Tofer

I'm surprised to read the few posts that refer to the Russian being perceived guilty simply because he was here! I experienced this in Saudi Arabia and found it just as ludicrous then. If you are in country legally then you have every right to be there / here.

I live in fear of someday having a child on a bike under my wheels. I wonder what the scenario would be in this instance as the child, under aged and an unlicensed driver, definitely should not have been on the road... 

Anybody had any experience of this?

7 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Some countries allow one to have two passports.

Correct. I have 2 UK passports, the second one issued on business grounds.

I know an Austrian chap who had 5 or 6 passports for business travelling and visa applications.

13 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

If I knew how to obscure her face I would post a photo of a 7 year old girl from the village driving a motorcycle with sidecar.

 

 

That's completely normal in Koh Lanta / Krabi, even with a policeman monitoring the busy junctions near the schools.

A youth no more than that age with 2 passengers rode out of a side road, unable to control the bike properly, and almost side swiped us had I not reacted instantly. Fortunately I've come to expect it...

I don't see many posts this time from the casual characters who thought the baby on the drivers lap in a previous post was acceptable..

8 hours ago, aussienam said:

I suppose people will vote with their wallets.  Let's wait and see how many apply.  

 

Like anything there will be some like you who see merit and others like me who do not!  If I was a wealthy frequent traveller with loads of disposable income with Thailand as my base then I might consider it. 

 

If you think spending 100,000 Baht per year for convenience and less hassle then kudos to you! But for the masses like me I say no! Good luck with it.

It's 100k / month, and you don't have to spend it, you don't even have to bring it here  just prove the income as I understand it, with an embassy declaration / certificate.

It's just another option, as you say for those that can show the income. It doesn't mean it's BS, as many on here have alluded, just because it doesn't fit their profile.

I agree the details are somewhat scant, and will need more information before considering it seriously. But anything that reduces the Immigration hustle for 5 years (4 visits) has got to be worth considering.

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Not sure where you're getting that idea from... The actual requirements (from ThaiVisa) are as follows:

 

 

From the 'full story' attached to the original headline post and the 'associated story' therein.

Of course if you have the full official details please disclose them, I would happily stand corrected, to make an informed choice.

2 hours ago, aussienam said:

The losses in foreign bank interest over ten years for 3 Million Baht makes this offer uneconomical for most

 

3 Million Baht?  So, this is my question; is the allure of a ten year (5 year split really) visa is worth putting 3 Million Baht into a Thai bank account that will earn virtually zero interest?  

Let's do some simple maths: 

 

If I leave my three million baht in my Australian bank account - in a 5 year term deposit account (that is also bank guaranteed under strict Australian government legislation) - approximately $120,000 Australian Dollars (based on roughly 25 Baht to the dollar) , I can currently apply for a 3.3% term deposit interest account up to 5 years in most banks.  

 

First 5 years: 

That equates to $3960 interest earned per year x 5 = $19,800.00.  That is almost 500,000 baht in interest (minus tax of course but that is variable according to one's tax structure).  

 

Second five years: 

 

So now you roll over the principal and interest received from the first 5 years:

 

$120,000 AUD or 3 Million Baht plus interest = $120,000 + $19,800 or 3 Million Baht + 495,000 Baht 

 

So the new 5 year term begins with the amount of  $139,800 AUD equivalent to approximately  3,495,000 Baht

 

That equates to $4613.40 interest earned per year x 5 = $23,067 AUD or 576,675 Baht

 

Total gross interest earned over 5 years would = $19,800 + $23,067 = $42,867 earned

 

That's the equivalent of 1,071,675 Baht - over 1 Million Baht in gross interest 

 

Even if you were to pay let's say an average Australian income tax rate of 32.5% (including Medicare levy which you may be exempt from as an expat) which for many would be less anyway, that's still approximately $28,935.00 AUD interest earned after tax or approximately 723,380 Baht.  

 

I understand the 1 year retirement visa also requires an amount deposited into a Thai account and/or some proof of a regular income stream.  

 

But as it stands looking at the ten year visa option one needs to ask whether it is worth losing more than 1 Million Baht in passive gross income over 10 years (based on Australian bank interest only) by leaving money in a bank for the use of the Thai economy with zero benefit to you?  It's a very large amount to pay for convenience.  

 

So unless you are a wealthy retired expat (I am sure there are many of you but many of us were not so fortunate) this amount is just way too much to just hand over.  

 

Basically you are paying 100,000 Baht per year (based off the gross interest amount) for the visa when you equate it to lost interest.  

 

There is no way I would ever pay that much to stay in Thailand unless I was close to death's door and wasn't going to pass on any inheritance anyway.  

 

There is way too much uncertainty as well about the future and it is a huge amount to hold in a bank account for ten years with no interest - plus the value of that 3 Million Baht depreciates with CPI (inflation) as well which means after ten years if you decide enough is enough that money is worth considerably less.  

 

You could have saved the batteries on your calculator and simply declare an income of 100,000THB......  No deposit required! 

Of course I appreciate some are not able to show such an income, but those that can would benefit immensely from not having to visit immigration for 5 years, with all the associated time and hassle. Particularly as online reporting is now available. So I'm guessing this visa only appears ludicrous to those that cannot show an income in excess of 100k.

It's not mentioned, but I presume this would be a multi exit / entry visa, another benefit depending on the actual application cost of this visa, compared with the annual fee of 3,800/an for the same annual extension.

A further benefit is a sense of security of residence for 5 years.

Viewing it from this angle, what's not to like?

2 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

That's the best thing I have read from the story and the comments. THANK YOU.!...

I lived in Malaysia 2 years. 

I now now live in Thailand. What conclusions would you draw from that?

Of you go then, enjoy... Please don't send me an invite!

40 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Usufut protects your right to be a squatter not your house you paid for

& I guess as for your British Nephews = Falangs can't own land in Thailand

That's just the way it is I suppose.

31 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

I agree.  Providing children with a decent education and attitude, so they can earn their own living is the best you can do for them.  I have seen quite a few farangs and Thais whose lives were practically ruined because of expectations that their parents would help them either while still alive or through inheritance. They didn't exert themselves to the fullest and often their expectations were disappointed due to long illnesses by parents and other unforeseen events.

 

Good to hear that your investment in Lanta is doing well.

Absolutely right, a good upbringing is all children should expect, and our nephews have certainly been very fortunate in that respect, so should be able to make their own fortunes hopefully.

Thanks, we've been very lucky in Lanta albeit quite late. I came to Krabi about 30 years ago to check out the islands but never saw Lanta, what a blow. Happily when we finally discovered the place prices were still very affordable, positively cheap compared to Phuket, and totally unspoilt. Fingers crossed it doesn't change too radically.

30 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

You still need to sing the National and Royal Anthems if you apply on the basis of permanent residence but not, if you apply on the basis of having a Thai spouse.  I have a Thai wife but had to sing anyway because we had not registered our marriage for the requisite three years for me to qualify from the exemption.  It was quite an experience singing unaccompanied into a mic in front of 30 senior civil servants.  Getting the Royal Anthem right was a lot harder than the National Anthem.     

Hats off to you for enduring and succeeding with that.

It would be fantastic not to have to deal with immigration ever again and feel secure in your residence here, but I think it's a none starter for me.

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

You can mandate in your wills that the property is to be sold and the proceeds to be shared between the four designated heirs.  However, you will need to appoint an executor you can have absolute confidence will put this into effect according to your wishes and that the will be not be successfully contested by your Thai heir or any statutory heirs, or that the executor will simply ignore your foreign heirs.  Things being what they are in Thailand this might be difficult and it would be difficult and expensive for your three British heirs to contest it in the Thai courts, if things didn't go according to your plan.  If you have sufficient assets in the UK or elsewhere outside Thailand, it would be a neater solution to leave the Thai property to your Thai heir and leave non-Thai assets to your British heirs    

Thanks again for your advice.

That had occurred to me also, but our Thai assets are fast overtaking our UK assets as appreciation is much better here. Koh Lanta is on a similar trajectory to that experienced in Phuket over the last 20 years, plus we are still developing our property here. If all goes according to plan I think our UK assets will pale into insignificance in the not too distant future. A nice dilemma to have, but still a dilemma! Our adopted Son is a good lad and continues his relationships / communication with his cousins in UK, so fingers crossed I suppose.

When all said and done, I'll be ashes and they can all stand on their own 2 feet I suppose. Nobody ever gave me anything, except good manners, a conscience and a decent education, which is all any of us should really hope for.

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

I have a proper light blue ID card.  I went through all the trials and tribulations over many years to get first permanent residence and then Thai citizenship.  Nowadays it is a lot easier, if you have a Thai wife, because, since 2008, you don't have to get permanent residence first or even be competent in the Thai language.  The key thing though is that you have to be working in Thailand with a work permit and paying tax on a salary of at least B40k a month, if you have a Thai wife (B80k if you don't have one).   That is because the Nationality Act specifies that an occupation in Thailand is needed.    Anyone interested can find tons of information here  

.

Well done Arkady, I am very jealous of your Thai status. Unfortunately I don't have any occupation here, and am unlikely to get one, at my age, other than on a volunteer basis perhaps helping out in the local schools with English.

Out of interest do applicants still need to sing the national anthem?

6 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

The way things work in Thai bureaucracy individual land offices, like district offices, seem to have or take for themselves a look of discretion in how to interpret regulations and appealing against their decisions is not easy.  Some of them even refuse to do usufructs for foreigners and there is little you can about that.  I had a usufruct on my land and house that was in my wife's name and I wanted to add my name as a joint owner after I got my ID card.  Since I had paid the lawyer good money to get the usufruct and was only going to become a joint owner, following negotiations with Mrs Arkady, I asked to leave the usufruct in place and Mrs Arkady had no objection to that.  The land officer refused on the grounds that they would not transfer land with an outstanding usufruct on it.  I took it up to the next level of supervision and got the same answer.  No one suggested the problem was that I would be joint owner and usufructee, although I could see they might think that irregular.  The objection seemed  to be simply that they didn't want to transfer land with an outstanding usufruct, even though, as you point out, there is no law or regulation preventing that and a number of precedents where it has been done.  Perhaps they believe and/or have had experience that transferring land were incumbent usufructs can lead to problems.  It is not hard to see this happening, as why would a new owner in normal circumstances not want to try to cause problems for the usufructee to try to force him or her to leave and give up their rights, specially if the usufructee is a farang?  Thus they might simply be trying to protect the rights of usufructees.  Anyway I didn't push this any further than the supervisor level, since I got to be joint owner which is a higher claim than usufructee.  Going any further or demanding full ownership would have created bad will with Mrs Arkady and in the case of full ownership would have doubled my tax bill.  That was my experience.  Your mileage with Thai bureaucrats may differ.

 

Transfers from spouse to spouse theoretically incur only a nominal tax charge and I had prepared this nominal amount when we went to the land office.  To my disgust the officials said they could not extend the concessionary rate to me because I was not a Thai citizen at the time of the purchase.  I had to return the next day with a larger wad of cash.  I thought this was very strange but later we did a similar transaction in another land office with a piece of raw land I had invested in and wanted to become a joint owner of and got exactly the same response. 

Now you've got me really confused - not difficult some may say!

How can a foreigner become a joint owner of land if they are not allowed to own land?

Did you do that on the strength of a simple pink ID?, or have you obtained full residency status?

5 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Due to the list of inheritance It is straight forward

House in Wife & sons name * If anything happens to me = no worries

                                                  *                                        Wife = That the land shall be passed (transferred ) straight to my                                                                                                         son

Will get a Falang lawyer to sought all out & stave of any no gooders 

* Well believe you me the land dept has no problem in transferring land with a Usufrut on it as we know their is no law preventing this & doesn't need the the approval of the Usufrutee

You would only need to drop a Usufrut if you are only after the cash of said property if you end up inheriting it

 

                                                              FROM EXPERIENCE

Thanks for the benefit of your experience, hopefully not personally.

I agree a usufruct is definitely the way to go to protect your residency.

I just wonder what would happen when I and my wife die and my wife's adopted Son (Nephew) takes the title and our will stipulates a quarter share between him and 3 British nephews. 

12 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

I don't have any personal experience of this but my understanding is that the only sanction available to the Land Dept under the Land Code is to hand the land over to the Legal Execution Dept to sell at public auction.  That is the same process for land that a foreigner is found to have acquired land through a Thai nominee.  This sanction is rarely applied, even in the case of foreigners who willfully violate the Land Code, so I doubt it would be applied with excessive harshness in the case a reasonable delay in selling a deceased spouse's property.  Thus I doubt that anything would happen, if the property were sold a few months after the 12 months deadline, particularly, if I am right in thinking that the only sanction available to the Land Dept would be to sell the property anyway.  I also imagine that the legal procedure for handing over property to the Legal Execution Dept takes a very long time.   The intent seems to be prevent the foreign spouse of a deceased Thai property owner from leaving the property in the estate indefinitely, so that he or she can effectively own the property as executor of the estate.   If you should find yourself in this unfortunate situation, I would advise talking to a decent lawyer and/or to the Land Dept directly to find out if there is any flexibility and whether it would be necessary to apply for an extension in advance.      

Thanks, that's very reassuring. I would however have no qualms about transferring the title into my wife's (our) adopted Son's name to be able to continue living there with a usufruct till my days end. It would just be nice to think our other 3 British nephews could share in the legacy as we have split our assets 4 ways in the UK will plus a few considerations around the rest of the family members.

I hope to never be in that position, being blessed with a near perfect wife. I would truly hate to be single again at my age (61).

4 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Although the post is rather unclear it does raise some interesting points.  The first one is what appears to be a reference to Section 93 of the still current 1954 Land Code. 

 

"Section 93 The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an alien who is the lawful heir, but such acquisition when added to that which s already held may not exceed the amount which may be held under Section 87."

 

At a superficial glance this might seem the perfect solution.  However, if you look at Section 87 which is referenced in the clause and sets out the maximum amount of land that foreigners may hold for various purposes, you will see that this is all contingent on international treaties.  Unfortunately the last of these treaties expired in the early 1970s. Therefore, there is no longer any way that a foreigner can inherit land and there would be no point in wasting time and money applying to the minister for permission for something he is not empowered to grant.

 

What you can and should do and it is also alluded to here, is to have the Thai spouse draw up a will that that clearly leaves the property, or rather the proceeds form selling it, to you to the exclusion of her statutory heirs.  In this case, title in the property does not  pass to the foreign heir and it does not matter if it is more than 1 rai, since the treaties that specified that limit are now defunct.  What happens, if you do this right, is that the title in the property passes to the estate of the deceased and the estate of a deceased Thai person is a Thai legal entity, so no problem with land ownership, regardless of the nationality of the heirs.   In the case of a foreign heir or heirs, the estate has, as you say, 12 months to dispose of the property to a Thai person or entity. 

     

It might be worth establishing a usufruct, if your land office will do it.  If you can plan ahead it is better to do a usufruct before marriage because any contract between man and wife can rendered null and void later, according the Civil & Commercial Code.  The value of a usufruct agreement might be that it could help dissuade statutory heirs from attempting to take possession of the property.  It is unlikely that the Land Dept would agree to a transfer, if there is an outstanding usufruct agreement without the permission of the usufructee to dissolve the agreement.  In my experience of trying to transfer land with a usufruct agreeement intact, the land office refused to do it and insisted on its cancellation first, even though there is nothing in the Land Code that prevents this.

If you want to remain living in the property, you will have to find a Thai nominee to transfer it to.  Since you will probably have had to dissolve your usufruct, if you had one, before the transfer, you can then attempt to set up a new one with the new owner.   

Can you please clarify one point from your statement / advice.  

If a will is written to pass the proceeds of the sale of the property to a foreign husband, will that still apply / be enforceable if the property does not sell within the required 12 month time limit allowed for the sale before transfer of title to a Thai is necessary.

In other words, can the Thai who is nominated for transfer of ownership be forced to sell the property and hand over the proceeds to the original foreign beneficiary of the will?

Thanks.

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Nope.

 

Wow, that looks appetising! Bit far from Thailand though...

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I did. 

Better advice:

 

Didn't you mean the clip - 'Walk on By'!

We too had pho in that infamous HCMC restaurant, but I don't recall it being either earth shattering or distasteful.

The Hoi An noodles however, in Hoi An, were spectacular.

If you've never tried the very spicy Thai soup 'cow soy' (apologise for the spelling), the Chiang Rai version, not the Chiang Mai effort, you haven't lived! Happily my wife makes one of the best examples of this I've ever tasted - who's a lucky chap!

18 hours ago, henry15 said:

If the property is less than 1 rai, you can  become the owner of the property, with full ownershiprights, just like  Thai national. So you don't have  sell the propertu within a year. You can even putt it in your will and let inherrent by foreigner. But he must sell within a year

What your wife have to do , is making a last will were she disown the 6 statutaire heirs,  Needles to say you need a good lawyer, who  is willing to go all the way. In the inherritance were I wass the appointed manager of the estate confirmed  by the Civil Court, the procedure to.change  the Ghanotte took about 6 months. This was rather quick due the fact, that none of the 6 statutary heirs  opposed the will.

Its was a test case  and the first succesfull case in Thailand. Total legal amd procedure costs about 350 000 Baht. Not included the fee of the manager of the estate, because I did it for free, because it wass a friend.

What happens if the property is more than 1 rai?

5 hours ago, halloween said:

So somebody in a car should kill him, right?

He'll probably manage that all by himself...

He was driving like a dick - no disputing that, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking on the inside and travelling much faster than the other bikers he flew past. Probably gave the poor old prof the shock of his life zooming up his near side at such speed.

I didn't see any jolt in the bikers camera footage, so where is it evident that the prof rear ended the biker, he simply drove up close to make a point he was peed off. A bit of road rage - big deal! 6 and half a dozen IMHO.

In the confrontation the biker was the aggressor, yanking open the car door in a threatening manner.

10 hours ago, Here It Is said:

My Thai wife hasn't got a bad bone in her body and wouldn't expect that anyone has a bad word to say about her, if they're honest.  Married seven years and trust her implicitly.  We live in the UK and my wife's a British citizen, which is great as we can do what we like and go where we like.  

Likewise, great to hear you're happy with your lot. 

I've known my Thai wife 33 years and been married 22 years and can honestly say she's worked harder than anyone I've ever known, watched the purse strings better than I would, looks after me like a Prince, cares more about my happiness than her own and is as honest as the day is long.

I divorced my first British wife after only 2 years!

7 hours ago, observer90210 said:

The OP case history is fine and nice to read.

 

Others would have stories of workers comming in at their villas, homes, condos to do jobs and instantly overcharging....Same for many home fitting outlets, taxi drivers and the list can get real long.

 

In many cases, the Thai merchants/contractors/service providers/ will go out of their way to try to cheat and ripoff farangs...not that one would generalize this to all Thais, of course not!!!....but human nature will take over if you just get ripped off or cheated by a Thai business on a weekly basis!

 

And you don't in your home country in similar circumstances. As you sat it's human nature - not just Thai nature!

6 hours ago, inThailand said:

And would you say there are more honest moral people in LOS than you home country?

I feel I could certainly say there are no less.

I've got scars on my face from arrogant belligerent criminals who didn't like being told off for abusing my property and insulting my Thai wife in UK 

I had thieves visiting my building sites on a regular basis in UK, not to date in Thailand 6 months into the project.

75% of our tenants in UK leave a mess, damage and in some cases unpaid rent, and then argue it's ok or wear and tear when we get to court. I did hear of a similar incident in a neighbouring property to our temporary home, he was a farang....

I see a lot of negativity and 'Thai bashing' on this forum in respect of Thais honesty and ethics and would like to get a more balanced view from the members who have had good experiences.

My contribution is that prior to returning to live in Thailand a friend of my wifes (Thai) offered to lend us her car after we sold ours for our last week in the UK. I parked it against a high curb and pulled the low sporty valance off the front and cracked it in the process. Feeling very bad about this, I showed her the damage and told her to get it fixed and send us the bill. She burst out laughing and declared that it was already broken and was not of my doing and to forget about it.

Another event that sticks in my memory was a liquor shop owner that supplied our restaurant in Phuket who, when asked to take back excess stock I'd purchased when we closed down, refused to accept my request for a refund of 50% of it's purchase price, he instead insisted on refunding me 90% of the original cost. We also had local businesses buy furniture, crockery, cutlery, glassware fridges, cars, etc without negotiation. One local establishment said they would buy all my surplus beer as the suppliers would never consider its return, when we came to reckon up he was counting every last bottle, I told him to just pay me for the full unopened boxes but he insisted on paying for every bottle. Pure integrity and thoughtful consideration of our plight! All this was a consequence of the one a...hole who was screwing us out of our business, which brought out a dozen decent Thais in support. A heartwarming balance of good against evil...

Please, no comments about vultures hovering over a distressed seller, as everyone of them paid more than I would have accepted.

I personally have had poorer experiences with the farang husbands of some of the Thai ladies I met in UK through my wife's circle of friends and some of the farang I've come across in Thailand than the Thais themselves....