aussiestyle1983

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

Sorry to be pedantic, but the university referred to is not the University of South Queensland (doesn't exist), but the University of Southern Queensland, with campuses in Toowoomba and Brisbane. USQ is a highly regarded institution for distance learning, but has also an on-campus enrolment of, I think, about 10,000. USQ shared with Wollongong University the Australian University of the Year award in 2000 for their innovations in e-learning.

We shall have a group of USQ Primary Education students at our school this month for a 3-week practicum, so if anyone has any questions about distance study etc you are welcome to PM me and I can connect you with the lecturer accompanying them. A Canadian teacher at our school recently went to Toowoomba for a year to do a Master's at USQ. It was cheaper for him than going back to Canada to do it.

Since you are on a roll, I thought I'd correct your Wollongong University to the correct name; University of Wollongong

At my school, he would be considered overqualified. As far as I know, there are no qualifications, other than a willingness to work for 7000 baht/month.

The Thai English teachers at my school do share some common traits: laziness, a refusal to give anything but true/false and multiple-choice tests, a refusal to fail students and have to come in after the term ends for retesting, and a refusal to teach anything outside the assigned student book.

The Thai teachers at the school I used to work at did a bit more than you mentioned, but I still saw the prescence of the lazy gene in mosty of them

No worries mate!

In regard to large differences between tuition fees -

A lot of those fee differences are for "Thai" programs vs "International" Programs. Just like in the primary and secondary schools, when employing international teachers, the salaries are larger, hence the increased tuition. Then, there is the standard argument that "out of state/country" tuition should be higher, since those students do not pay taxes to support the system, etc,. Looking at those reasons, and the numbers are not as extreme as they appear on the surface.

No one really indicated that the fees in terms of $ were the problem, moreover, it was the % increase. About 1,000 for domestic and 10,000 for international is ten times more! That is ridiculous, regardless of what it is based on. And, if USD 11,127 is Chula's fee per year for intl students, that is heaps for a Thai uni. My entire degree will cost $14,280 AUD, thats only about $9,300 USD based on a recent exchange rate. So, Chula's international degree costs more than 5 times my degree, which is also from a worlds top200 university according to THE. Even if that fee for Chula was the total degree cost, it is still more than some Western degrees. Like I said Mr. Bowman, the only problem I can see is the percentage increase. In Australia, international students pay about 1/3 or 35% more. Based on that, Chula's international students pay 1000% more. I can't see how that can be justified in any way.

Depending on you qualifications, it is possible to be an online tutor for uni students. There is an American company called smarthinking (www.smarthinking.com) and they have tutors that do a variety of things; review drafts, provide live tutroing sessions, reply to questions, ESL specialists, creative writing specialists, tutoring in various subjects, etc.. The company is based in D.C., but, I am under the impression that you can work for them from anywhere in the world as long as you have a computer, the net, and can work between 4-20 hours per week at least. Anyway, check them out.

Generally, in Thailand, I'd say yes (based on a yes - no question). However, I'd say its more about looks rather than ethnicity (Thais like white skin and western looking people, regardless of nationality; i've met some poor English speaking Germans but their looks met the Thai criteria of blonde hair and blue eyes).

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

Where was that from / for?

At my uni, the domestic fees per Arts unit are $610 and the international fees per Arts unit are $805. That's only about a 1/3 more over the total life of the degree or annual fees however you want to look at it. I've just relaised that's why there are so many intl students, in particular Chinese, at my uni.

I found it on Chula's website, I think .. or maybe one of those 3rd party websites. .. 10:1 Nonresident:Resident.

I checked a few U.S. State uni websites and the ration seems to be between 2 and 3 times.

I found this, but it's a little confusing .. maybe the above included accomms and meals.

http://www.inter.chula.ac.th/inter/interna...dents/frame.htm

http://www.econ.chula.ac.th/programme/ma_inter.html

Oh, it's for Chula........ That's not surprising given it being a Thai uni. Charging foreigners tenfold seems to be normal practice there

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

Where was that from / for?

At my uni, the domestic fees per Arts unit are $610 and the international fees per Arts unit are $805. That's only about a 1/3 more over the total life of the degree or annual fees however you want to look at it. I've just relaised that's why there are so many intl students, in particular Chinese, at my uni.

Thanks for the answers, you guys.  Like I said before, I have two university computing degrees (Bachelors and Masters) but I never bothered to get a teaching credential.  That is only required here in the USA if you teach for public school and, frankly, the pay and conditions were less than desireable so I only worked in private schools (not required).  I have many years private tutoring experience, one year teaching advanced kids, and two years teaching adult night school.  The majority of my career has been spent doing software engineering (although I have been required to provide on-the-job training to new employees).

Perhaps I could get a better job doing computer training rather than english teaching?  Either way, I would at least like to get 60k a month plus accomodations.  I heard most of these jobs are less than 40 hours a week.  Does that mean I could theoretically earn more with "private lessons"?

Thanks,

Jeff

I think that by salary, we mean monthly regular payment by a single employer, not including after-hours private tutoring. As others have already said, you probably need Western teaching credentials, with experience, preferably in a special field, not just EFL or ESL.

You can always earn more with private lessons. In fact, if you do the numbers, you will realise that you can earn way more by just doing private lessons. If you Work out what you actually earn per hour at a school, It wont be much for the time you spend at school (not the in class teaching time which is sometimes next to nothing - I was at school from 7:30 - 4:30 and only taught 18 x 40min classes a week! thats 2:24 a day on average). Nonetheless, I was still at school the rest of the time to get my 45K. So say there are 22 working days per month, so thats 2045 THB per day on 45K. Based on that, my hourly teaching rate would have been about 850 THB per hour, but, my actual hourly rate including all the time I was at school was only about 255 THB per hour. The problem is, it could take you a long time to build up a list of clients long enough to just rely on private teaching. Anyway, lets say you charge 750 per hour, you will only have to work and teach for 4 hours a day to get 3000 per day, that's 66000 PM there just working M-F or 22 days per month. If you charge 1000 per hour because you teach your specialized subject, you would get 4000 a day, or 88,000 PM. However, like I said before, unless you are good and have lots of clients who keep comming back and keep bringing friends along, private work might be un-reliable. Most people do private work on the side to top up their school salary of 35-50K on average.

I agree that it is good news. But we need more information about the survey, because, I doubt universities performsances change dramaticaly from year to year as the THE's survey indicates in some cases.

The trap that I see a lot of people fall into is that they have come here and by hook or by crook managed to get a teaching job. They've settled down (a little) and some are married with a kid or two. They are now a little too old to return to their home country and persue a career or complete their education and they are no longer legally able to work in Thailand. It's not an enviable position.

A trap is indeed what it is. I initially came as a tourist like so many and then started teaching with a plan of only staying six months to a year. This plan ended up lasting eight years; seven years too long. I came to a point where there was no viable future without the degree. I had enough sense to look at my situation, stop, think and get out and get a degree. It's fine to do it for six months or a year as a gap year or travel experience, but don't let it go on too long.

Fortunately these days there are more strict visa regulations which discourage young unqualified people from doing what many of us did in the past. It really has nothing to do with capability. Many unqualified teachers are naturals and quite good at teaching, but it is a career path to nowhere as you have said above.

I am / was in a similar position to mbkudu. I taught there for two yeras full time, during a 2 year leave period from my work in Australia to travel, and since my wife was Thai, I decided teaching there for good might not be such a bad option. I was legal back then, without a degree. But, like mbkudu, I saw no future of certanty there without a degree. I am only 25, so being young, I decided I would go back to Australia and earn a degree whilst trying to save money. I have just finished 1 year of my degree (luckily BA's in Australia are only 3 years if you don't want to do the over-rated honours year), and whilst I not I might never use it or return to Thailand to teach, if I do, it will open up many more doors for me. I will be able to get legal with no problems, and could most likely have a better job. The degree also comes in handy no matter what you do because I guess it also means that you are supposed to be educated, which is what employers like to see. So, seriously think about it, but if you get hooked, it will be harder to leave and get qualified. You don't want to be is a sticky situation like other posters have mentioned, especially if you kinock up an exotic Thai lady and have a sprog or two while having to worry about the stability of your income and future. Good luck.

You only need a TEFL certificate to be a TEFL teacher in Thailand? I thought you needed a degree no matter what you teach ...................

Ranking Web of World Universities, http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=50, has American Universities ranked 1-25 and from 26-50 there are 17 American Universities, and from 51-75 15, and from 76-100 13, that’s 70 American Universities in the top 100 and another 36 in the 101 to 200 range, or 106 Universities in the top 200. My old university, University of Western Ontario, came ranked 196, Queen’s University at 194, 25 years ago when I went to university, these were top ranked schools, I can’t believe there are 135 American Universities better than these two, unless they are marking them by their sports ability and basket weaving capabilities, and even then I can’t believe there are 135 better. To be fair to my American friends Georgetown University was ranked way down at 183, I am sure that a lot of graduates from Georgetown are shaking their head as I am and wondering how they could be ranked so low. Boston Collage and temple also came way down at 264 and 265, and one of the most famous universities in the world, London School of Economics, came in at 314, what’s with that? Chulongkorn University came in at #444, the next Thai university was Kasetsart at # 544. Mahidol and Asian Institute of Technology came in at 740 and 741, Thammasat came in at 850, Chiang Mai University at 877, Assumption at 921, Khon Kaen University at 937. So of 4,000 universities ranked Thailand got 8 in the top 1,000.

In the QS Top Universities Ranking only 36 American Universities were in the top 100 and 56 in the top 200, perhaps a more realistic number. Chulongkorn University came in 166 which was ahead of the famous Note Dame which came in at 168.

Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!

The varied rankings between different surveys does raise questions about what survey to believe. I feel a good indication would be to just work out an average rating for a particular uni by adding all its rankings together and dividing it accordingly. Obviously, Harvard would still be number 1! But, the difference in Thai rankings, such as Mahidol being 740 in one ranking and the in the top 200 in another is way off. Has someone been paying tea money?

And please remember, none of these surveys can be considered accurate, since they all ue different qualifiers to rank schools.

I agree to that. See attached. If doubts can be raised about THE, then given the THE's status as one of the most credible sources, none of these surveys can be given much credibility.

Taken from the article 'Back in top 30 in subject rankings - p.27 - Luke Slattery' in 'Higher Education' section in 'The Australian - 15/10/08'.

THE.pdf

I've completed a TEFL (A grade) and am considering actually doing it. I don't need to work but am interested in it and feel it could be deeply satisfying. The one thing holding me back is that it would be dealing Thai admin, Thai teachers, Thai bosses etc. on a daily basis. Which I feel would probably sap all the satisfaction I'd recieve from teaching the kids pretty quickly.

Does having to deal with the above bring you down?

cause you frustration?

Or have you found ways to deal with it?

Thanks.

The answer is yes to all 3 questions. Dealing with Thai's and even worse, farangs trying to be Thai's, does in a way bring you down and gets frustrating because it is sad to see. You can deal with it by ignoring it or by using the face saving device to your advantage.

I taught there for a while I'd have to say despite the downfalls, I'd think I'd consider doing it again. I aks myself, if I want to teach, where would I want to teach? It would not be in the West, so Thailand would not be a bad place to have a crack IMHO.

I think it belongs in here, especially given the constant debates about Thai and other universities that go on in here

Exactally 2 years.

BTW, if they were not playing power games, and something was forgotten in the application, why was I then told that the passport and visa would be ready in two days after informing them of my action plan? This was clearly a case of a power-tripping Thai acting like a little brat. If anyone chooses to accept that, there is obviously something wrong. I agree that you need to respect these people, like I have always done up to a certain point, but I will not lower my stadards to the ass-kissing culture their and kiss the ass of someone who is just, in a sense, an Australian public servant playing games.

Thanks for your reply mate. Well my wife goes to CC tower today to give them her police report, which said she was not a threat to the state, or along those lines anyway! Now we should get a proper case number for her application and no doubt will be told it could take up to 3 months. How long should I leave it before I give them a ring from Australia to find out what's happening? I know we will have no issues and want to get things moving quickly.

Honestly, if the wait time suggested is 3 months, I'd wait the 3 months before following up. You should find out before the 3 months if 3 months is what they suggested. We planned to wait the full 9 months back then. It was funny, our case officer appeared to like us because we lodged together in person so she could ssee us together, that might be why she didn't wabt to interview us, however, she gave us no impression that it would be approved the next day. All the did was smile and hand us the letter that said 9 months with our case number. she called me the next day at work and I said bullshit! I don't think she was impressed, but she new I was expecting to wait longer. If you call them early, they might get the shits, and after all, they will say 'well, we said to expect 3 months, why call early?" So..... I'd wait the 3 months, and call as soon as it is 3 months and 1 day. Good luck mate. Just be positive and know there isa good chance you will get approved early, and, it could even be the following day

If i read this right, the OP is a Chinese Teacher at an International school not an English teacher

Silly me! what do you suggest?

I know of many Filippinos there who have less qualifications than you and recently got their TL and WP renewed. Most of those only had Bachelor degrees in nursing or IT. They mentioned that they needed to do IELTS, or whatever the name of that english ability test is in order to proceed. That is all I know. Perhaps others could tell you of Thai institutions offering the post-grad course, but you could consider doing it online or via distance education from an Australian, UK, or USA university. At least it would be more widely recognised and more credible than from a Thai uni. Just seek more advice before you do anything, because like I said, you do have a few degrees to your name which is all Thai's want to see. A TEFL might also help you.

You have a lot of qualifications (maybe not education related) and sound experienced, but only the MOE of department of labor can tell you exactally what you need or what they can do for you based on what you have. Remember, anything goes in Thailand, and you will be assessed on a case by case basis. If they like you, you will get approved. If not, they will tell you what you need. But, you will not need to do a masters degree in Education, at most, a post graduate certificate..................

Like I clearly stated, the application lodged was complete. I had previously spend months putting together a spouse visa that was approved in less than 24 hours. The tourist visa for the mother in law was a piece of cake compared to the spouse visa. Like I said, all the doccuments were lodged, translations were all certified by a J.P., what more could I say? The excuse the case officer gave was bogus, because it was not correct, and the threatening tone of her hi-so voice was unacceptable for a public servant representing Australia. That is why I reminded her that if something was missing, someone in the embassy or the VFS must have lost it.

BTW, if they were not playing power games, and something was forgotten in the application, why was I then told that the passport and visa would be ready in two days after informing them of my action plan? This was clearly a case of a power-tripping Thai acting like a little brat. If anyone chooses to accept that, there is obviously something wrong. I agree that you need to respect these people, like I have always done up to a certain point, but I will not lower my stadards to the ass-kissing culture their and kiss the ass of someone who is just, in a sense, an Australian public servant playing games.

Some Case Officers like to play power games.

I agree to that. When we applied for a tourist for the morher in law (us in Australia, mother in law in Thailand), they kept saying things were missing; <deleted> I said, you must have lost it. I gave them 1 week after the original date they said to pick up the visa. My wife called, and they said not to call, we will call the mother in law when it's ready. I called the case officer back 5 mins later and asked when the visa would be ready? I explained that I am an Australian and the Australian embassy is not run by Thais; there are rules and procedures and timeframes in place to stop hi-so Thai wannabies from going on power trips. I then had to say if you are not going to approve the visa, my local MP would see that it gets done quickly. The case offices then said the visa will be ready to pick up in two days. If you are Australian, and you have been polite and done the right thing and they still try to F you around, that is when you need to need to show who is boss.

I agree. Most of the Thai employers look at the country of birth rather than the nationality. I had a good Aussie mate, who held 4 PHd degrees and was born in KL, but had lived in Australia for over 40 years, well, he got treated like shit because he looked as Chinese as you can despite actually being Australian.

FOUR Ph.D's ???

I know, i know............. I thought the same until he showed them all and gave me lots of advice on what the best option for me to study would be. He only has one Bachelors degree (BBA), but he has 2 masters (MBA plus a Master of Arts). 1 PHD was from the Uni of Western Australia, 1 was from the uni of California, and my apologies, but the other 2 were only honoury PHD's (but he holds them to be of equal value). One from a European Uni and one from a Japanese Uni. He is in his mid 40's, but like I said, he looks Chinese and finds it hard to get work.

Believe what you want Dr. Pat Pong................ at least he PHd is not in ping-pong ball shooting or lap dancing

What is your PHd in DR.?

I have read, and agree, that many foreigners coming to live in Thailand go through stages. First, the honeymoon when Thailand is paradise and all the people are honest and helpful; then, the black-cloud stage when after a few experiences of being overcharged, lied to or even ignored, you feel that 'they' are all the same - cheating baskets; after this is a stage when the black clouds roll away and are replaced with more fluffy white ones and you find a niche, but not a rut or hole, that suits you, you have figured out why, and hence avoid, tuk tuk drivers that try to overcharge (they are bloody poor) and girls you meet in a disco or bar who always seem to have other boyfriends (slappers). I think Aussie that you are still in the second stage and have found no reason not to hate this place. Long shot here but did a Thai woman do the dirty on you? Whatever happened don't come back until your perspective changes otherwise you'll continue to punish yourself.

Sophocle's Oedipus Tyrannus never saw the truth until he had stabbed his eyes with a pin and blinded himself. We may not be the Delphic oracle but I think it's worth listening to the advice above.

I have no reason to complain about Thai women. My wife is a perfect as they come and no Thai has ever done the dirty on me (except for those who try to overcharge because i'm white). My anger at Thai's comes from their attitude in general. In fact, my wife does not like Thai people and she does not associate with or speak to any Thai people in Australia. Perhaps that is another reason I have a bad attitude towards Thais, my wife may have influenced me against them? Anyway, my relationship is fine, like I said, it was a few experiences I saw that exposed the cold harted nature of the Thai character that got me wound up