obviously get scholarships into Thai universities, but also can take time off work to further their studies overseas - Masters for example (whilst still being paid their salary). The salary I think just stays the same, rather than rises, until the individual returns. However, that all depends on what Ministry the official works in. If work in the Public Health or Education Ministry from memory they will pay you to study abroad, but Interior Ministry I think have changed and don't do that anymore. Not sure about military officials. 

It would be your adopted sons children that would benefit from him being in the Army (only if he stayed in it). Free health, 100% free government schooling, discounted Thai private education (30% I think) and free university for the duration of the Bachelor. Not to mention if his children wanted to be military it will be much easier if their dad is as separate quotas, well bonus scores anyway.

If leaving the Army I wouldn't be expecting to receive much. Sure, some people may stay in the health system by accident (I know of one), but all the other benefits you pay first, take receipt and get refunded. 

Is there actually a criteria to it? Seems people can write any sort of rubbish and they will be nominated. As long as they are always online, and always first to comment the exact same standard boring responses to the same old stories on TV. So incredibly juvenile/unhelpful comments on topics of corruption, road safety, renting, noise, Muslims, I had a shower with my wife (like they have never seen a naked woman before), I drink beer, bla bla ladyboy etc. 

The fact that not many people are interested in the competition and it is hard work for moderators says it all. Kill it. Flogging a dead horse. Or keep it running in the background for those who do see the forum as their family/friendship base. But don't try and make it something that it isn't. It is POTY of an expat forum where the vast majority of members couldn't give two stuffs, not a Nobel Prize.

I think people who have found members of some use have probably formed contact outside the forum. Even if those people were ever nominated they would never win as are not trying to keep themselves awake all night refreshing stories in the hope they make the first page. This forum gives a sense of the same desperation for likes you see with school girls and IG. 

Due to all the stress of the fireworks the dog probably lost its bearings momentarily. Fireworks, music, drunks most probably continued the next day or two adding to the stress. Finally, when the dog had the opportunity to be calm again it probably took a few days to figure out how to get home. I think it is something like 15 kms a dog can find its home just from familiar scents alone (its own tracks if the wind didn't kill them, other familiar dogs or scents in the area, etc). So the same way mobile phones find coverage from the towers. 

You hear the odd stories of dogs going months and many more kms and then finding their way home, but they are the minority. From memory, the majority get lost after the 15-20km mark. 

I am curious as to many members comments on vets in Thai not putting dogs down. All the vets I have ever been to have said yes to putting animals down. Maybe it was a thing of the past?

Could muzzle the dog but make sure it is the right kind of muzzle. That is, one the dog can pant and drink with (never seen a humane muzzle sold in Thailand - only ones designed to be used for quick vet visits). Otherwise it would be very cruel to have it muzzled all the time. If choose that option the dog would obviously need to go for a full check up at a vet and be treated for parasites if you have kids around it. 

Re biting the people, you can have the dog put down at the vet and then get the municipality to pick it up and get it sent off to be tested for rabies. Municipality will send it to the vet office in the province, if they cant do the test they will cut the head off and send it to a province that can. 

The Thai option is to sedate the dog, put it in a sack and dump it at a temple very far away. Just moving the problem on. Probably not an option if this dog is a loner. 

On 12/7/2018 at 9:57 AM, dick dasterdly said:

and as one of my dogs has joint problems (fortunately minor) - this is important info.

All our mail that gets sent from Australia seems to go missing so I now use Thai friends I have in Melbourne to bring over what I want and post it from Bangkok to the wife's work. Finally, I just got hold of some Rose-Hip Vital Canine, which apparently has been scientifically proven to help joint problems. I think only one farm (in Denmark) produce it in a certain way that makes it more effective than standard rose hip products. I will let you know if it helps my dogs knee. 3 week loading dose and then the dose is halved and used for however long it is needed. They sell it in powder (for bigger dogs) and capsule form. 

A few YouTube videos of it helping smaller dogs. One review was of a chocolate Lab that had had the knee (acl) surgery twice but still had problems. The vet recommended this product and it hasn't had problems since. Most people use it for hips and elbows. Quite pricey. The 500g powder was about 2,200 baht I think, but obviously much cheaper in the long run for a smaller dog.  

My dog I have now restricted to 3 short walks per day and a bit of swimming (he is staying in about a 36 square metre fenced off area)...along with turmeric, glucosamine/chondroitin and some papaya. He has gone from not being able to put any weight on the leg to now only being in pain when he first gets up. If let him out into the yard then he still works hard. Sprints, jumps, stands on back legs, goes up and down stairs, puts all his weight on the bad leg when he pees etc, so it is a bit confusing. Maybe a bit of scar tissue has strengthened it as he rests most of the day/night now. Trying to avoid the surgery as much as possible just because everywhere I ask has said they can do it but have never done it on a dog his size - so hard to decide. A fair quality of life at the moment, or do it. 90% success rate back home but they do it on big dogs everyday. So you would think a much higher chance of them ruining him here due to inexperience, misreading x-rays to get right size plates etc.  

22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I can assure you that I'm not mis-remembering those experiences - even though they were obviously very traumatic.

 

I repeat that the first dog mentioned (Coco) knew the vet very well, as we'd spent a lot of time at the vets in the past few months for blood tests/chemo etc. - and liked him.  Nonetheless, even though for the past 24 hours she'd barely moved - she KNEW that this time it was different, and 'ran' into my arms for comfort.

 

My 'baby' (Mikka) had also shown no interest in me or anything else for the prior 24 hours (extremely unusual as we had such a close bond) - to the extent that when the vet arrived and asked whether I wanted to hold him whilst he was put to sleep, I said 'no' as he hadn't moved or looked at anything for a long time - and so I didn't want to disturb him.  It was only then he opened his eyes, and stared into mine again in the same old way that was so familiar.  So of course I rushed to the side of the sofa on which he was lying, and held him in my arms.  I'm crying again as I type this - but it needs to be said as I'm 100% sure that dogs know far more than so many people (in their arrogance) believe.

I also believe that dogs know a lot more than we believe, a bit like toddlers understand more than people think they do (dogs are often compared to toddlers in terms of social intelligence anyway). Children understand death at about 4, with a small minority understanding it at 3. So there would need to be studies comparing emotional intelligence, ability to predict future from the current stimulus etc. 

Personal stories are a form of evidence, we all have them. However, the way my brain works is it would need to be a conclusive study of a number of dogs that takes some variables out to get a definite answer.  

Until then I am on the fence. In terms of what I would prefer, probably that the dog does not understand. The dogs last few minutes will be hopefully a happy time spent with the owner then off to sleep it goes. But I say that as my dogs whole life purpose is to protect, so if the dogs knew they were going it would be a very stressful time for them as they would also be able to think they are failing their whole life purpose. 

As for the vets wanting people in the room, a different vet will say different things. I would be inclined to think the majority of vets say it so the dog feels comfort in its last minutes, rather than being put in a strange room with strange people or in a room that has shown painful treatment in the past (vaccines etc). I would also be inclined to think that vets suggest that to help the 'closure' aspect from the owners point of view. Also something that may be educational to children (of course give the child a choice after explaining why and what will happen), in how to handle emotions, which is why I would take in my kids if they wanted to when the time comes. 

*Edit: Just because someone is a vet does not qualify them on this matter. It qualifies them as much as a non vet watching dogs being put down. Vets do not study this sort of thing. They study how to make the death as pain free and humane as possible. 

It is hard for many Thais unfortunately. The only really effective stuff is 750 baht 3 months (cannot buy in monthly instalments). Considering so many Thais complain about having to pay 20 baht to have their garbage collected, we can imagine how they would feel spending that much money on a dog. Most will even wait to vaccinate rabies to save less than 100 baht and just get the local officials to do it instead of taking the dog to a vet when a puppy. The cheaper tick prevention stuff that Thais will opt for, judging from personal experience and countless threads on this forum doesn't work very well in Thailand.  

Funny how things all work out. Arjen and I have formed an unlikely friendship outside of the forum. I think we will continue to have very different thinking but I also think that is a very good thing as it brings in many variables from both sides so covers a lot more bases.

I think the issue with this sub topic was it came off the back of a few other heated discussions. The other issue was it seems most people on this forum went from popular or modern breeds (reliant on master/different kind of intelligence) to Bangkaews so the gap between temperaments was gigantic. I was going from breeds that have been around for thousands of years and were forced to hunt their own food a lot of the time and had to think for themselves whilst working without the constant presence of a master. So the gap was that bit smaller in my mind. Was just looking for any minor details that people could add on top of what I had already seen. 

In the end after sitting down with the family and discussing the legitimate threats (particularly during election times) we went with a Fila. As a previous poster said, a radical dog. The first night we got him he wouldn't let anyone touch him, tried to attack anyone who went near the car and even stood up against the giant Caucasian. 24hrs later wouldn't leave my side. If got up and moved one cushion on the sofa he would get up and follow you. Next day he snapped at the vet nurse trying to worm him, but allowed me to stick my hand down his throat. Considered one of the most faithful dog, and incredibly patient with my two children. the flip side of that is that they are extremely protective - described as xenophobic even with extensive socialisation. 

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Thank you for this very informative and interesting post wildewillie.

 

I'd previously ignored chicken carcasses as I thought it would result in too much bone in their diet, but thinking about it, I only feed them chicken wings a couple of times a week plus cuts of lamb leg (again, a couple of times a week), and there isn't much bone in a slice of lamb leg.

 

I didn't feed them the Mackerel heads as the bones are v tough and sharp, and I though it might cut their mouths, but again, I much appreciated your info. about the head containing more omega 3 - and as one of my dogs has joint problems (fortunately minor) - this is important info.

 

As a result, I'll start feeding them the head too - but unfortunately this will make the task even more revolting as the dog with joint problems has a small mouth, so I'll have to chop it up ????....

I am pretty good with meat, but watching them hack away at a full fish with the golden turmeric paste mixed with fish guts going all over the hanging Mastiff jowls isn't all that pretty haha. 

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Thank you for this very informative and interesting post wildewillie.

 

I'd previously ignored chicken carcasses as I thought it would result in too much bone in their diet, but thinking about it, I only feed them chicken wings a couple of times a week plus cuts of lamb leg (again, a couple of times a week), and there isn't much bone in a slice of lamb leg.

 

I didn't feed them the Mackerel heads as the bones are v tough and sharp, and I though it might cut their mouths, but again, I much appreciated your info. about the head containing more omega 3 - and as one of my dogs has joint problems (fortunately minor) - this is important info.

 

As a result, I'll start feeding them the head too - but unfortunately this will make the task even more revolting as the dog with joint problems has a small mouth, so I'll have to chop it up ????....

I think it would be more the dog is getting more omega 3 by purely consuming more grams of meat which is higher in omega 3 rather than the head actually containing more than the rest of the body. I know I put that terribly but hopefully it is understandable. But if the dog has joint problems a tad more extra fish (the head) over another meat source that may be high in omega 6 is probably a better option re omega 3 to 6 ratio. 

The whole debate is so difficult and confusing. For example, Anatolian Shepherds predominant diet was bran (grain, rice, oats, barley etc) flour, oil and left over vegetables all cooked in a pot until it is a thick soup consistency. In some regions broken corn was/is used over rice. 

Along with that yoghurt, raw eggs and raw meat a few times a week, This is a dog that has been around for 6,000 odd years and is a hardy breed (that is, lower cases of hip dysplasia and bloat than other giant breed dogs. Although as they are becoming more popular...). So these dogs actually do better on carbohydrates. For example, the ratio of meat to wheat in a standard dog like a Doberman maybe 3 to 1, whereas in an Anatolian it is 1 to 3. 

Then again, other livestock guardian breeds that have been around similar amounts of time are very self-sufficient and often hunted and consumed small animals when out in the field for days without seeing their master. 

I think many dogs do well on many different diets. People need to look at more their lifestyle probably and see if diet plays a role in preventing disease. For example, for larger dog owners with dogs that stress or are very keen on food, then dry food (kibble) isn't a great option regarding bloat (raw and veggies probably better). Dogs that have joint problems probably don't need diets that will further inflame the body so cutting back on carbohydrates, grains etc is beneficial. Different dogs have allergies. Probably a case by case basis. I naturally lean towards raw as I tend to own large to giant dogs. With a smaller dog I would probably lean towards a stronger commercially produced/raw mix. 

4 hours ago, jvs said:

Agree with most you said,a dog is no longer a hunter but a scavenger!!Somebody mentioned chicken carcass at 6 baht a piece,i can only find them at 23 baht a kilo.I feed them frozen and raw ofcourse.Frozen solid the dogs can not eat them really fast and it gives their jaws and teeth a good workout,also it cools them down.A good carcass has still a lot of meat left and some even have the head.Also pork ribs at 20 baht a kilo is nice to feed.We have a lot of chickens and ducks roam around our yard and none of the dogs ever chases a bird.That is just another myth out there.Tripe and lung are very pricy here.I used to be able to get a whole cows tail for 40 baht but those days are gone,the dogs loved them.I fed them whole frozen,including skin.

If we get at Makro we will generally fill up a bigger bag you get from the scales counter of 10 and it comes to 64 or 65 baht (hence the 6 baht a piece). They are on special more often than they aren't as they go bad in a fridge quiet quickly (after a few days), which isn't so bad for a dog but 99.99% of sales are directed towards Thai people, not dogs. So just buy bulk and freeze them and take out each day and put in the fridge before giving the dogs. Supermarkets are slightly more expensive, with outside markets sometimes being even more expensive again but well worth it as they have a lot more sizeable carcasses.

*Edit: The issue with feeding fully frozen things is potential pulpitis (where the dog's tooth turns purple and eventually dies). Seeing as most Thai vets will not do root canals or even extraction for that matter, it is something people should probably try and avoid. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+carcass&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2kJinnorfAhUVcCsKHXZQBsAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=657#imgrc=Hj2i2bV-6CvgsM:
 

Can buy anywhere. Supermarkets, markets etc. 

Chicken carcasses are a great meal replacement or something to add to the dog's food...also very cheap (about 6 baht each). Apart from being incredibly easy for the dog to grind down, they are good for the teeth and also contain things like omega 3, glucosamine, chondroitin etc. 

It is why some people opt not to go with the fish oil capsules, as dogs usually get the required amounts in a regular diet, and even more so if fish is in the diet. 

DD, why don't you feed them the head? Will give a higher intake of omega 3 which will counter act the omega 6 (in the rest of the diet) that causes inflammation. Also will be less gross re preparation, less waste and more cost effective. 

 

Thank you for this good information. Very helpfull.

In an other post you suggest pigs heart, This is one of the most expansive parts from pig in Thailand. Even very difficult to purchase, as it has a high demand.

 

I tried now to find "Rumen" (not sure if this is the correct name, it is the first stomach from a cow) But according my wife this is also used, and not same as in my country "waste" 

 

To my understanding it is also healthy to feed dogs, complete, or bigger pieces of meat. So how about feeding a complete chicken? (I suppose without feathers) or a complete fish? Are there then really no problems with the bones and grate?

 

Arjen.

Complete animals are fine for dogs. You will get a lot of people online saying no due to parasites but if we constantly worry about this we will never feed our dogs anything. A few police dogs died not long back in my home country from eating kibble, so I see it as a non-issue. The risk is lower than the benefits the dog will get. A healthy dog should be able to eliminate parasites by itself. If it cannot then you probably need to be looking for other chronic health issues the dog may have. 

We feed complete fish, but our dogs are a bit fussy with which fish. Mackeral they are great with, but on the rare occasion the shops haven't restocked and we get other fish they may or may not eat the fish depending on their mood. Same with chicken...not to mention the numerous silly chickens that decide to end their lives by jumping our fence. 

My Border Collie used to eat whole possums back home. Would always wake up to a yard full of only fur. 

The point of the bigger pieces is to make the dog work to eat. So rather than inhaling food, they take a lot longer to get through it (less chance of bloating). Probably gives the teeth a bit of a clean also. 

The problem with Thailand is what we see as 'waste' or 'off cuts' the Thais see as perfectly fine meat. So drives the prices up.

 

It probably depends on whether one has been through a traumatic experience with a dog/dogs - and so very concerned about whether their (mostly kibble) diet contributed to their demise. ☹️

 

Personally, I'm doing everything I possibly can to ensure that my remaining 2 dogs enjoy the best life possible - and they love the new raw meat diet!

  

Yes, it costs me a small fortune - but with a bit of luck I won't go through the same 'was it my fault?' thoughts in the future....

A good point, especially for large to giant dog owners. After losing probably the smartest dog I will ever own to bloat (Gastric Dilatation Volvulus), I will never feed another 'adult' dog kibble again. Some breeds have bloat stats in the 40% range, so anything that can slightly reduce it happening is important to implement...in this case raw food means eating much slower. 

The point is also important as the vast majority of us don't have 24hr emergency vets five minutes from home like we may have in our developed countries. Not to mention even non-emergency cases are much more difficult to treat here. So best to try and avoid them to begin with.