Nigel Garvie

3 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

Not only oil -- the whole damn (Iraq) war was outsourced for profit, from feeding and supplying the troops to building and maintaining the Green Zone in Baghdad to providing security services and mercenaries to selling off Iraqi state assets to private concerns. Halliburton indeed made billions, and Cheney is a war profiteer and a crook. I’m not much for conspiracy theories (and I don’t blame or implicate the Israelis in any of this, beyond their concern for their own security), but the test cases go back to Chile in 1973; Naomi Klein for one has done her homework here, and reading her and others is instructive ...

Yes, you are correct, the whole Iraq War was a commercial venture, for the benefit of Bush and his friends, and even Blair got rewarded with highly lucrative, speech tours of US colleges. Shock doctrine (Naomi Klein) is an eye opener, indeed. I am also not into conspiracy theories, and the point I was making was general rather than specific. However I can't imagine that the Israelis are unhappy with Trump's approach to Iran, and I think that it is naive to think that the Israelis and Russians have no effect on the US, and particularly Trump's foreign policy.  

13 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Once Corbyn and his crew fell into the elephant trap and agreed to call an election. the story wasn't just about Brexit any more. The core objective was to defeat Corbyn and defeated he was, but it is doubtful that the Corbynistas will pass peacefully into the night. And if that is the case, then Labour is done for whatever Boris gets up to. If Keir S just puts some sticking plaster on the problem we will soon enough know.

Good point. Polls now suggest that KS is well ahead of continuity Corbyn (Long Bailey), but time will tell. KS is no fool, his recent statements have suggested that he is moving cautiously towards a nuanced, but more open position of reforming the party. 

Given that numerous Tories claimed to have joined the Labour Party specifically to elect Corbyn (For them the gift that goes on giving) now would be the time to join the Labour Party and vote Starmer or Phillips, to ensure that the LP doesn't descend to the ocean floor as in the amusing HIGNFY video posted by Vogie. ("Enjoy Jon Richardsons take on J Corbyn.")

This slow motion crash has been gifted by the idiocy of Ed Miliband, who made it possible for people to sign up for the party for a minimal fee, and vote in elections shortly afterwards. One way to start the repair would be to require members to be signed up for 6 months to a year before they were entitled to vote.

"Once Corbyn and his crew fell into the elephant trap and agreed to call an election". Elephant traps are a red rag to a bull for Jeremy, tell him where one is and he will leap into it. The anti Brexit majority in the house was destroyed because the LP would not accept a caretaker leader, it was Corbyn or nothing. However given Corbyn, Laverty, Milne, Murphy, and McLusky's impeccable Europhobe credentials, this may have worked out just as they hoped. (They would probably just rather have won the election, but a brain dead lemming could have told them that was never going to happen).

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Rees-Mogg is not a socialist, nor does he pretend to be.

Pretending to be a human being is challenge enough!  ????????

He appears directly defended from the Lizard people from the constellation Draco (Ask David Icke)

1 hour ago, roquefort said:

At least he's electable and has held down a proper job, which is more than can be said for Corbyn. Starmer's problem is that he's a diehard Remainer, and that train has left the station.

Indeed.

It appears that many are stuck in the symplistic "Millionaire Champagne Socialist" groove. Times have changed, anyone with a moderately sized house anywhere near the centre of London, is a millionaire. Champagne is no longer particularly expensive (It is just pish water to me, tastes foul, if you want a good bubbly white try Blanquette de Limoux). Socialists are no longer expected to live in squalor to prove how noble and self sacrificing they are. The Tories are awash with millionaires, indeed multi millionaires, many with inherited wealth (Starmer was a hard working top lawyer and DPP, he earned the bulk of his money).

Try removing the beam from your own eyes before making a fuss about the motes in the eyes of others.

"Starmer's problem is that he's a diehard Remainer, and that train has left the station." The train has left the station it is true, but I can't imagine that it will be a big issue in 5 years time. I expect that leavers will by then be wondering how they could possibly have been taken in by Farage et al, as UK plc continues to decline (Overtaken by India already, and about to be pushed into 7th place by France). Why they should blame Starmer anymore than any other person who supported Remain I can't see. If a week is a long time in politics, how long is 5 years? 

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Cons in HoC, do they listen when Starmer has the floor, or do they just switch off?

same same

SNPs in HoC, listen or switch off?

 

 

Surprise surprise, the Labour Party may actually want to get elected next time. 

But does anyone listen to the Conservative front bench, when they are indulging in their pompous rants, they surely switch off. If the alternative to hearing Boris in full on lying mode was to be run over by a tank, many would prefer the tank option.

50 minutes ago, blazes said:

Welcome back, Tony Blair.

 

Lead us not into the Weapons of Mass Destruction that Brussels' regulations have become.....

I read that as "Lead us not into the Wetherspoons of mass degeneration". I must get my specs checked.

You'd have to spend a long time in there till you reached a state where you could no longer see the difference between Tony Blair and Keir Starmer.

"killed U.S. civilian contractor and injured four U.S. service members and two members of the Iraqi Security Forces near the oil-rich city of Kirkuk.'

Why are they there, for the oil of course, why else did they bother invading in the first place. Having been the direct cause of 100s of 1000s of deaths, and the rise of ISIS, the US still want their oil. Oh yes Sir. 

Iranian Shia militia are getting more unpopular in Iraq,  but what is Hezbollah doing there 1000s of miles from Lebanon. I think that is just for external consumption - keep the Israelis happy maybe. I really can't imagine Iraqis being happy with Hezbollah in their country, and certainly not the Kurds.(Who I believe are not Shia).

2 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

And Cambodia wasnt even an enemy!!

Hardly surprising that Cambodia gave us Pol Pot, and massive genocide as a result.

The man who ordered the bombing won the Nobel peace prize (Henry Kissenger - the war criminal). Irony is dead.

3 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Unconditional loyalty, just as the Lord commanded or death.  I suspect the death part will come after King Trump is rigged by Pooty again.

 

Deuteronomy - Chapter 13t

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9977/jewish/Chapter-13.html

 

Basically, Kill your family and friends if they don't believe in the Jewish god!

 

 

The Old Testament is certainly one of the foulest books ever written. Complete instructions for genocide are contained in the book of Numbers, basically kill them all but keep the virgins for your own pleasure. Then there is the concept of original sin, how twisted do you have to be to come up with that one, well done Judaeism. . All three Abrahamic faiths have  been disgusting at different stages. Where are the Malachites and Midianites, looks like the Palestinians are destined for a similar fate. Medieval Christian torture knows no equal for human cruelty in anything I have read. Fundamentalists of Islam are currently doing everything they cant go keep up the awful reputation of Abramahic faiths. I don't suppose you can say thank God for Bhuddism, but I am grateful for at least one set of beliefs that sees the sky fairy myth as laughable.

What is behind this obsession with abortion? Basically the same thing that is behind the Burka, and the vast number of religious rules that have been created solely to control women. A bunch of sick old men in ludicrous robes or flash suits, realise that they need to brainwash men and women into believing that there is something "holy" about their beliefs that cannot be questioned. I never cease to be amazed how many millions of women all over the world - like a bunch of cows on tranquillisers - accept being exploited this way. Such is the endless success of conmen with sheep, in politics as well as religion.

   On 12/21/2019 at 9:43 AM,  RuamRudy said: 

If you look at the demographics, 18-25 year olds are by far the greatest supporters of independence. There are also, I presume, the most international in outlook and the most embracing of global youth culture. They are the driver of independence.

Despite spurious replies to your comment, I think this map (Which I just found) backs you up completely. An upper age voting limit, until you have a doctors certificate ruling out senile dementia would be a good idea.

23 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

 Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane. Then there is defacing my flag with a circle of yellow stars and the refusal to answer simple questions about defence, money/currency (ever tried to change Scottish notes into any other currency). The books do not tally and using figures when oil was high then ignoring figures like defence etc wow. Only a bigoted SNAT that now disgusts me. The sad thing now is the grass roots for support Scottish independence is growing in England as seeing the bigots and venom they are saying "F...... Off" and I don't blame them Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out. 

"Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane"..................... No your statement is insane, if the UK didn't have sovereignty how would they have achieved Brexit. 

"Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out." ..........this is a very nasty thing to say about the English, to refer to their country as "A cancer", however vile and crooked a bunch of MPs they chose,  is still an unpleasant choice of words.

2 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

I would vote for a black, Muslim  lesbian conservative before I would vote for Bernie Sanders or any other leftist.

 

 

I'll tell her to get in touch!

14 hours ago, jayboy said:

Actually you described all Tory voters which would include hundreds of thousands of Scots and many members of this forum - as scum and as indecent people.

 

Happy New Year

Kindly re-read the phrases "Not the voters themselves" and "Many of them" in my earlier post.

Hopefully we can leave that there.

Merry Christmas

12 hours ago, rhyddid said:

Warren is the best candidate to antagonize Trump, for sure they will try to slash garbage on her, indeed look what Trump has done !

Agreed - best candidate for sure 

1) Not old and failing like Biden and Sanders.

2)  Well to the left (I.e. centre in European terms) but not ideologically besotted like Sanders.

3) Not gay - I doubt the US is ready, most countries aren't, lesbians are more acceptable it appears, I've no idea why. He appears a bit of a wimp also, not Trump beating material.

4) Highly intelligent and articulate

5) Not an also ran like Yang

A week is a long time in politics, I'm guessing she is far from done.

Warrens polling figures went way up and have now dropped a fair amount, however she is still clearly in the top 3 .

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

If hitting a nerve means recoiling from dishonest humbug, so be it.

 

You also repeat the foolish nonsense from your last post.Actually one of the many really admirable aspects of Scotland is that it is almost entirely free of the English curse of class prejudice.If you are indeed a Scot I would have thought you would be proud of this.

So you attack me with the words ".. semi literate boorishness, massive stupidity, and now foolish nonsense". Heavens you must think and awful lot of yourself to write that stuff.

Try to remember that the rules of the forum (As I understand them anyway) are that forceful debate is acceptable, but personal insults are not.

I certainly didn't mince my words when I criticised certain politicians (For which I make no apologies), however the response should be to challenge the criticism, not insult the messenger. That says more about you than it does about me.

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

It's not only the semi literate boorishness of this statement but also its massive stupidity.It was not the "toff scum " that won the election for the Tories but ordinary working people.Indeed in London at least the well educated/upper middle class were on the whole Labour supporters.There is also a large constituency of Scottish conservatives who would be surprised to hear themselves described as Tory scum or indecent people.

Ho Ho, I must have hit a nerve.

It was Johnson's MPs and rich backers I was referring to - not the voters themselves, I should have made that clear. 

I have met plenty of Scottish gentry and conservatives over the years, toff scum describes many of them very well. Many are people who think that for some strange reason they are better than other folk. 

I note I missed a word out, however "Semi literate" is pretty pompous. Are you TV's resident language critic?

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Isn't part of the cry for Scottish independence the same cry for nostalgia that dominates brexit? Good old days are not coming back.

Interesting point, but rather imaginative interpretation of what I said. 

Some degree of nostalgia , is natural to all of us older TV posters. There are indeed things I miss from the Scotland of my teenage years, but it is really my teenage years and my 20s, themselves that I miss most (The bits I was unstoned/sober enough to remember now). 

I agree that a sad cornerstone of Brexit is to go back to the Britain of our youth.

HOWEVER:-

I have no desire for an independent Scotland to go back to the past, that is impossible anyway.  We are looking to make a better future for our families and friends in forward looking, internationalist, immigrant friendly (Even English!!!), decent society, with socialist (But not looney left for most) values. Probably best to call them social values. 

The foul grossness of Bojo and his toff scum followers fill us with horror, a view shared by decent people all over the world

Nostalgia is not what it used to be - as they say. Indeed .. "You were lucky.....when I were young............etc

14 hours ago, vogie said:

Actually you are wrong, but please check it out yourself.

 

Incidentally cul de sac means dead end street, literally 'bottom of a sack' from the latin culus meaning bottom, can you see where I'm coming from here?

I did check it out, I was correct. ...."Xenos (Greek: ξένος, xénos, plural xenoi) is a word used in the Greek language from Homer onwards. The most standard definition is "stranger". However, the word, itself, can be interpreted to mean different things based upon context, author and period of writing/speaking, signifying such divergent concepts as "enemy" or "stranger", a particular hostile interpretation, all the way to "guest friend"' one of the most hallowed concepts in the cultural rules of Greek hospitality."

Incidentally cul de sac means dead end street, literally 'bottom of a sack' from the latin culus meaning bottom, can you see where I'm coming from here? ................Sorry, can't be arsed to work it out!