wildewillie89

Yes, usually the tribunal is in the same area the Governor sits himself. 

Lease I don't think is relevant. If landlord decides not to renew because of this then it is not a landlord the OP would probably want to live under anyway. If the OP doesn't do anything, then he probably wouldn't want to renew his own lease, even if given the option, as the nuisance would still exist. The process doesn't take that long, so the OP isn't exactly wasting time, especially if he has a Mrs who can guide him through the process to make it that much smoother. 

In terms of time. Proper process is usually an initial complaint to Tessaban (can be anonymous). They will do their investigation. If the person calls up and isn't happy with the investigation, then they will fill out a complaints form at the tribunal and receive an appointment for a hearing which may take an hour. No real loss of time when considering what can possibly be achieved. 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is it I can't own a handgun back home, but I could own a dog that will kill without being ordered to ( self motivating weapon )?

I have no problem with large aggressive dogs joining the long list of animals exterminated by humans.

I think it is more complicated than that. Take Australia for example, we got rid of guns so gun related injuries/death went down.

We also introduced breed specific legislation to not allow these proposed dogs. However, according to the Australian Veterinary Association, breed specific legislation has failed to reduce the number of dog attacks. This is an extract from their webpage:

The failure of breed-specific legislation to prevent dog attacks is due to a number of factors:
•    Breed on its own is not an effective indicator or predictor of aggression in dogs. 4,5,6
• It is not possible to determine precisely the breed of the types of dogs targeted by breed-specific legislation by appearance or by DNA analysis.4,5
• The number of animals that would need to be removed from a community to have a meaningful impact on hospital admissions is so high that the removal of any one breed would have negligible impact.4
• Breed-specific legislation ignores the human element whereby dog owners who desire this kind of dog will simply substitute another breed of dog of similar size, strength and perception of aggressive tendencies.4,5,6

Do we really want to exterminate some sub-species of animals due to human ignorance? Many breeds that would probably be included in your comment are quite useful. Some are preventing other animals like penguins, wolves cheetahs etc from becoming extinct as we speak. 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The OP apparently being a farang probably has no connections, unless he married the police chief's daughter.

The thing about corruption in developing countries is that the governing body of the day disallows some to take the focus off others. So the current stance on no corruption is what is being used around the country in these tribunals. These tribunals are the only places local officials are scared of if they get called to them and they haven't done the proper investigations (other than courts). The Army tackles corruption at more local areas and I'm sure we can all guess why. A 'noisy bar in a quiet neighbourhood' is not something the Army are really interested in (as it is minute corruption) so there really is no need for the farang to have connections. The legal and relatively simple channels are all the connections he needs to overcome something like that - if it indeed is like he says it is. 

Don't understand the police reference. The police have no real relevance to a case like this as it is Public Health law. The police only come into it if the local officials/Mayor ask them to act on the fine (if they don't, then the Governor can). The problem most farang find themselves in is they complain to the police (who may be on the take) and wonder why nothing comes from it. Why? Would we complain about a noisy bar back home to the police? No, we complain to the municipality. The odd house party you would complain to the police. It is exactly the same in Thailand. 

I tend to agree. Pay them to keep them off your back, but just remember they cannot protect you like they say. As Public Health law has scope outside of the police. 

1 minute ago, sirmud63 said:

uummmm, that was my post about  my restaurant, and is not a minority area.  loi kroh rd to be precise.

one would be pretty nieve to think im the only one in the city to do this, i know a lot of bar owners that do the same .

as for the rest of your post ,yes , they are the correct chanels to go thru , but ,  corruption here runs very deep , as you know .

Has anyone actually complained about you though through proper channels? Or is it just more of a police throwing their weight around the area type thing? Police cannot guarantee you not being prosecuted, as if people do complain the Governor can give you the exact fine the police can.

Where I live the Mayor is ex-army, knows personally and is even more powerful than the actual army tribunal, but still the Tessaban officials under him fear the tribunal as if they haven't done proper investigations their position will be at risk. It is purely a matter of law as there are always plan b and c on option for the people complaining. Thailand is quite similar to Western countries with nuisance law I have found, but only lawyers or officials seem to know about it (why they live better lives I guess). 

Was why I then included the post about the trucks not paying taxes as they pay police to protect them. The police threatened my local Mayor, found out he was army and let it rest (whereas a trumped up corruption charge/ruin reputation probably would have been on the cards for taking them on). The city police boss also sometimes have people ring up and complain about our Mayor, to which the police respond, he is army and bigger than us. Some places are different, but it more comes down to people failing to go through the right channels. The OP has many options either way if he chooses to go down the path.

42 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

thats not quite how it works. ill tell you what happens from first hand experiance , if you PM me ,ill even tell you the names of the cops.

a monthly payment of 30 000thb to these 2 cops, will buy you immunity from prossecution.

that means you wont be charged for any violations.

heres how it works. 

the army acts on any complaints recived and will raid the premises,and if violations found, will arrest the owner/manager.

they then hand you over to the cops for prossesing and they make out a report giving you the all clear.

small fine to cover the costs,  2000thb,and your free to go .

that happend twice in 6 months to me .

A tiny minority of areas in Thailand may work like that, as they are considered 'special', so the police can do what they want, but I am not sure if the area the OP lives is part of those areas. 

Usually what happens is people do not follow the step by step process (many Thais don't even know what options are available to them). The biggest example of that is they complain to the police, rather than the Tessaban who deal with public health law (ie noise complaints). The tribunal is exactly what a tribunal is, evidence is provided and a violation is found or not found, not so much raids. 

Most areas of the country (with the current political climate) are controlled by the army. As a previous poster wrote with his restaurant about noise complaints, his experience was able to pay police off, but not the army. 

If the OP issue is purely noise complaints, then the army tribunal will contact the Tessaban. The Tessaban must act as the army have told them to (whereas before the Mayor would probably not act out of fear of losing votes/or even on the take themselves). The Tessaban will tell the police to fine the bar. If the police refuse to administer the fine the Tessaban has told them to do (as they are on the take), then the Tessaban official has to contact the Governor. Under public health law, the Governor is allowed to administer the fine the police should have to the bar. 

Even if the local official or Governor is also on the take so does not fine the bar, they will at least take care of the noise. As if they do not, and the party has gone through the proper means of doing things (army tribunal has found the place to be a violation), then the offical and Governor will be found not to be sufficient at their job and end up in a real court (so they will at least stop the noise out of fear of losing their jobs). 

*A note on the tribunal evidence that will be provided. Local Tessaban officials must attend the bar (whether day or night) and use a noise measuring device. If it's over what the law permits, the Tessabarn will a letter to tell the bar to manage the noise within 7-15 days or 30 days. If the bar does not fix or do not follow the law  then they get punished via public health law item 28 "jail not over 3 months or fine 25,000 baht or both". If the Tessaban worker does not provide this evidence, or if it doesn't match the the OP evidence, then the tribunal will ask the Tessaban why. Local Tessaban officials are scared of the army tribunal for this very reason (why it was a good introduction to the country).

34 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

 

The human steak the pitbulls were eating weighed 45kg

'The two dogs - who have since been put down with the family's permission - together weighed twice as much as Stephens, who authorities described as "petite" and weighing 100lbs (45kg).'

They are massive Pitbull. I would think, like the Australian inquiry found, that the dogs have been wrongly identified. Three quarters of Pitbulls are wrongly identified by officials. 

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So you are presuming that heretofore and before being alerted to the existence of said bar by a farang that the Army knows nothing about this bar?

The local army may full well know about the bar, could even be on the take. But for the hundredth time, and it is the last time I say it, unless those people have some serious friends (ministry, assistant pm and pm office), then the official way would be the best way to go about it before making a rash decision to move (if own the place). There is no harm in taking that course of action for a small bar. 

You can chuck in as many hypotheticals as you want, but it is merely gossip so no point continuing it as it is not helping anyone. 

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

It's a noisy bar late night in the Meuang district of Chiang Mai that a lot of people apparently have been told hands off.  Go figure.

Been told hands off by police according to the OP? That is completely different from army, as previous poster have pointed out. They were able to pay off police, not army. 

7 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

In Thailand, no matter how good is someone's connections, there is always someone with better connections.

Well if the proposed ex army bar owner has less connections than someone else, then that would help the OP then wouldn't it? Which was my point to begin with. So I say again, unless he has serious high ranking army friends, then being ex army is irrelevant if go down the proper process of doing something. 

2 hours ago, punchjudy said:

a good example of how these dogs can go from playful pups to man eating beast

 

 

When deputies found the dogs on Friday they were guarding what police at first thought was an animal carcass.

But the body was Stephens', and police say the pit pulls were eating her.

"I observed, as well as four other deputy sheriffs observed," Goochland County Sheriff Jim Agnew said, "the dogs eating the rib cage on the body".

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42418090

Is the article implying the Pitbulls are 45kg? That is not a Pitbull.

If army, then send a letter with attached evidence to the actual general director of the Public Health Ministry, who is an official, not a politician. 

He will then tell the local officials to set specific times and if not followed/enforced then it's a lot of trouble for those officials. 

Even if ex-army by chance, would need to have some great friends in the army for nothing to happen. 

1 hour ago, peergin said:

Could you please state the Army Tribunal's name in Thai? Thank you.

Soon Dham Rong Tham.

ศูนย์ดำรงธรรม 

It is within the same ministry of Tessabans and police (hence why deals with small problems not big enough for courts). Courts in a separate ministry. 

If just renting or have no close Thai friends to guide you through the official systems, then sure, it will probably just be easier to move.

If own the property, then no way would I move for something so small that has a good chance to be fixed. Just take a Thai person with you to understand/guide you through the process. 

Personally, I would complain to the Public Health Department in your Tessaban first, as it is a noise/nuisance issue so comes under public health law. The particular law is something like Por Ror Bor Satharanasuk (manage noise issues). They will do their investigation to cover their <deleted>/plus the law says they have to at least investigate the complaint (or the army will kick them in the backside very hard). So mention that if they aren't sufficient then it will have to go to the army tribunal. The official will push the Mayor to fine the place, but it is possible they wont (votes). If police are on the take then they need to hope they have good relationships with the army tribunal also, as police being on the take means nothing to the army and the army will take great delight in showing them up.  

1 hour ago, mat999 said:

The army option sounds interesting, but are they really likely to get involved with such a small thing? 

The army tribunal is exactly for that, small time things. It was introduced to free up the courts. Could be as something as small as a tiny rice mill in the backyard shed next door making a bit of noise and the army will sort it if the local officials cannot reach an agreement between the parties. 

The other reason why it is set up is that, depending on the location, local officials really can't do that much. To fine someone the Mayor must sign off on it and the police will action the fine. Usually a Mayor will not want to lose votes, or the police will see it as a small thing/or themselves are on the take...hence where the Army option comes in. The army will tear strips off the local officials if they cant provide evidence that they did their own investigation into the issue (the only place local officials are scared of), and will then form their own action of what will happen. 

Not to mention I think it is free of costs, and usually only takes a week or two (depending how busy the area is) for the case to be held. It is a good thing to use against the local officials not acting on these sorts of cases.

Farang have equal rights to Thais with these sorts of things (nuisance law). Many farang have complained in my area and their issues have been resolved. The only farang who say there is no rights are the farang who have never bothered finding out the actual rights available to them.  

3 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

agreed. going to the cops is a waste of time .

report it to the army , they will respond.

i know this to be fact because of twice being raided for noise complaints at my restaurnt in loi kroh rd. 

the army carnt be bourght off with brown envelopes.

Also the police have to respect the army a little bit more. We had issues in our area with trucks refusing to pay the road tax (tax to fix all the pot holes). The trucking companies rang up the local council and threatened them as the council didn't let up on asking them to pay. Then some police rang up the council and said leave them alone (as that specific police department was on the take). The Mayor of the municipality (who is ex army), just said ' it is the law that you pay, research my name and I expect a public apology and payment tomorrow'. The next day the taxes were paid with an apology in front of the council staff.

Army are not great in terms of the overall forward vision of the country, but they can help with many things if people take their 'hating' blinkers off and actually utilise them. 

EMS in my local area are quite fast and caring, just have no real training. Would be similar to a basic first aid course many people have done at some point in their lives. They will call the hospital's ambulance in a situation they are unable to handle. 

Don't remember the actual EMS number (even though it is written on the car), but do have the driver's phone numbers and LINE ids saved in my favourites. A couple of them speak good enough English to know what is going on and know exactly where I live. 

Would change the fact many continually leave their lights on in non-working situations. Therefore cars fail to respect the vehicles in actual emergency situations. Also, I would change the paying of EMS by hospitals to bring patients in. Just creates further dangerous scenarios of EMS racing to get people. Not to mention wastes potentially valuable time of EMS taking patients that do not actually require an EMS so they get the money. 

Government should fund it, they waste a lot of money on some pretty useless projects that could go towards having two trained drivers in each local area. Rather than paying a couple of employees a bit extra to do a first aid course. Maybe the doctors at the local municipality hospitals could also be used by EMS in some areas. The municipality medical centre doctor where I live doesn't do a whole lot and works a minute down the road from where the EMS is, so maybe they could utilise him more (pick him up on the way).

Have used the local EMS. Went into a seizure, they strapped me to the bed and raced me to the hospital. They are not far from my house (on way to city hospital anyway) so even without training it is more valuable than going with the family, especially as have children to look after so would all just be too stressful/time consuming in an emergency event. Plus the Mrs wouldn't be able to lift me up. 

10 hours ago, bleble said:

Actually I am wondering, do you know any training school for dogs in Thailand ?

I know that Thai do not know what I mean, but maybe enough farangs to be customers at dogs training schools ?

Next time when I get a dog, I don't want him a stupid as me !

 

 

Some posters have commented before about puppy schools, so they must exist. Probably in the touristy areas. Even if a dud Thai school, it will be great for socialisation. Hard to socialise dogs in Thai with all the diseases and fearful dogs running around.

One of my current signs vs the sign I want (with the introduction of the Fila I found this one - I doubt any Caucasian signs exist). 

She was about 10 months in that and mangy, but has filled out now and grown her hair back.

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

Signage is always a good idea when you have large dogs, this is what I have on my gate.................

 

 

 

Great signs, looking at something similar. Self made? We just have the no entry sign as we looked all around the city and failed to see any signs relating to dogs. But only Mrs, father-in-law and I have the key (gates are always locked).

18 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Really lovin' the cuddly Pitbull photos guys.

 

Alexis Douglas, Pitbull victim, Melbourne.

.

 

 

 

You could find exactly the same injuries on any dog breed. 

Are you saying to wipe out all dogs? I don't understand the point of your emotive post?

Was it even a Pitbull? The parliamentary report for instance found the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) had overturned 74 per cent of declarations that dogs were pit bulls since 2011.

10 minutes ago, PattayaAngel said:

 

Total bias.  Billions of humans never killed anyone and what???  PitBulls top the charts for attacks and bites by A MILE.

Statistics can be read how you want them to be read in terms of bites. 

Chihuahua's have topped the charts if talking about any of the 4.5 million bites a year.  

According to pet insurers, the most likely dog to bite based on claims is the Labrador. 

38 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Noted that this is from the American Temperament Test Society, but none-the-less. A little something that may surprise the experts on dangerous dogs:

 

Is it just my computers or has the ATTS website been banned in Thailand? I also was going to reference them but could not access it.

Goes off topic as breed specific legislation is an old school of thought. Victoria (Melbourne) is in the process of relaxing laws due to a parliamentary inquiry finding out it isn't the Pitbulls, but the owners. Plus the strict legislation wasn't achieving anything.

Not a Pitbull lover and yes the OP has a right to be concerned, but if we all posted our concerns re dogs and kids in Thailand then there would be a post every minute of the day. In the time the post was made, a conversation and plan to build a better fence could have been had. What was the OP going to do? Take a Thaivisa post to the local cop shop and say, look what this expat said re Pitbulls - go take their dogs off them! Lol.

The post therefore seems more breed specific (a good old fashioned Pitbull bash), as pretty much every breed in Thai is beaten so bites out of fear. 

Even something as simple as 'WebMD', say Pitbulls are not human aggressive, do not lock their jaws, do feel pain and do not just snap out of nowhere (like most breeds dont). Which is why they make useless guard dogs, as they will lick intruders to death.

Yes, the problem with any breed here is the way Thai people bring them up. So even talking to the neighbours about that would be more relevant than posting here asking about the legalities, and then posting a link answering his own question. 

I dont think the controlled dog list is an actual thing anyone bothers with here. Filas are on it and a good chunk of the Thai police force own Fila's and don't register them. 

In my opinion, instead of complaining about the issue here, which achieves nothing, go and speak to the owners and take other neighbours with you. If the OP truly believes there is a concern, so will the other neighbours.