dentonian

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Is this the 5 posts argument or is it the entire thread argument?

(Apologies to John Cleese)

 

Don't know how that pdf got attached.

I deleted it as soon as I saw my post.

11 minutes ago, hgma said:

I have always thought that i needed to go to local police station to report my (new)_ presence  in town.

That's the procedure to follow if there isn't an Immigration office within your province.

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Thank god for that, otherwise I'd have to relinquish my citizenship.

Have you any idea the procedure a Thai has to go through to visit Australia.

Countless documents and translations and of course an understanding of their Immigration policies.

Australian Immigration tells them nothing, it's for them to find out

In retrospect it's so easy to visit Thailand and your complaining  about one form that nobody told you about and blaming Immigration.

Just now, giddyup said:

Anyone know the procedure for obtaining a Proof of Income letter from the Australian Embassy?

 

Perhaps you should have Googled it.

I did, I googled it, but the information wasn't complete.

I'm not Australian by the way.

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Go away, you are just becoming a nuisance.

Read my post #52.

I took a clip from the Immigration Act, just for you.

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Jeesus, do you walk on water as well? If only we were all as perfect as you eh? Be interesting to do a poll on how many made themselves familiar with all  the immigration laws before they came. Oh of course then there are all  the legal laws that you would have to make yourself familiar with. Not sure I have enough time left to read all that.

Well I knew they drove on the left here, but Immigration didn't put a note in my Passport either.

Do think I should complain?

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 

 You are just repeating the same old. Are you suggesting every falang has to wade through god knows how many pages there might be of immigration law (and is it a law or just a requirement?) so he is totally aware of his obligations, when it would be a simple matter to have that info tucked into your passport on arrival? Visa or extension of stay, you understood perfectly what I was getting at, but you prefer to be a pedantic wan*er. Here's a little task for you, show me the relevant "law" in the Immigration law book. I'm sure there will also be many others who have commented here interested besides me.

And therein lies your problem, you want someone to show you, or tell you, or do the work for you.

Google it for yourself!

And yes an Act, is law.

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

You got some pretty good responses in your last thread

 

 

Yeah, but they don't all bring their Mothers with them Crossy.

Besides, she told him never to trust strangers.

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

Are you serious? How many people read an Immigration Act before arriving in a country? If reporting is a requirement, easy enough to give that info on arrival.

Yes deadly serious.

I find out as much as I can about any Country before I visit it.

Last thing I want is to watch myself on an episode of  'Banged up Abroad'

Thailand couldn't make it any easier for Tourist or resident expats to stay here.

The laws are available in English, easy to understand and easy to follow.

I may not agree with them all, but I do have to respect their laws in their Country.

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

You are missing the point. If it is a requirement to report, people should be advised. Is that clear enough for you? I have a notice stapled into my passport every 90 days that tells me when to report next, I also have a stamp in my passport that tells me when I have to renew my visa, immigration doesn't keep it a secret from me.

Your the foreigner visiting a foreign Country, it's for you to find out the laws of that Country, not for them to tell you.

Who told you where to apply for a visa for Thailand?

Who told you where your Immigration office was?

Who told you to drive on the left?

Does somebody have to tell you everything...........Have you heard of 'Google'.

The information is all there, but easier to blame someone else for your ignorance.

By the way the stamp from Immigration doesn't tell you when to renew your 'Visa.

If you bothered to read the stamp, it states 'Extension of stay permitted until (date).

Now your going to tell me Immigration didn't tell you it wasn't Visa!

It's OK I understand, nobody has told you the difference between a Visa and an Extension of stay.

6 hours ago, dotpoom said:

If as you say,.... it is not the residents responsibility to do the report....then why would he be fined 2000 Baht for not reporting.....as stated earlier. In any case, he is not the owner or house master whatever way a particular Immigration Office decides to interpret the rules

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned

Section 4 : In this Act :

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

The tenant, who would no doubt also be the chief possessor as well, can be defined as the House Master and the person responsible to file the TM30 and to receive the fine for not complying.

I know a foreigner arrived 30 years ago on a Tourist Visa.

Married to a Thai.

Never had any money to pay a fine, let alone a ticket back home.

So his choice is to hand himself in and spend infinity in IDC, or stay at home with the wife.

What would you do?

36 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Absurd.  Totally off the wall absurd.  Condos can be rented with online reservations just like any hotel or guest house.  They're listed on Agoda and all the other online sites just like hotels.  How the heck is a tourist supposed to know that there's this critical difference and about any of this!!  "Their choice" my aching back!!!  How do they even know, genius??  Stop posting nonsense.

 

Furthermore, just try and complete a TM30 as a mere guest without the active cooperation of the owner!  And most owners will either claim ignorance - and may even actually BE ignorant -  themselves or simply leave the whole matter in your hands.  Some owners may not be that anxious to have evidence of rental income being placed in govt hands.  And Jomtien will happily apply the fine to you instead of the owner, since you're the "possessor".

 

Glad to see this discussion finally taking place.  Not even UJ able to address the ridiculousness of this or the impossible situation it can put a hapless tourist in.  But labelling this a "tourist choice" wins the award for ignorance.

 

'A classic example of fire-aim-ready and a real gotcha' for totally unsuspecting and unaware tourists, or even partially aware tourists who're unable to navigate the strange TM30 business which is set up for owners, not renters.

The only thing that's absurd and off the wall is complaining about filing a form.

In your ignorance, if you bothered to check the Immigration Act, you'd find that the tenant can file a TM30.

There is absolutely no need for a Tourist to visit an Immigration office, let alone be fined.

Address reporting is a condition of the requirements in Thailand, nothing ridiculous about it.

If you don't like it you know what to do.

49 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Don't be ridiculous, no one is talking about the Immigration Act, but a requirement to report to immigration that could be in the form of a notice attached to your passport at the airport. What is a visitor supposed to do, go to immigration on their first day in Thailand and ask them if there is anything they are required to do? Absurd.

Well it might surprise you but where do you think the law on address reporting is written?

3 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

My brother comes to visit. He is a tourist, but not staying in a hotel. He stays in a condo owned by a friend who is in Australia. He will notify his Thai address on the arrival card and give to immigration at the airport. That should be really all a tourist has to do for their 10 day holiday.

However, since the condo owner is abroad, my brother will have to spend a day in Chaeng Watthana to again report his address, which he already did on arrival, just this time on a TM30 form? And if, god forbid, he intends to travel outside the province and stay at a friend's house, he would have to again do such a TM30 form and spend another day traveling to and waiting at the corresponding immigration office?

If the purpose of such bureaucracy is to impede tourism to Thailand, then they have succeeded and done a good job. If the purpose of such bureaucracy is to know the whereabouts of terrorists and criminals, then they should reexamine their thinking process.

I would guess at least 80% of (real) tourists would stay at a registered hotel or guest house, who report their presence, so other than completing their arrival card have nothing more to do with Immigration.

If your brother chooses to stay at a Condo (private residence) and the owner isn't available, then he'll have to accept the responsibility of filing the TM30. Alternatively find somewhere else to stay, but that's his choice.

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Deliberately not advising people in order to collect fines is totally immoral in my book. What would it cost to include information of your obligations to report along with your landing card when you arrive?

Your the foreigner. It's your responsibility to find out before you enter a foreign Country.

I don't any Country in the world that hands out their Immigration Act to foreigners when entering.

How about if they made you read it, and sign you understand.

Could you imagine the queues!

Did you make an appointment.

Can't find any information on their website.

Anyone know the procedure for obtaining a Proof of Income letter from the Australian Embassy?

15 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Please explain which part of this is "grey" - "The term “work” in Thai law is defined very broadly, covering both physical and mental activities, whether or not for wages or other form of compensation. Even volunteer or charity work requires a work permit in Thailand."

 

All work requires a work permit and the associated permission to stay.

If it's not black or white, then it's grey.

You performed a physical and mental activity to post your reply.

Would you consider that 'work' and requiring a work permit.

Let's not be silly, this topic has been discussed many times on TV, never reaching a definitive conclusion.

Use discretion and common sense. If it feels wrong, it probably is.

If your activity can be described as a 'profession' then you clearly need a work permit.

16 hours ago, yayo said:

Still waiting for the Embassy to call.

I guess I will just visit the Dept. of Labour then when I stay in Thailand and Try to get the WP based on the things I pointed out earlier.

 

Because if I dont have a WP I am not allowed to do anything related with work or not even helping my wife or family in their work?

It's a grey area what you can and cannot do and what is classified as work.

Even with a work permit it specifies your job role and place of work.

Helping in a family business, even unpaid, would be classified as working.

Working or your own house or car does not constitute working in my opinion, but others will disagree.

2 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

I would hazard a guess that they only do this if the extension renewal falls within the 90 day reporting window.

No, my Immigration office have always reset my 90 day report to 90 days from the date of filing an extension, even when it's been way outside the window for doing my next 90 day report.

I've gone 5 months without making a 90 day report, but not saved anything because I've had to make a visit to the office to do the extension in-between anyway.

This year my extension is due 25th July, my 90 day report 25th June.

I'll go on 25th June to file for a new extension. I can guarantee my next 90 day report date will be 23rd October.

21 hours ago, dinsdale said:

When I got this stamp, Immigration said overstay to me. I think it was 8 to 10 days past the 90 days. I'm just saying what they said to me. Bt2000 fine, stamp in passport.

Translated it states;

This person does not report a stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 days.

Perform a fine comparison.

It's a blotch recorded in your passport, as a failure to comply with the regulations.

7 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

"Being married to a Thai allows you the right to work, you'd just need a work permit from the Dept of Labour." - No it does not !

 

Having the correct visa or extension and associated work permit gives you the right to work !

Your correct, but the OP stated he has already applied for a Non Imm O ME Visa based on marriage.

23 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

. Extensions of visa

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

  11 hours ago, Ginkas said:

Nonsense.

You cannot be on "overstay" for failing to do a 90 day report.

You're on overstay if you stay longer than your 'permission to stay' date.

You can be fined for not doing the 90 day report but that is usually 2,000 baht.

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Really. In my 14 years here I've fkd up a couple of times for being late with my 90 days and been done for overstay (pay money, stamp in passport). But maybe you know better than me. 

You were certainly fkd up then.

Ginkas is perfectly correct, your are only guilty of filing a late report, not overstaying.