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dentonian
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Posts posted by dentonian
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2 hours ago, stevenl said:
Or Op could simply fly out of Thailand and fly back in, as has been suggested already. First fly out on foreign passport, then enter again on Thai passport.
If you read the full thread Steven, in some cases doing just that is what's caused the problem.
Flying out on the foreign passport means entering the foreign passport number on the departure card.
When entering the details on the arrival card don't match those of the Thai passport.
Departure/arrival cards are barcoded for an automated system.
It should be correctable at entry, bot some IO's have refused entry on the Thai passport, instead only allowing entry on the foreign passport which was used to exit in error. That brings us back to square one.
I can only liken the similarity of this situation to the 'Hole in the bucket' song. (Dear Henry, dear Henry)
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19 minutes ago, sumrit said:
While it is always possible for a Thai to exit Thailand on a Thai passport after entering on a foreign one it is definitely not advisable.
If she does that after entering and staying in Thailand on her foreign passport it will create major problems.
Agreed!
Exiting on her Thai passport will leave her entry on the Foreign passport stagnant and will create an overstay situation.
Immigration though will allow exit on either passport (although stevenl has a different opinion)
24 minutes ago, sumrit said:By entering on her foreign passport she is considered a foreigner while staying in Thailand and, by not exiting on the same passport, she (as a foreigner) is still registered as being in Thailand. Overstay (on that foreign passport) will then come into the equation and (possibly) a ban from entering Thailand on that foreign passport in the future.
Some have also been refused entry on their Thai passport because they exited on their foreign passport.
This is the crux of this topic.
Although many logical suggestions have been put forward,, until a Thai who is refused entry on their Thai passport stands up to an IO and demands their constitutional rights as a Thai national...........then we won't know the answer to the problem.
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2 hours ago, stevenl said:
Please read and understand a discussion.
Somebody claimed she should exit Thailand on her Thai passport, even though she entered on her foreign one. She can not.
Please don't speak for me and tell others what I mean, you have been wrong twice now.
Wow there Tiger!
I wasn't the one that jumped into this topic on page 4.
If you go back and read the whole topic, you'll find my friends Thai son had a similar experience to the OP's wife (nss70)
That is Thai refused entry on a Thai passport.
I've already had meetings with Immigration at local and regional level about this issue, so I'm far deeper into this subject than you or your opinions.
QuoteSomebody claimed she should exit Thailand on her Thai passport, even though she entered on her foreign one. She can not.
Yes she can. You are wrong!
There is a precedence of what passport needs to be presented to the airline check in (the foreign one) and what needs to be presented to Immigration (the Thai one).
Not using the correct sequence has led to some Thais not being allowed entry into Thailand on their Thai passport because they left on their foreign passport. It's a scenario that shouldn't happen, but has.
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14 hours ago, wolf2017 said:
My bank statement ( initially submitted 3 months statement, later was asked to submit 6 months statement. I used this bank account to do very small amount transactions, like sometimes 1000 rs or sometimes go upto 20,000 rs. just maintained the minimum balance of 1500 rs every month, that the bank requires.. Finally presented a closing balance of 200,000 INR ( indian rupees) The thai requirement of closing balance was only 40,000 Indian rupees. I presented 160,000 indian rupees extra.
I think therein lies the reason of refusal.
Bank statements averaging just above the minimum the bank requires, 1,500 rupees = 797 baht.
Although you supplied further evidence of 200,000 rupees, they were suspicious of how you obtained the extra funds, especially when supplying a tax return showing an annual income of only 240,000 rupees.
Perhaps working from home you only deposit the minimum required to avoid tax, the remainder in cash.
That unfortunately works against you when apply for Visas.
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9 hours ago, ajarngreg said:
It's not true and you can check plenty of other websites, for example here:
http://driving.information.in.th/driving-licence.html
A Non-Immigrant visa is needed for the first- a 1 year, and again for the 5 year license. Some departments are even asking for a work permit.
That's a commercial website and the information is incorrect/outdated in many ways.
For example:
Valid international driver's license plus signed photocopy or translated regular driving licence from the applicant's home country, certified by Embassy or consulate. (if available).
Absolute nonsense. If your home Country licence is in English, that is acceptable to obtain a Thai licence.
An International driving permit is only required when your home Country licence is not in English.
The only circumstance where a translation and certification may be required is someone holding a home Country licence not in English and not holding an International driving permit.
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On 21/04/2017 at 6:59 AM, stevenl said:
You mean that website where one year licenses are mentioned?
But even there, if you read they only mention non immigrant as a requirement for a 5 year license, which is correct. One year licenses can and are regularly issued on visa exempt entries and tourist visas, the possible hickup being the ability to get a certificate of residence. But that can nearly always be done also.
That's the one Steven!
You don't expect them to alter the website to reflect it's now a 2 year temporary licence until their ready do you
It actually states 'Visa' for the first 2 year licence.
My DLT centre won't issue a licence of any kind on a Visa exempt.......that isn't a Visa.
They won't issue the 5 year licence unless your on a Non Imm or extension, otherwise they re-issue the 2 year one again.
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8 hours ago, ajarngreg said:
Where did you read that about a 2 year license, please? It usually starts with a one year permit, then you can apply for a five year DL.
I've got my licenses for a long time and met a lot of people who all had to show a Non Immigrant visa. Except those who found a way to pay some money under the table.
They first started issuing the new 2 year temporary licence around 2 years ago.
Type 1 - Temporary Private Car: This licence is issued to those who have successfully completed the driving test. This licence is valid for a period of 2 years
Type 2 - Private Car: This licence is issued to those who have possessed Temporary Licence for a period of 2 years. This licence is valid for a period of five years. Private Lifetime Car is no longer issued to new applicants but remains valid to existing holders.
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30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:
There is no reason for her to go on an overstay. She can go to an immigration office and get a one year extension of stay with proof she is Thai.
How ridiculous a situation is that though!
Thais citizen requires an extension to legally remain in her own Country, to avoid overstay, fine or deportation.
It's like the UK insisting I need a Visitor Visa to legally enter and remain in the UK again.
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6 minutes ago, Mattd said:
In this particular instance it was also compounded as she entered Thailand on her British passport around 2 years ago, renewed her Thai passport then and exited with the British passport, so the passport was issued within Thailand and not at an overseas embassy as I wrongly thought before, apologies for that!
Still shouldn't have made any difference, however, it would be interesting to know how many other Thai's have experienced issues like this when their passports were renewed overseas.
If she entered on her UK passport, she would have received a 30 day Visa exempt stamp. Entered as a foreigner entering on their database. (Arrival card details)
She was correct to depart on her UK passport to record her as exiting from Thailand as a foreigner. (Departure card details)
According to Joe she should be allowed to enter next time using her Thai passport as a Thai national, which I agree with.
However an IO becomes confused as to how a Thai citizen managed to leave the Country, has no exit stamp and is offering an arrival card with the departure part still intact.
Unaware how to understand or resolve the issue, their database shows she left on a UK passport, so they insist she uses that to enter again, which is totally wrong.
My argument here is that whilst I agree with Joes theory, in practice once the wrong passport has been used to exit/enter many IO's seem unable to deal with the situation and correct the problem.
7 minutes ago, Mattd said:I still reckon she should test the system and depart on her Thai passport and forget the British one for travel to and from Thailand (except for showing to an airline at check in) worse case, they make her use the British one.
Ubonjoe, in your opinion, could the authorities arrest her, detain / fine her for overstay on the British passport seeing as she is Thai and therefore is entitled to be here?
In the case of my friends son, he was fined for overstay (another illegal action) and he now obtains an annual extension based on being a dependant of his Thai mother. (They didn't challenge it)
I have come to the conclusion that for those caught up in this ridiculous situation, to do exactly as you suggest.
Completely ignore the fact they entered the Thai on a foreign passport.
Use the Thai passport to exit and enter in future.
How can they fine, arrest or detain a Thai citizen for legally being in their own Country or being on overstay.
OK so the Thai may have made an error leaving on a foreign passport, but Immigration have no right to refuse entry on her Thai passport, so in my opinion an IO created the problem by not being aware of the Thais constitutional rights.
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1 hour ago, stevenl said:
No, I was not, I was referring to her not having entered on her foreign passport, and therefore being required to exit Thailand on her foreign passport.
She entered on a Thai passport.........correct.
Nobody would request she left on a foreign passport............only check in would need to see her foreign passport.
Showing Immigration the foreign passport and completing a departure card with the foreign passport details is what's caused the problem when they try to re-enter on their Thai passport, with no exit stamp, or details on their database of the Thai ever leaving the Country.
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23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:
I think you are confusing info given to you by immigration about trying to change an entry done with a foreign passport to one using a Thai passport so a person could remain in the country and then leave using the Thai passport. That can certainly not be done.
I don't think it it will effect doing an entry on a Thai passport in the future if they entered and departed on a foreign passport. I can assure you many people have done it.
I'm sure they have Joe. Common sense dictates that.
However some have encountered an unwilling or uncooperative IO who stubbornly insists on giving a 30 day visa exempt in the foreign passport on entry because they departed on the foreign passport.
I absolutely 100% agree with you that in this situation you should ask for a senior IO to get the problem resolved immediately.
For those that didn't, they now appear to be going around in circles with Immigration lacking the knowledge how to fix the problem.
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13 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:
That is what I meant - effectively she tests the system by flying out of BKK to, say, Kuala Lumpur and exits by swiping her Thai passport through the gate at Suvarnabhumi and again when she returns from KL. That way the passport is "activated" with evidence of departure and re-entry, and she should never again give a Thai IO sight of her UK passport.
According to the OP, her passport was issued in Thailand on a previous occasion when she entered and left as a visitor on her UK passport. The problem arose this time when she arrived at Phuket, and perhaps if she does try to activate her Thai passport as I suggest, she should avoid Phuket in case she has the misfortune to run across the same idiot.
That still wouldn't remove them from Immigrations database when they were previously entered on a foreign passport.
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1 hour ago, Mattd said:
You are missing my point, so let's take this as an example,
A Thai with dual nationality leaves Thailand on a Thai passport, via the e-gates, say a year ago, whilst away the original Thai passport expires, so a replacement Thai passport is issued by an overseas embassy, the same Thai now returns back to Thailand with this new Thai passport and tries to enter via the e-gate, would the system allow entry, would it have connected the two passports together?
No, you would need to use the old passport you departed on.
The airline may want to see a valid travel document though, so may need the new passport.
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35 minutes ago, ajarngreg said:
What rules? Lol
The ones your local DLT apply.
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8 minutes ago, Mattd said:
Yes, this, sadly, seems to be the case as it stands now, unfortunately she did not, so could not produce the old passport, doesn't deflect from the fact that she is Thai and they should not have refused her entry on her Thai passport, as per my above post, what is difficult to create the software that automatically links the old passport number with the new, so when a Thai in a similar situation enters Thailand then the IO will see this link and the previous exit from Thailand as soon as the new passport details are entered in to the system at arrivals? With the new e-gate systems being used, then it stands to reason that this process must happen, otherwise any Thai renewing their passport anywhere but Thailand would not be able to get in via an e-gate?
We are told that Immigration link old and new passports together by name and DOB for Foreigners, hence why getting a new passport is useless if somebody has a poor record immigration wise, hell, if they can do it it for us, surely they can do this for their own people!
Even with a Thai e-passport, it won't let you enter if you left on a foreign passport.
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4 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:
A valid Thai passport can be issued to a Thai citizen in another country at the Thai embassy there.
That passport will have no exit stamp in it because it will be issued in the foreign country at the Thai embassy/consulate there.
A Thai can legally enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport. .
In the same way a U.S. citizen can get a new U.S. passport in the U.S. embassy in Bangkok, and a U.K. citizen can get a new or replacement U.K passport at the U.K. embassy in Thailand , a Thai legally in the U.S or the U.K. can get a new or replacement Thai passport from a Thai consulate in those countries and enter Thailand on those passports.
It is done all the time.
In that situation, the Thai should carry both passports.
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25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:
That is only possible at some border crossings. It cannot be done by air.
Thais don't need a passport to visit most neighbouring Countries by land. ID card is sufficient.
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4 hours ago, stevenl said:
Getting a DL is even possible on a visa exempt entry.
" It's sad that people here post wrong information, "
According to the DLT website a Non Imm Visa is required even for the first temporary 2 year licence.
https://www.dlt.go.th/en/one-year-license/
However the only thing consistent in Thailand is the inconsistency, so it really depends whether your local DLT centre enforces the rules or not.
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2 hours ago, stevenl said:
If she leaves her UK passport at home she will not be allowed to leave Thailand.
1 hour ago, Mattd said:I'm not so sure that is correct, if she is still currently in Thailand, then she should be able to travel out on her Thai Passport, there should be no reason why not, as stated on several posts, she is Thai, so is quite entitled to travel on her Thai passport,
Thais don't need a passport to visit neighbouring Countries. ID card is sufficient.
stevenl was referring to not being able to return to the UK.
The airline wouldn't allow check-in if she didn't have a UK passport, or UK Visa in her Thai passport.
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4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:
That is a problem because people allow it to happen. If they stood up to immigration it would not happen since there is no rule or regulation to support the denial.
You apparently have been given wrong info it you think there is any basis for a denial of entry for a Thai using their Thai passport because they departed on a foreign passport.
I have read many topics and posts about this over many years now and in almost every case I can recall if the person refused to be stamped in on their foreign passport they were allowed to enter on their Thai passport.
I have advised people to ask immigration for a written formal denial of entry on their Thai passport if they have a problem. I can assure it would not be given and that person would enter on their Thai passport.
In theory you are correct.
However very few Thais will stand up or question an IO, or any government official. They don't like confrontation or loss of face.
If they left Thailand using their foreign passport, then they made the initial mistake.
Immigration will point to this fact and use it against them, perhaps because they don't know what to do in this situation, but in any event they don't and cannot refuse entry to a Thai national........they just allow entry on the foreign passport which makes their job easier.
I doubt a Thai would be sufficiently aware of their own laws as a base of argument.
Theory is one thing, fact is another, and as already demonstrated in this thread, their are Thais who have fallen foul of this ridiculous situation and have been forced to enter on their foreign passport. If the passport number, arrival card number don't match what's in their database then Immigration are as much use as a wet lettuce.
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1 hour ago, Evilbaz said:
The departure card which is the back half of the entry card, issued on arrival, is cancelled on departure.
If leaving on a Thai passport a departure card is filled out on departure and cancelled on arrival.
This is the opposite procedure to entering on a foreign passport.
Read what Joe stated and my reply.
If they entered on a foreign passport they would complete an arrival card, thus depart on the departure card.
When they try to re-enter on a Thai passport there is no record of them leaving on a Thai passport,
On 18/04/2017 at 4:40 PM, ubonjoe said:If they enter on a a foreign passport they have to leave on it. After they leave on it they can re-enter on their Thai passport.
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11 hours ago, ajarngreg said:
Most, if not all banks in LOS want to see a Non Immigrant visa to open up a bank account and also the the Land Transport offices are eager to see such a type of visa.
It's sad that people here post wrong information,
Yes it is!
Just read a Banks website for required conditions to open a bank account first.
Bangkok bank will open a Savings account with debit card, even on a Visa exempt entry provided you meet their criteria.
As the OP is from the UK, BKK would be first option to do cheaper transfers through the London branch.
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If you hold a tourist visa or non-immigrant (long-stay) visa
Long-stay foreigners including all Non-immigrant visas (B, ED, EX, F, IB, IM, M, O, O-A, R, RS, D, F, and SE) and Diplomatic Officer Courtesy, but excluding MT, S and LA.
Tourists include the following visa types: Tourist, Transit, Visa on Arrival, Exemption Visa, Non-Immigrant MT
and S. - Passport
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ONE of the following documents:
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A letter of reference from one of the following:
- Embassy or international organization
- An official document from another country, such as a document from the relevant agency giving evidence of the customer’s right to receive pension funds
- Customer’s home bank to Bangkok Bank via the SWIFT messaging network
- Person acceptable to Bangkok Bank e.g. branch officer, customer, government officer or company executive
- Educational institution located in Thailand and acceptable to the bank
- Company that is acceptable to the bank, confirming the customer is in the process of getting a work permit
- Other documents that show the name of the customer e.g. a document showing the ownership of real estate in Thailand such as a unit in a condominium
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A letter of reference from one of the following:
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If you hold a tourist visa or non-immigrant (long-stay) visa
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On 18/04/2017 at 4:40 PM, ubonjoe said:
If they enter on a a foreign passport they have to leave on it. After they leave on it they can re-enter on their Thai passport.
If they leave on a foreign passport they are being forced to enter on it again. This is the problem.
When a Thai leaves on a foreign passport, the exit stamp goes in the foreign passport. The departure card number and the foreign passport number are recorded in their Immigration database.
When the Thai tries to re-enter on a Thai passport, their is no exit stamp in the passport, neither does that passport number link to their arrival card number. They cannot be found on the database. How did they manage to exit?
Once they establish they left on a foreign passport, they insist the same passport is used to enter, because they can now match the arrival card number, passport number and the exit stamp with their database. There appears to be no procedure or know how to correct these types of error.
So a Thai is allowed to enter, but recorded as a foreigner under Immigration control.
No definitive solution to this problem has yet been established.
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11 hours ago, 503726 said:
I meant if there is a snap election and the conservatives win well, my bet is that the rate would/will jump by 10% so about 44 Bhat to the £ that Friday.
BKK TT rate already jumped from the steady 42.5 up to 43.6 since the announcement.
Thai wife refused entry on Thai passport?
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted
Assuming the Thai had an e-passport.
She has to exit using the e-pass gates in order to enter again using the e-pass gate.
If you used an e-pass foreign passport to exit and tried to use an e-pass Thai passport to enter.......... guess what?
Gate closed!