aussiestyle1983

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Regardless of what the whingers and sceptics think in regards to this post, common sense is enough to remind me that whether or not this has happened, it would be very easy to happen and no one would know what was going on until it would be too late to run and hide in the school's basement.

Thanks for reminding us how easy it would be to get busted if you are working without a work permit.

It seems like although there are supposed to be no spelling or grammar nazzis in there forum, there can be burden of proof nazzis For those who asked wilko to back up his claim, are you going to back up every claim you make from now on?

thank you - a voice of reason....at present I have to say I've completely lost patience with the other 2 posters. all over a perfectly useful piece of advice.

I don't blame you; I would have done the same. In fact, reading some of the other posts reminded me of the reason why I don't post much on here anyomre

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Regardless of what the whingers and sceptics think in regards to this post, common sense is enough to remind me that whether or not this has happened, it would be very easy to happen and no one would know what was going on until it would be too late to run and hide in the school's basement.

Thanks for reminding us how easy it would be to get busted if you are working without a work permit.

It seems like although there are supposed to be no spelling or grammar nazzis in there forum, there can be burden of proof nazzis For those who asked wilko to back up his claim, are you going to back up every claim you make from now on?

Given that Thai's take into account nationality, country of birth, shade of skin, eye colour, neatness of appearance, marital status, ability to kiss ass, and a few other things that promote inequality, I wonder when the usefullness of a farangs penis or sperm count will be consideered when going for a job? If one can't get the female principal knocked up so she will have a farang to bankroll her, maybe that is another reason for not hiring someone who is more than qualified and wants to teach in Thailand. Will the day come when farang wannabee teachers need to submit sperm count results in order to land a teaching job in LOS?

I really miss working there and would consider doing it again, but just like IJWT mentioned, I do not encourage people to go there to teach for the same reasons most people on here tend to agree to, there is very little if anything at all to gain from it except for a headache. If I go to teach there again one day, it will be because I enjoyed teaching the Thai students and the Thai culture; it won't be for anything else other than the satisfaction I get from teaching a good group of people, because lets face it, everything else having to do with working there legally is a headache.

Hi,

A few of the boys are planning a trip to the Moto GP in Sepang, KL, Malaysia. We know you can do track days there, but we can not find any contacts or any info about hiring sportsbikes, such as R1's, ZX10R's, GSXR1000's, etc.

It would be good if we could find a place that hires out sportsbikes to use for the trackday there, if anyone knows any contacts.

The other option was to rent the bikes from Thailand, and ride down to KL and then back after the event. I remember seeing places in Phuket that hire out sportsbikes, but I don't know any contact details, or even if this would be allowed or if the quality of the bikes would be decent.

If anyone knows any contacts of places that hire out sportsbikes in either KL or somewhere in Thailand, that we could use on the track at Sepang, it would be greatly appreciated.

Tony

Wonderful. I nearly exploded when I saw that phrase, "Those who can't, teach" because it is false.

If you can read this, thank your teachers. If you learned business, law, medicine, etc., thank your teachers.

And, if you ended up teaching illegally in Thailand because you had no chance of a career in your country of origin because you didn't have the brains to go to uni and get a degree, thank your teachers

I'm afraid this topic has gone greatly off-topic. We don't allow discussion of the "degree-no degree" qualification debate here, as it tends to be inflammatory and pointless:

From the Teaching Subforum Guidelines:

8. Topics on the question of degrees/no degrees for teaching English or other subjects are currently restricted as they have been over-discussed and Thai government policy is not currently clear.

The fact is that the government, while making it more difficult, has continued to allow some teachers to teach conversational English in Thailand without college degrees.

The topic, in case anyone has forgotten, is what exactly the requirements *ARE* for teaching here- police check requirements, degree requirements, etc.- this is quite unclear, as PB the OP pointed out- not what the requirements SHOULD be, especially educationally. There is also some question about what teachers who cannot navigate the bureaucratic maze can do or should do (including, possibly, leaving).

Posters who fail to understand this will receive deletions and warnings after this point.

Thank you for your cooperation.

"S"

" 165 User(s) are reading this topic (114 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) "

Wow! Good thread PB!

In response to someones comment on the no-fail policy. I like the no-fail policy as far as being a teacher is concerned, especially since I realise I couldn't change it if I wanted. It just means less work for us teachers. If that is the Thai way, why should I care? A no fail policy might not bring the best out of all students, especially the bludgers, but it doesn't change their level of intelligence. Long live the no fail policy and not having to mark papers! Long live the illegals as well! One I get my degree, I will return to Thailand and try teaching illegally next time. That seems to be the dominant paradigm.

Lucky for us western, native English speaking farangs that the Thainess in Thais wants to see white meat teaching little somchai. If they weren't stupid and realised that we are not necessarily the best teachers and that many other colours and races can do just a good a job as us and better in many cases, maybe we would all be out of jobs because like you hinted at, we do cost more. That is another part of the stupidity of Thainess that keeps jobs available for us, their illusion that in regards to teaching 'white is right!".

Thai's will never lose their 'Thainess', however, I think this term was used wrongly. I think the concern was more in regards to the ammount of Thainess that influences the Thais and is present. For Thais to lose Thainess, they would have to lose stupidness, and frankly, I can't see that ever happening. Anyway, the greater the influence of Thainess on the Thai education system, the better for us; by only having MEPs' and not full EPs', their English will never be as good as it could be and we will have more of a chance of having jobs.

By the way, Haltes, I agree with you that persons who have been studying education recently should know about Vygotsky, Piaget, etc. (I agree less with Gardner, as he is more a popularizer of various iconoclasms and his theory, if there is a single coherent one, is really not very well articulated yet at an academic level).

However, are these the types of people Thailand should be seeking to teach TEFL in its schools, or even technical subjects? Education majors? Isn't the problem that there aren't that many real education majors here in the first place?

I think the test made by the Thai is just done so that we can see how stupid they actually are and feel even more sorry for them. Honestly, this test sounds like a joke.

I agree with you. Right now, I'm studying an Educational Psychology class. You are right, Piaget, Vygotsky, Erikson, Kholberg, etc. are the people who made the theories that we should know about in order to be better teachers. Regardless of what topic or subject we teach, in order to be successful we need to understand the learner and how the learner develops in the first palce. There is no point in knowing your subject if you can't teach it in a way that the learner understands. Maybe Thai's don't care about educational psychology and don't give a shit what how we teach, they just want us to fail a stupid test that makes no sense in order for them to have a laugh at us. Pack of saddists. Honestly, what a joke. If there is ever another Tsuanmi I hope is goes through the MOE office (and many other government offices in Thailand) and cleans the stupidity and backwardness out of these places........................

Good luck to all you lads that are stuck, or want to be there to teach......................... hope it all works out

Here are a few suggestions-

Swearing 101 - Swearing for beginners

Swearing 102 - The phonology of swear words

Swearing 201 - Correct usage of English swear words: Swearing in context

Swearing 202 - Swearing: swearing in pbulic v. swearing in private

Swearing 301 - Advanced swearing: swearing without offending

Swearing 302 - Advanced swearing 2: grammar and swear words

Swearing 444 - Swearing at the missus: caution must be taken

Swearing 555 - Swearing BBB: Behind Buddha's Back

Swaering 606 - Swearing to inflict mental damage and to offend: swearing in a war context

Very few people teach Thais how to swear correctly, that is, without offending others. I feel this is important because each time a Thai hears a farang swear, they get a bad impression of us and think we mean it in a bad way when that might not be the case. Teaching terms like, Get Farrrrked instead of Get F*%ked, Farrrrk off instead of F*%k off, etc. will make Thais learn that there is a sarcastic way to swear that actually means something good. This will help Thais be able to distinguish swearing with a bad meaning from swearing with a good meaning; and might help them to understand that we are not all foul mouthed animals.

From what I assume your experience to be, based on your post, I reccommend you start with Swearing 101.

It would waste a lot less time if you were just able to log onto the Uni's website with your student number and password and show them your results page, which would indicate not only that you have graduated, but also show a list of your classes and grades. I know not all uni's are the same, but nearly all unis's have a system for student's to log into to view their results. Anyone can obtain an envelope from the uni, put a fake transcript in it, put a address sticker over the previous address and send it to some dodgy Thai school. I'm sorry, but you can easily get your way around having a uni send transcripts if you're a fraud as well. I think loging into your uni's website, which could not be faked, would be a quick, easy, and cheaper way to prove that you are a graduate.

From my experience with Sarasas, the smaller the school the better.

Yes, they do look after their non-degreed teachers and make them legal without asking teachers to get fake papers like some other schools do, well, I haven't heard of any non-degreed Sarasas teacher being asked to supply fake degrees where I worked. Sarasas is one school that you don't need to lie to in order to get a job, in fact, if they find out you have a fake degree and lied, they will most likely fire you as that has happened to afew people. Sarasas is not a bad place to work if you want to get some experience under your belt and lack a degree or other qualifications. If I return to LOS, and have my degree then and other job options, I'll still return to Sarasas for a year or two, the branch I worked in was excellent.

IF the degree or transcripts state 'Distance Learning', you may have a problem. I was told a few years back by a Thai staff member of the British Council that Thailand won't accept distance learning degrees. However, who really knows in Thailand? Life all depends on the alignment of the stars and your past karma anyway.

Yes, make sure if you do a distance degree it is recognised the same as an on-campus degree. If so, the degree or transcripts would be identicle to on campus students and not say anything about distance education on them; not that there is any big significance expect for the fact that you just don't have face to face contact in distance education. I chose my method of studying because the degree I'll be awarded comes from a real uni, is identicle to the same on-campus degree, and does not say anything about having to listen to lectures from the CD rom instead of attending the lecture hall. Make sure your degree doesn't say online degree or anything like that.

Most likely is the answer to your question. Nothing is certain in Thailand and things always change. I am doing a degree through an open uni, it's not an online degree but it's via distance education, so something similar. As long as the degree is from a real university, it should be fine. It wouldn't matter how you studdied for the degree. The only difference between a degree done on campus and the same degree done via distance education from the same university is in the person holding the degree. They will both be recognised the same. And yes, you can do a degree in an international program in a Thai uni. Just remember, get your degree from the place that you think is best. If you think a Thai degree will bring the most benefits to you, do it there. If you want a degree from a western country, do a degree online or via distance education from a western uni. Yes again, you could do a TEFL there in Thailand and use it, just as you can use a TEFL certificate obtained from anywhere. But the degree takes longer, focus on that. A degree without a TEFL is most likely better than a TEFL without a degree. And, people can get leagle without degrees and TEFL certificates anyway, but I think these days are numbered;

so the degree should be the first thing on your list. A tefl can be done in 4 weeks, you need at least a few years for a degree. 1.5 years is the least ammount of time a bachelors degree (3 years full time degree done at 200% work load) can be done in AFAIK. Good luck.

So who will be wearing the Donald Duck costume next week?

Maybe the complete opposite will happen and in the future you will need a criminal record at least five pages long with at least ten child sex charges in order to get a teachers licnece.......

Sorry my friend CS but you are wrong. We were also invited. Invited in the sense that anyone who wants to come to Thailand can, as long as the get their RSVP in the form of a visa. We are also foriegners, like you said. Being a foriegner does not mean that you can't also be a guest or fall inot another catagory. But like I said, as long as Thailand has it's door open and allows us there on way or another, they are in a sense inviting us thus making us guests, as well as tourists, temorary residents, whore mongers, etc. And also, guests can turn into residents if they say 'Hey, i like this place, I wanna stay here and i found a way that I can". as you can see, foriegners will always be foriegners, but there are foriegn guests, foriegn temporar yresidents and foriegn residents. All permanent residents are foriegners as far as I am concerned, however, once PR in converted into citizenship, the foriegnen part is gone and you are now a Thai. Me thinks that you want to become a Thai.

But being foriegners, I guess we would be classified as guests without getting to technical.

We are not "Guests"... We are Foreigners.

Guests are invited.. we weren't invited...

But even foreigners can be residents... Guests can not.

They are not in the same category.

That's it... and no amount of argument can change the facts.

No one is stipulating the residents are citizens or entitled to the benefits of citizenship...

But not having the right to vote, or 30 Baht Health care, doesn't deny my right to Bitch...

Or my responsibility to try to do the best job I can as a Teacher...

Even if it means that Thais hiding behind a Cultural Wall of excuses have their feathers ruffled before they are forced to wake up and join the reality of the 21st century... dragged kicking & screaming if necessary... or crawling on their knees in surrender.

If they don't, only the path downward will be their destiny.

Some people like to be ostriches, but while their heads are in the ground reality swirls around them.

CS

Guess you're just passing through.

As long as you are legal what does it matter.

I'm not "Passing through", as my intent when I came here was to stay until I die.

I came here to live.. and I left nothing behind, aside from immovables (Kids and Family).. I have no property, investments or other assets "back home".. I moved everything here...

Thailand is my Home...

and staying here legally is always an uphill battle, as you all are aware.

CS

When people accept that the legal way is not the norm in Thailand, and live according to the norm, that feeling of an uphill battle gets relieved. It would be nice to do things legally if it were easier and straight forward, but I'm am starting to think that the illegals that live there on visas that have been expired for decades are the ones doing the right thing. When in Rome......................

Thailand is far behind because education in general is so far behind and because the lack of standards (as demonstrated by eliminating the ability of students to fail and be properly ranked) in a supposedly grade-based system has led largely to lazy mediocrity even among the best students- and since they are sheltered by the Thai system they have no idea how they compare with other international communities their own age (and they would be well shocked if they did!)

I have known a few well-educated Thais who grew up as residents in Thailand and speak English fairly proficiently- but even their best proficiency is probably at about the average level for similar demographic groups in other non-English-speaking countries (except Japan).

"S"

As I keep saying.. It's ingrained into the culture...

Without a complete overhaul of the system, including cultural support, sorely lacking at this time, Progress will never happen.

So we are just flogging a Dead horse.

CS

No only do dead horses gets flogged in regards to LOS

I'm neither. I'm aussiestyle1983. I do what I want and I go where I want. When I was in Thailand I was there for 2 reasons; 1 - I chose to be and 2 - I was allowed to be there according to Thai law. When Thai says 'you are here because we let you be here' I say they are only half correct. Regardless of Thai law, no one comes to Thailand who doesn't choose to in the bgininig. I say they might allow us to be in Thailand, but they don't force us to come there. We come to Thailand because we want to. If we wern't allowed there, we'd go elsewhere. The equation is quite simple, we first choose to come to Thailand, find out we can, and then end up there; only by our choice to begin with. But being foriegners, I guess we would be classified as guests without getting to technical. Once PR comes along and even citizenship, we would then be residents. Having said that, working and living their legally on a temporary visa like a non immigrant visa would make us "temporary residents". So there, I classify myself to be a "temporary resident" when living in Thailand.

or the 19th for that matter

I believe this board is a very cathartic experience for you.

However, you keep mentioning the 'problem' and I keep saying maybe the 'problem' isn't a problem for Thais but only for you and a few other guests. Let me present an analogy: Palestinians think the West Bank is theirs by right of International law. Israelis think the West Bank is theirs by right of history. Both sides think the other side is wrong and can't believe the other side could be so intransigent. Your case is a little different as on one side you have Thailand, its people, culture, history and on the other side just you and a few foreign guests.

Honestly, Thailand won't miss you (or me) when you (we) leave. We are insignificant in the scheme of things here.

Sorry if I left your comments about being a "Guest" hanging, but I was out earning a few Baht... But I'm back now.

In order to not Hi-Jack this Thread, I've decided it was a better idea to respond in a separate thread.. I'm sure you'll find it.

But I will address your Comments about the Palestinians and the Israelis.. Which as a "Middle-East studies major" I feel very qualified to give an educated response to....

If you think you can define the Palestinian/Israeli problem with a few short sentences you're about as informed about that situation as you care about the teaching of English to Thai people, or to the Society you have chosen to grace with your presence...

I don't believe that I'm alone in caring about this place that I call home... I bet the majority of Teachers that are here for reasons other then drinking beer and getting laid also care about improving the situation here. Thailand certainly won't miss THOSE people when they Leave... (Thank you John Mark Carr)..

But as for the rest of those dedicated teachers that Aren't here for the Nightlife only.. They will never be "insignificant in the scheme of things here." They are all that stands between Thailand and the 3rd World that it so recently left.. and that it is slowly sliding back into.

But but I'm sure that when push comes to shove, and when the Thais finally wake up and realizes just how bad a deal that they have been getting from their "Caring" leadership, they will decide that it's time to make changes. And as a caring and serious teacher.. I'll be right back here ready to help, but until then.. and I don't believe that it will happen in what's left of my lifetime or before "hel_l Freezes Over" (whichever comes first) I'll just mossy on down the road at first opportunity... Pull up stakes and head for more fertile parts.

But rest assured.. I'll be around for a while longer to be kicked around, as I try a raise the necessary wherewithal... So the games will continue.

CS

Cosmic is spot on. The Thai's won't admit they miss us because they are good at trying to save face, regardless of it's affect. However, with multinational coorporations taking over the world, Thailand needs to have a higher English proficiency level than it currentlly has in order to develop further in economic terms. The Thai's can't teach themselves English, let alone do it correctly. If all the English teachers pissed off out of Thailand I think anyone who believes it would be insignificant is day dreaming. English is the only tool some Thais have to better their life, get better jobs, leave the corrupt country, etc. Even though Thailand is a dodgy and corrupt country that is riddeled with problems, English will always help the country improve and give hope to some people who can take advantage of their new acquired language skill.

BTW: Also, if the teachers left, especially the ones on high salaries, the bar girl industry would be out of business

http://bangkokgirls.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/in-the-news/

These 2 got nicked. Check the link. Many don't.

Your "friend' might want to weigh up the pros and cons of going legal with a fake degree or working without a work permit or getting a real degree or just forgetting the working holiday idea.

BTW, The school those two worked at, Kornpitak or Kornpitaksuksa as is the name in full, is the most beautiful looking school I had ever seen. I even saw and know teachers that work there that dress up as the disney characters one day per week. I don't know why anyone would need a degree to work in Disney Land. After all, that school is the next best thing to visiting Disney Land.

Local kids don't have to get work permits...so no background check is necessary and highly unlikely for lower paying and non-professional jobs.

Most farangs that apply for work permits with large companies will undoubtedly be scrutinized by the officials and have their degrees investigated. After all, if they find a fake it will give them an opportuniy to ask for a bribe.

Thai people aren't stupid just because they don't speak your language. They are quite capable of finding out you're a fake...if that is what you are.

Not that it's right, but if the Thai asks you to get a fake degree does that make them criminals and fakes as well?