aussiestyle1983

What is not agreed on is what is worse; submitting fake doccuments because you have been advised to by a place that you intend to work for and should count on to provide you with correct information, well, at least information that is lawful and will not make you end up behind bars, or, advising someone who intends to work for you, knowing that you are in a position that should give the correct advice, to obtain fake papers knowing that they could get in the shit for it.

I personally think the later is worse. Of course it is wrong to submit fake doccuments, but it is far worse for an employer to encourgae it (and especially dob someone in for taking their advice) IMO.

MJo must not have heard of the 'When in Rome..."' saying. I think it also applies in Thailand. When in Thailand, do as the Thais.

Would you walk around wearing a wife beater rolled up below you nipples, a string of Buddha amulets around your neck, and a coin wedged inside your ear? Probably not in most cases.

What do you expect someone would say to a ridiculous analogy like that? That is not a norm in Thailand... But Thai employers encouraging under-qualified farangs to obtain fake papers seems to be more of a norm. That is why I am not surprised that so many people actually fall into the trap. Not that its the right thing to do, but I wouldn't expect some of the farang types that end up in Thailand to do otherwise. After all, if an employer reccomended a potential employee to do that in a western country, the employer would cop the most of the punishment. What type of country allows employers to provide intentional missleading information to prospective employees and then get of scott free: Thailand.

Awesome!

MJo, I have already admitted that I have done wrong – ignorance of the law is not an excuse – but are you trying to say that the school is blameless? They also submitted documents knowing them to be fake and they knew the law.

The English writer, Leslie Poles Hartley, wrote “The past is a different country; they do things differently there…” Well. I am from that country. I was brought up to respect and obey peop"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there", le in authority – parents, police, doctors, teachers and even other adults. It was a case of ‘do it and then ask questions’! Don’t even try asking the puerile question, ‘If someone asked you to kill….?’

I think when it happened that I had been in Thailand for about 4 months – did you know everything in such short a time. Have you or anyone you know ever bribed a police officer? You can dress it up by referring to it as ‘tea money’ but it is still bribery – a very serious offence in the UK! What was your first reaction when you were told that it is alright? Were you surprised and amazed when it worked? Now, who told you to do it? Was it a friend that you trusted? Did you even bother to check with the police that it was the usual custom? Did I have any reason to suspect that the school was being untruthful?

What you may have done was wrong, but you took the advice of a place that should not have been intentionally misleading you. The school has done worse IMO.

MJo must not have heard of the 'When in Rome..."' saying. I think it also applies in Thailand. When in Thailand, do as the Thais... To bad the Thai who told you what to d ostabbed you in the back. No harm in shaming the school

http://www.tesolcourse.com/

That link advertises on the forum. It could be an alternative?

I really wonder about education in a country where kindergarden teachers are paid more than uni profs.

I do too. But, I'm not surprised. In a country where face and braging rights are considered to be important, if you want to be a prof, you have live with the fact that you will most likely get less pay. More bragging rights = less pay. If you are happy to be a kindergarten cop (like I was), then your back pocket will be a bit thicker. Apart from that, I always felt the hours you actually had to do work at unis were a lot less, and more hassle free. But, I do feel that Thais would rather brag about being profs, and because of that, they have to compensate in terms of pay for doing so.

Actually, old Thais that have been in the government uni system do quite well for themselves. You won't find too many aging Thai ajarns jealous over the farang english teachers pay - as they are usually paid quite a bit more. My wife gets 40K (though she has a PhD from Australia), and the english teacher gets by with 25K (though they are often much less qualified that the Thai ajarns anyway). Having said that I don't bother to work in her college when I can get more than double that in an English Program.

On another note, I would say there are less positions available these days for native speakers - many schools are opting to employ non-natives - cheaper and more available I guess. Many schools who traditionally employed natives are now doing this.

My point had nothing to do with Thai being jealous of farang pay, it was more of an opinion about why I feel the pay is often less in uni's. And, I mentioned that I felt that was because of the way things are in Thailand. From my experience with Thais, I feel if given the choice, a Thai would rather be a prof than a kindergarten cop. Being a prof comes with more face. But, Thai employers are smart and they know this. So, their attitude is, well, we know you would rather this job than that job, so we will pay you less - If you want this job that will make you feel better on the inside, you will have to accept less pay. My post had noting to do with issues between Thais and the farang. Thais determine things in Thailand, not farangs. So, us working for less pay in uni's and more pay in kindergartens is to do with the Thai way. And the Thai way is all about saving face and having face.

Avoid any online course that 'trains' you in practical skills. How can you learn to teach online? It's a bit like learning to ride a bike online - crazy! Teaching is a practical skill and you'll really appreciate the observed teaching practices with Thai students in Thai schools on a full 120-hour course.

Taking a course in Thailand will benefit you these ways:

1-year non-immigrant visa assistance otherwise you'll arrive without a visa and get 30-days visa exemption stay or have a 60-day tourist visa.

Job support.

Awareness of Thai cultural differences.

A network of mates from your course.

Support when you arrive which helps to ease possible culture shock and alienation.

I agree 100% with what Loaded just said.

But, if you have made up your mind to do a quick and cheap TEFL to just get a background, despite being almost a complete waste of money, at least one like the above one I mentioned can help you with a job placement, something you seemed worried about.

http://www.onlinetefl.com/

You can do a basic online TEFL through the above link. I think they also offer some face to face classes. I'm pretty sure they are based in the UK, so the prices will vary. I don't think you will find much cheaper than that. But, it is no where close to a CELTA, and, some places might not accept it. Anyway, you do have a degree, and they offer job placements for people who do their course and have a degree in Thailand I think.

Taken from their website:

"Teaching English in Thailand

Thailand is undoubtedly the most popular destination in Southeast Asia, attracting more tourists every year than any of its neighbours. This thriving tourist industry creates a massive demand for English language skills, so TEFL teachers are now in high demand. The majority of jobs available involve teaching young children but there’s also a high demand for teaching business English to executives. It is notoriously difficult to secure teaching positions in Thailand, which is why our in-country agents make the quest a lot easier on you!

Recommended Training

While you can find a teaching job with basic TEFL skills, our in-country partners recommend our top-level courses in order to find you the best job abroad!

100-hour Online TEFL Course

120-hour Weekend TEFL Course

A top level course will increase your prospects, as you’ll qualify for more specialised and challenging TEFL jobs with higher salaries.

The Employment Basics

Salary: Earn up to 35,000 THB (AU$1450*) per month

Requirements: You must be a native English speaker and have a university degree

Contract Lengths: 6 or 12 months "

Requirements in Thailand

i-to-i's Overseas Partner requires that all candidates meet the following criteria:

Native English speaker. Must be a holder of a native English passport eg. UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada. South African with English being the first language is also accepted.

TEFL qualification (120-hour TEFL course recommended).

University degree holder.

Please note some schools will insist on a two week training course once you arrive in country (regardless of any previous TEFL training). This is a requirement from the Ministry Of Education. The fee must be paid by you and will be refunded on the completion of your contract.

Frequently asked questions about teaching in Thailand?

1. What age and level of students will I be teaching?

You will need to be prepared to teach all levels and all age groups.

2. How many students will there be in each class?

There are usually 8-25 students per class

3. How long are the classes?

Most classes are 50 minutes long

4. Are there any teaching resources?

Yes, institutes are well-resourced. You may also like to take photos and pictures of your home country, family and friends.

5. Will I be teaching alone or team teaching?

For most projects, you will be teaching alone with the guidance and support of other teachers and your supervisor. In some projects, you will conduct the classes, assisted by Thai team-teachers.

6. What kind of school will I be teaching in?

You will teach in a private language institute.

Frequently asked questions about employment in Thailand?

1. How much will I be paid?

You will earn up to 35,000 THB (AU$1450*) per month in THB into your local bank account (you will be assisted in setting this up on arrival.) The tax rate is 10%.

The cost of living is approximately 10,000 THB - 15,000 THB (AU$550*) per month including accommodation costs (please note that this is a guide only).

2. Do I receive a bonus or flight re-imbursement?

You will receive a bonus/flight re-imbursement of 12,000 - 32,000 THB on successful completion of a 12 month contract.

3. How many days holiday will I receive per year?

You will receive 15-25 paid holidays per year.

4. What are my working hours?

You will work approximately 25-40 hours per week. Depending on your contract, you may be required to teach during evenings and at weekends.

5. Can I renew my contract?

Your contract may be extendable. You would need to discuss this with your school.

6. What happens if I need to break my contract?

As the work visa has been applied for by the school, to break the contract would directly cause your stay to be illegal. You would lose your bonus and any other related payments.

7. What will my accommodation be like?

Temporary accommodation will be arranged for your arrival and you will be assisted in finding more permanent accommodation on arrival close to your school.

8. Is there a dress code?

Yes, the dress code for Thailand is conservative.

Male teachers must wear a long sleeve shirt, tie, trousers and working shoes (no open-toe shoes).

Female teachers must wear a shirt, skirt (below the knee) and working shoes (no open-toe shoes). Some schools will allow female teachers to wear trousers.

9. When should I book my flights?

It is your responsibility to book and pay for your flights, and to arrive in good time for your flight. We advise you refrain from booking your flights until you have signed your teaching contract.

10. Who is my contract with?

The contract you sign will be with the language school or institute that you will be teaching at, not with i-to-i or with our overseas partner.

11. What visa do I need?

Our in-country partner will advise on the visa process and requirements for this. It is important that you meet all the requirements outlined for the placement as some or all of these may be essential requirements to get the correct working visa.

*Currency conversion accurate at time of publication.

100 Hour Online and 120 Weekend TEFL course

i-to-i's overseas partner requires that all applicants have a TEFL qualification to apply for the positions. If you need to get TEFL qualified, i-to-i's 100 Hour Online and 120 Weekend TEFL courses are our most comprehensive TEFL courses, providing you with in-depth TEFL training. Not only will you receive in-depth theory training, but also specialist courses for every teaching situation. Increasing the number of hours of study will also give you more confidence, make your CV more attractive and maximize your earning potential.

Choosing the 120-Hour Weekend TEFL course also adds practical training your certification!

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20 hour Specialist Certificate in Grammar

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40 hours in 8 Specialist Certificates

*Not included in the 100-hour Online TEFL Course

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Don't believe everything above, it is not hard to get teaching positions in Thailand. But, there is a bit of info for you anyway.

Thanks. Got any pointers of where I shoud look? Online, papaers, job centres etc?

If you have no experience, when they put you in the class room, how did you know what to do?

There is a website most people use called ajarn.com

If you google teaching in Thailand, or similar phrases, you might find a few useful websites.

When you get to Thailand, you could just walk into places and ask.

I landed my first job by just being white and walking down the street. I as asked if I wanted to teach and took it from there. Once I learned how easy it was, I quite that job before I even started and landed a better job. In that better job, i made a few contacts who put me in touch with the school I eventually ended up working full time for. I had no degree or experience, but I had a TEFL, or a Diploma in TEFL, that's all. I was young, and well presented so that helped. But that's how easy it was. It all started with just a walk down the street. If I was you, apply for jobs online, and go into a few schools. When I applied for a teaching job online once, my mobile phone rang 10 seconds late. no joke. I filled out the online application, clicked submit, and then, by the time I logged into my hotmail account to check my e-mail, my phone was ringing in my pocket. It was that quick. I went for an interview the next day and got the job. That was right at the start of summer school. Either way, if the timing is right, you could be in a job in no time.

As for what to do, you will learn very quickly as you go. ask other teachers for ideas. Teachers out the have so many good ideas. The worst case scenario will be if a school puts you in front of a class without telling you anything. That happened for me on my first day at a private school. I was in front of a grad 2 maths class. I just walked in and the students were smiling at me. I said hi and introduced myself. They all started laughing. I then said good morning. they said good morning teacher. I said sit down please. The students said 'I'm fine thank you and you?'. I thought, what the <deleted>? I did not ask them how they were. Why did they say that? No one told me there is a routine that happens at the start of every class. I felt dumb, but I quickly learned and it was actually quite funny. Anyway, it's not rocket science, you, and anyone, will be fine.

Good luck!

I really wonder about education in a country where kindergarden teachers are paid more than uni profs.

I do too. But, I'm not surprised. In a country where face and braging rights are considered to be important, if you want to be a prof, you have live with the fact that you will most likely get less pay. More bragging rights = less pay. If you are happy to be a kindergarten cop (like I was), then your back pocket will be a bit thicker. Apart from that, I always felt the hours you actually had to do work at unis were a lot less, and more hassle free. But, I do feel that Thais would rather brag about being profs, and because of that, they have to compensate in terms of pay for doing so.

You are pretty much a prime canditate for teaching in Thailand, everything the schools look for. Your TEFL training will prepare you for teaching so don't worry too much. Most come here much less prepared than yourself. You will easily find a jon in the 30K - 40K range practically right off the plane. Unfortunately that will be full-time but there are plenty of school holidays over here.

That sounds good.

Not sure what course to do. My heart is saying do a low cost weekend one but my head is saying fork out £1000 and do the 1-month CELTA one.

Should I let them know when I am arriving so they can meet me off the plane to give me the job or will they be waiting anyways?

Is full-time 40 hours spread over five days a week?

Mate, just follow the red carpet to the limo when you get of the plane, they will be there waiting from tomorrow... LOL

What Norrad meant was it should be no problem for you to find a job once you start looking

You should easily be able to get what you expect based on your first post. My first job, with no experience and without a degree, landed me 38,ooo THB per month.

In Australia, like someone else from the UK mentioned, a diploma is a stepping stone towards a degree. A diploma can count towards as much as 2/3 of a degree. There is one 3 year bachelors degree that takes 24 credit points, but you can do 16 credit points and graduate with a diploma if you don't need the degree. In Australia, here is a list, in order from lowest to highest, of most qualification available:

Secondary School:

School Certificate (year 10)

Higher School Certificate (year 12)

Vocational Education and Training:

Certificate I

Cert II

Cert III

Cert IV

Diploma

Advanced Diploma

Vocational Graduate Certificate

Vocational Graduate Diploma

Higher Education (university):

Diploma

Advanced Diploma

Associate Degree

Bachelor Degree

Grduate Certificate

Graduate Diploma

Masters Degree

Doctoral Degree

So, there are a few different types of diplomas around that can be obtained in different ways. Unless you have a Graduate Diploma, which is usually a 1 or 2 year post graduate course, a Diploma always is under a degree.

Wow. What an interesting read.

Basically, if you have used a fake degree once, no matter how long ago, it could come back to haunt you...

If you left that school 5 years ago, and this has just recently happened, it sounds like, like you said, you have been used as a scape goat; 'plea bargaining chips'.

5,000 - 200,000 THB P.M.

Hi.

I'm thinking about doing a Graduate Certificate in TESOL here in Australia at a university.

Does anyone know if this plus a BA will be accepted by MOE to teach adults English in Thailand?

They keep changing the rules all the time and it pays to make sure. About 10 years ago, all you needed

was a BA. A few years later it was a BA + a TEFL (this didn't need to be face-face). 100 hour online TEFL certs

were ok. Then again, a couple of years later, TEFL Certs had to be face-face.

Depending who you are, who you know, and who you work for, you don't need any formal qualification to legally teach in Thailand. But, for most peole, you need something, and that something is often disputed.

If you allready have a BA, or any bachelors degree, that should be enough to get you legal and land you a decent job. I only had a TEFL certificate and was legal. I taught all age groups from 3 to 55 or so.

I think a post-grad degree would make your case stronger, but is not necessary. The rules seem to not be set and always change. I am working on a BA now just in case I come back so I can get legal easier. I was going to do a Grad Cert in TESOL from UOW, folowed by a Dip and eventually a MEd in TESOL as well, but have decided unless I plan to teach TEFL or TESOL again one day, it would be pointless in getting. However, since you are planning to teach, why not? It would only help, but, I wouldn't do it if you think it is necessary, because it is not.

Good luck! What uni are you looking at?

The entire book is downloadable because it is scanned on the net; just google it if you want to read it.

In regards to the author, if you do the crime, you do the time. However, that does not mean that the law was not written by idiots. This case is a good example of the truth hurts...

I hope QF1 returns to BKK soon for its stopover. The mother-in-law's visa ends on the 15th, we have her booked to leave on the 8th, but that can be deferred. If it does not open until midnight on the 15th that will suck because she will have to leave here on the 15th and the last QF flight out on the 15th arrives in BKK just before midnight. An overstay might be on the cards because I won't pay $240 for a visa extension if it will only be for 1 day

What date is it most likely that normal operations will resume and the planes flying between Australia and Europe will return via BKK instead of Sing? Any ideas?

The economy is in meltdown.

Take a look at those crowded streets full of cars now. Most of those cars will be off the streets just as they were in 1998 when the economy

Hey Thai people. I might be stupid and all we farangs are stupid.

Grow up Thailand

When a Thai is in a foreign country, does that make them a farang?

Whenever I hear a Thai use the word farang here when I am eating in a Thai restaurant in Sydney, I quickly remind them that they are the farang in this country, and if they don't like being a farang, they can leave. They apologise (which is something I have never seen in Thailand due to the face saving device they use) behind a fake smile, but it makes me wonder, whenever I do this, do they get to experience what we experience when we are called farangs in LOS, or, does it just go overe the self-centered mongrels heads whilst they continue to think its okay to call us farangs in LOS but its not okay for us to do the same and that we are picking on them?

I agree with the last 3 words in your post.

Does anyone have any idea of when the airport will re-open?

My mother-in-law is stuck here with us in Sydney until Thailand can get its act together and re-open the airport; something that would have happened immediatley, one way or another, in a more civilized palce. She was due to leave on the 7th, the date can be changed, moreover, the visa expires on the 15th. Does anyone think the airport and intl flights will return into BKK by the 15th? She will fly Qantas not Thai, so landing in Chonburi is not an option at the moment as the Thai flights to Sydney have been disrupted anyway and the ticket is cannot be transfered.

Eevn my Tahi wfie who has been unisg Eisglnh for auobt fuor yreas culod raed taht. But it is aniamzg how the haumn brian wkors!

^ thinking that they would be safer there.

Exactally what I meant! You did what you did to protect them (you weren't to know what was going to happen to them).

Good stuff mate!

btw, I used to play the cornet? not sure how to spell it, but the short, fatter version of the trumpet

A few months ago, I applied to a college in Korat for a Tjob. I am qualified with 10 yrs experience, certificate in hand & recent, 04 genuine degree from the UK. As I had kept my certificates framed on the wall of my office previously & also filed away in a stiff envelope, they were still in perfect condition. I had taken good care of them as they are extremely valuable documents to me..... Well, the Thai interviewers insulted me four times by saying that my documents look like they were made last week. That infurrianted me, the arrogant & rude Bas***rds, but then again I bet they had seen loads of applications from unqualified falang Ass**oles from the UNI of KSR.

People who take good care of their certificates and diplomas do so most likely because they put a lot into earning them. I know quite a few Thai's with degrees that would require the same ammount of work and intelligence as a high school student in the West; one person lost her degree (diploma) and said she wasn't interested in obtaining a new one? Okay. Perhaps because they put so little effort into their own degree, they take little care of the paper that doccuments it and doubts those who actually had to put in the hard yards and take care of their papers. Afterall, it is not to hard to frame a diploma and keep it in mint condition; Thais might rather prefer to spent the few hundred baht a good frame would cost on alcohol? When I finish uni, and if I ever teach in Thailand again, my degree (diploma) will be framed when I need to show it to anyone. I don't want suspicious people tampering with it and trying to deconstruct it. If anyone ever asks me to take it out of the frame I will tell them where to go... Mai pen rai, contact the uni if you have a problem, if not, I'd prefer to look for work elsewhere

Would your degree be considered a 3 or 4 year full time degree? If you have study the same area for 120 out of 150 points, that almost sounds like it would be enough to be considered a major.............. Have you looked into how much extra you would need to study to have an English major? A degree with an English major would given you a huge advantage over a degree with no major. You could say you have an english major because I feel you would have enough credit to justify it on your transcript. I would look into that.

The open uni system here at one uni works like this.

To get a certificate, you need 8 units / classes in one major area.

A diploma in 16 units, 8 units in one major area plus 8 electives.

A degree is 24 units, 8 units in one major area plus 16 electives, or you could do 3 majors if you like.

If you get a dimplma, and you go on and study another 8 units making your total 24, you will then have a degree with the same major as listed on the diploma. They do this because employers here don't care as much asbout having a full 'degree', they just want to see that you have studdied the relevant courses. So, some people only do 8 units, get a certificate which gives them a uni level major, and then stop.

Anyway, a degree with an English major would be perfect for English teaching wherever you go, I's seriously see what you need to do to get one. To me, having a diploma with an English major should give you enough credit to use the same major on your degree.

So you are saying you won't have a major? Will the subjects that count towards your English Diploma also be counted as units that make up your degree since they were studdied at uni level?

At the end of the day, you will have a real degree, that's all that matters. If the English classes are listed on the transcript, you can at least show them to a potential employer to prove you have studdied some English classes; even though you won't have a major, your degree will be more relevant to English teaching that someone with a major in shoe making or lap dancing who does not have any English of Education electives.