Nienke

Hi,

Thank you for the response. Yes, you may be right that hitting them is counterproductive as the problem is fear/behavior related and not really to do with discipline/authority. At first I did not hit them for this, but as the problem grew, I thought maybe I could try the "it's not acceptable to do that" approach, A 'distract and then reward for good behavior' approach will in IMO lead faster to desired beahvior, and is nicer to your dogsrather than just getting them to love all people. They are actually very good with people, even the ones they bark at after they have smelled the person...They also do very well in crowds, because I started taking them at a young age, specifically to prevent this sort of problem and at first it seemed to work very well. I think the problem stems from the fact that they now spend most of their days indoors staring out over the fence at a lot of things they would like to go interact with...I think you make a good point there. Being confined to one area for long periods of time can increase territorial aggression and boundary frustrations. Is it possible to take them out more often during the day? or take them to doggy places, such as Elfie mentioned? I've heard good comments on Pet Paradise (google for their website) I didn't quite understand what you mean by socializing my dogs in "the right way," so let me tell you the way I do it. Since the vast vast majority of the people they bark at are young men, I ask security guards (who ask me about my dogs, as many do) if they wouldn't mind petting them. The GSD will sometimes bark at him at first, but she's actually the one who is happier to petted by strangers- the GT doesn't seem to care one way or the other. This comes across to me that your GR is much more confident and your GSD needs more confirmation as she is shy by nature. This means that they need diffrent approaches in training and behavior modification

Also thanks for the info about the dog trainer- I actually did contact one a while back, but he wasn't very good. He was very impressed that my dogs obeyed "come" and "sit" so well, and then told me the only thing left to teach them was to "attack" on my command Wow, some people are real jokes Anyway, with your approach, intention and the things you have done till now, I truely believe with a little guidance you will quickly turn your dogs in nice pets.

Nienke:jap:

Hi,

I have two (enormous by Thai standards) dogs around one year of age (one German Shepherd and one Golden Retreiver) in the middle of Bangkok. They are fairly well trained, in that they come immediately when I call them, understand and respond well to "stop" and "no," sit and wait before crossing any road, etc. And they are quite gentle and cowardly- they play perfectly fine with my neighbor's 1 kg dog. They will chase cats, but are too wimpy to make a real attack if they actually corner one. However, even when they were really young, about 1/3rd of Thai people would freeze in terror if my dogs walked past them. Now that they are bigger (they are actually very small for their breeds, only a little above 25 kg each) anytime I take them out for a walk I am constantly hearing (na glua, maa tua yaa maak, etc.) And since I moved two months ago to a house with a fence (I really believe fences make dogs more aggressive,) they will now bark at certain people (away from the actual house, where almost all dogs will bark at people) they don't like for whatever dumb doggy reason (drunk people, people wearing funny hats, people behind fences, people wearing tradtional Indian clothes, and most aggressively at ladyboys) Individually they might not be a problem, the German Shepherd never comes close to anyone she barks at and will only bark once or twice, then run away. The Golden Retreiver hardly barks at all, but when someone runs away from my dogs because that person is scared, the GT will sometimes give chase and jump at said person in a playful manner. People who are not particularly scared of dogs don't have a problem with their behavior, but unfortunately this absolutely terrifies some people, in this country where a large minority are really afraid of dogs.

I know most people are going to just tell me to simply put a leash on my dogs at all times, but I'm reluctant to do this for two reasons: I think always using a leash makes a dog more antisocial and intractable, because they are surronded by stimuli with which they want to but cannot interact. Two, they need their exercise and I am in the middle of a big city with no place to take them (the fenced in area is tiny and I have a busy body neighbor who gets upset if the dogs bark out there.) This is also a rare occurence as they don't bark at most people and I have pretty good control of the dogs so can call them off quickly (but sometimes too late when the person comes out of nowhere.) When it does happen, I often get a earfull of swear words, and sometimes even threats and I usually just play the dumb farang who doesn't understand a word they're saying (I'm actually now close to fluent in dog related swearing vocabularly.) Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but finally my question is does anyone have any suggestions of possible training techniques or does everyone believe it best that I just leash my dogs at all times? At the moment, I'm trying three things: I hit the dogs when they bark at someone on the street. I try to socialize the dogs with the types of people they are more likely to bark at (it's 95% Thai men.) And I take the dogs on walks in crowded areas where they see a lot of people walk past, because they will never bark at people when they are in large crowds. Any well intended advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

In stead of giving step by step tips on how to modify your dogs (and your) behavior, I strongly suggest to contact Mr. Patrick. He seems to be an American, lives in BKK and does dog training.

I don't have his address or phone number, but he is highly recommended in the pinned subject on importing dogs. PM the person who recommends him for his phone number.

You can also contact Soi Dog Rescue in BKK, as he seems to help them out as well.

Dogs that bark at certain people are not well socialized, meaning that your dogs are not well-socialized with (in their minds) strange things, such as hats or different from the usual outfits, and peculiar behavior (ladyboys). I agree with the fence thing so far, the a fence means the border of the territory and there's where most agression occurs. Dogs that will chase after people and even jump on them, are NOT under 100% command of their owner and show predatory behavior. Can imagine that that's something that scares the crap out of people. The danger in this part is that your adolecent dog can learn that he can 'control' his environment.

Hitting a dog when showing undesired behavior towards strangers can INCREASE in stead of decrease the behavior, as the dog can start associating the stranger/s with the punishment (hitting in this case, but it can also be any other kind of correction, such as a jerk on a choke chain). Following, the dog wants the stranger to be as far as possible in order to avoid the punishment, meaning that their undesired behavior can start sooner and sooner. It also breaks their trust in you, which is especially in your GSD's case not desirable because s/he already shows a shy behavior.

Taking them into crowded are's can be a good thing to do, but it can also be too much for the dog/s resulting in an increase of fear (aggressive) behavior. I can imagine that GR would be ok with this, but that it can be a quite scary experience for your shy GSD. But to say exactly which one it is I can't as I don't know the dogs and the situation.

Socializing your dogs with those they tend to bark at the most is a VERY good thing to do IF you do it in the proper way.

All the abovementioned is NOT meant ot critize you (on the contrary, after all you wrote to this forum in order to seek help), but meant as an explanation to urge you to seek direct guidance in modifying your dogs behavior with somebody who can see you, your dogs, the interaction between you and your dogs and knows about dog behavior (development AND modication techniques), and not through a forum where people most probably will give you all well-intentioned advices, but don't know (I repeat) you, your dogs, the interaction between you and the dogs in normal daily life and during the abovementioned encounters.

From what I've understood (again I don't know the person, have it only from hear-say/read), Mr. Patrick seems to be a good dog trainer/behaviorist to contact.

Wish you good luck,

Nienke

I disagree with the theory that there is no such thing as a bad dog. A good friend of mine has a useless dog. I call him bucket because of the truck that come around trading plastic buckets for unwanted or bad dogs. His dog bites people and kills anything he can kill. He killed eleven of my wife's ducks. He has cost my friend quite a lot of money and my friend will not part with the dog. We have a VERY large Golden Retriever that would rather play than fight but he is willing to fight when he has to. My dog has had my friends dog down and trapped and holds him by the throat but doesn't clamp down. That stupid dog wants to fight each time despite having been put down every single time by my MUCH larger dog.

Bottom line is that dog should be destroyed. Any dog of mine that ever bit a child or killed fowl was destroyed. It happens but it shouldn't happen twice.

I think it's how you define 'bad' and 'good', which is very subjective although most, if not all, people agree on the fact that aggressive behavior is not desirable. IMO, there is not such things as bad dogs, but there certainly are bad or undesirable behaviors. Most often with behavior modification (of both dog AND owner/s) this can be turned into 'good' or 'manageable' behavior. It is often the owner who is not willing to put time and effort (and money) in the behavior modification of his/her dog that has been able to develop due to lack of knowledge and/or lazyness on the part of the owner/s, hence the destruction of the dog. Does that make the dog bad? I don't think so.

Nienke

P.S. I have the greatest respect for Sceadugenga and his wife, who are trying to solve this (big) problem in a humane way.

Excellent advice, Nienke.

I agree about no fan; crikes, it's like Siberia in cargo. Lots of blankets?

I don't think it's that cold upthere in the cargo. So far as I've been told, when animals are kept the temperature is adapted to them. I would imagine so, because they can't have it -50 degrees celcius, or the animals will freeze to death. All dogs that I've known and traveled by air had a mat or thin blanket to lie on, ot more than that. If you would put a jacket on the animal, chances are that it gets overheated fast once on the ground. So better to have only a non-slipping bed on the floor of the crate, and those two drinking bottles.

Nienke

P.S. As for Marco, I assume he still has quite some undercoat. That for sure will come off in CM. So, grooming grooming grooming loads of grooming. But NOT shaving!

No problem, the family kids hang around all the time, they just target certain other animals

I don't want to make you worry or come up with horror things, but I plead for caution here. These two dogs have shown already predatory aggression. This is the most dangerous aggression in dogs!

If, for whatever reason, a child (or an adult) becomes scared and starts to run and scream, the predator instinct can be triggered with most horrific results.

One example of a young girl who went to a dike with her two dogs and her girl friend. The dogs were known in the neighborhood as being the most lovely dogs and very good with children. One of the girl fell asleep and the other was playing a bit further away.

What most probably has happened was that while the girl woke up the dogs have nuzzled her (probably in a friendly manner). She started giggling and pushing the dogs away, while still lying on the ground. The dogs probably got aroused by this wrinkling around and the high-pitched giggling. The girl probably became scared and started screaming while pushing the dogs harder away in defence. The predator instinct got triggered and they attacked. The girl did not survive.

ALWAYS keep in mind, DOGS ARE DOGS with still a LOT of wolf instinct/behavior. And with these two i would be very careful. It might be it will never happen, but still you can better be careful then sorry.

Nienke

Nienke, sceadugenga is a very old Anglo Saxon name for a mythical creature that likes to roam around at night. I don't any more but the name fitted once.

Nice name, though

On a different note. If these GSD's like to chase and attack that much, your neighborhood should be very careful with children as well (and themselves). Maybe something to alert your neghborhood and the owner of the dogs'.

Nienke

Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks the "banned breeds list" is stupid .

Looks like the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is on that list too

Here's the list for those that can't be bothered to visit the link of SEVENTY FIVE - banned or restricted breeds .....................

1. AIREDALE TERRIER

2. AKBASH

3. AKITA

4. ALAPAHA BLUE BLOOD BULLDOG

5. ALASKAN MALAMUTE

6. ALSATIAN SHEPHERD

7. AMERICAN BULLDOG

8. AMERICAN HUSKY

9. AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER

10. AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER

11. AMERICAN WOLFDOG

12. ANATOLIAN SHEPHERD

13. ARIKARA DOG

14. AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG

15. AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD

16. BELGIAN MALINOIS

17. BELGIAN SHEEPDOG

18. BELGIAN TURVUREN

19. BLUE HEELER

20. BOERBUL

21. BORZOI

22. BOSTON TERRIER

23. BOUVIER DES FLANDRES

24. BOXER

25. BULLDOG

26. BULL TERRIER

27. BULL MASTIFF

28. CANE CORSO

29. CATAHOULA LEOPARD DOG

30. CAUCASIAN SHEPHERD

31. CHINESE SHAR PEI

32. CHOW-CHOW

33. COLORADO DOG

34. DOBERMAN PINSCHER

35. DOGO DE ARGENTINO

36. DOGUE DE BORDEAUX

37. ENGLISH MASTIFFS

38. ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIEL

39. ESKIMO DOG

40. ESTRELA MOUNTAIN DOG

41. FILA BRASILIERO

42. FOX TERRIER

43. FRENCH BULLDOG (he sure looks threatening - rip your little off he will

)

44. GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG

45. GOLDEN RETRIEVER

46. GREENLAND HUSKY

47. GREAT DANE

48. GREAT PYRANEES

49. ITALIAN MASTIFF

50. KANGAL DOG

51. KEESHOND

52. KOMONDOR

53. KOTEZEBUE HUSKY

54. KUVAZ

55. LABRADOR RETRIEVER

56. LEONBERGER

57. MASTIFF

58. NEOPOLITAN MASTIFF

59. NEWFOUNDLAND

60. OTTERHOUND

61. PRESA DE CANARIO

62. PRESA DE MALLORQUIN

63. PUG

64. ROTTWEILER

65. SAARLOOS WOLFHOND

66. SAINT BERNARD

67. SAMOYED

68. SCOTTISH DEERHOUND

69. SIBERIAN HUSKY

70. SPANISH MASTIFF

71. STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER

72. TIMBER SHEPHERD

73. TOSA INU

74. TUNDRA SHEPHERD

75. WOLF SPITZ

I want the pomeranian added to this list since I've been attacked by one, and one has been responsible for a childs death too.

On a serious note, I do notice that many of these dogs listed here are working and hunting breeds, so maybe the groups behind all this BSL/Banning crap are ANTI-HUNTING or similar supporters

Wow, I noticed that didn't had a proper look.

Sorry NR and all Golden lovers, but your dog/breed is a vvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyy DANGEROUS dog and should be banned!!!! After all, they can slobber you to death. You might drown as a result.

It looks more to me that there was a group of total morons who have been doing a game of 'how many breeds can you name', or 'what breeds you like and don't like'. The top 75 of the don't-likes will be put on the black list.

Nienke

Hello

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried sick about him travelling all the way to Thailand in a crate and wish there was an alternative to doing this. Regarding the crate I have already started making enquiries with a number of pet relocators who offer a service of making made to measure wooden crates, he is too big for the plastic ready made ones. I have read somewhere that if you attach 2 water bottles, one with water and the other with ice, so that the dog always has water. Don’t know if anyone has heard of this before? I think that's a good idea. For training him to drink from the water bottle you can put some cream cheese on the end (mouth part), that he can lick of I certainly will start to crate train him as soon as I have acquired one for him. How many months in advance is it advisable to do this? As soon as possible. How fast it goes depends on your dog. If you can borrow a bench from somebody you can already start. If you can't borrow, than a huge carton box can be used as well. Just make it a fun game for him. Does anyone know if a fan is a good idea? I don't think so. So far I know, down in the plane it's already cool.

I have spoken to the manager of Thai Airways cargo regarding Marco and his flight arrangements and he did not mention any restrictions on the months I could take him. I will certainly contact him again and ascertain if they have this restriction in place.

As far as I can tell I cannot get a direct flight to Chiang Mai from the UK so will have to go via Bangkok. So far I know, that's correct.If anyone knows differently please let me know? I think that the earliest Thai Airways connecting flight from Bangkok lands at Chiang Mai at 0855 hours. That's still ok. I am being met by a friend of mine and she is bringing a Thai friend of hers who’s uncle and brother are both Customs Officers. That's great, than you don't have to worry.We will be renting a house for a couple of weeks which is dog friendly until we can look around Chiang Mai for a long term house rental.

I have also read on another website that a the plane cannot take off without your dog is onboard. And to check that the dog has been loaded before you board the flight. When a friend took a dog to Holland, from Chiang Mai, they told her/checked at the check-in or it was at the place where your board (don't remember) in Bangkok that the dog was onboardI have attached a photograph so you can see my baby. Beautiful dog Everything should go fine. He boards where it's cool (or reasonable cool), lands in BKK in very early morning and arrives in CM still pretty early. And with your friend's friend's family there should be no problem. It most probably will speed things up! Then, you go straight to the house and put the aircon on for both yourself and the dog ... and relax

Nienke

Nienke, that's incredible. Who in h#ll made up that list? An pathological dog-hater? Labs??? I think they would be up with Golden's as some of the soppiest dogs out. Pugs? Boston Terriers? OMG! And Boxers as well. If it wasn't so sad & wouldn't adversely affect so many dogs & their owners, it would be laughable.

I really don't know and it scares the crap out of me.

What these people can do and are doing already, not only concerning dogs, also concerning our right to live a healthy and peaceful life.

Bits by pieces our freedom is taken away. Did you read the 'stupid quote of the week'? Look how scary that is!

Nienke

Just an update. Jedi is back to his normal playful self now and his leg is healing well but still looks nasty. He is no longer allowed outside without being accompanied. This is the damage inflicted upon him by the individual(s).

Wow, that was really bad! I'm glad he's much better. Do you notice any difference in his behavior, when you go for a walk during the day, during the evening/night, when you pass a certain spot, etc.? This must have been a quite traumatic experience for Jedi. Poor dog!

Nienke

Just came accross the following link: http://dogpolitics.typepad.com/my_weblog/2...of_banned_.html

In certain places in the US they have made the list 'sligtly' longer. Only 75 (!!!!!) breeds and mixes of these breeds, including the labrador retriever, the fox terrier, boston terrier and the pug??????? The boxer? Surely those are VEEEEEERRRYYYYYYY dangerous dogs I wonder who made this list and how much they know they breeds? ... The pug, a dangerous breed?

And don't think it can't affect Thailand, as countries tend to watch each other.

Nienke

Hi Nienke,

I can recognize that huge rear end sticking out of the pond ... that is my English Mastiff!

Thanks for posting that.

The one and only. A real diamond in heart and soul!!!! Only now he is twice the size as he's full-grown

I think he was trying to get some phak boong out of the water here. It was so cute to watch him.

I'm so sorry for what happened sceadugenga.

I can fully understand your reaction. Because the first thing that comes up in the mind and gut is to protect your four-legged kid from danger and possible damage.

I also feel horrible for the two GSD's. After all, they can't help it that they have such a misfit of an owner.

It's really a horrible situation you are in.

Nienke

P.S. BTW, what does sceadugenga mean?

What a nice pic's, can't stay behind

Pic's of the enormous fun Ms. Figure's (beautiful) child has are wonderful!

The German behavioral centre is still going as far as I know, dogs there are kept till their problems are sorted or till the end of their lives , no healthy dog is euthanised whatever permanent problem it has,only dog I saw euthanised was a self mutilator, I was also in charge of selection and testing of Wardogs for the dutch army and airforce , in Hessisch Oldendorf and Eindhoven, we also set up the facility for retired Bouvier des Flandres in Roetgen near Aachen, my feeling is if the breeding of dogs were controlled and selective like it still is with certain breeds in europe, we would not have so many problems Nignoy

You say first that 'all dogs are kept till their problems are sorted out'. That certainly is a good thing, don't dispute that. However, even then it still doesn't always work out.

Another example from the same behavioral center I mentioned before.

There was this bouvier who attacked viciously people. When for the first time at the center he even tried to jump over a pretty high counter to go for the throat of the trainer (who at that moment did not have any interaction with the dog). It turned out the underlying feeling of this dog was fear, who had gained lots of confidence thru his aggressive behavior.

This dog's behavior was step-by-step modified into a nice dog that could live a good life in human society. They took the dog into busy shopping centers, have people pet the dog etc. However, one day (I think at the vet's even) someone made a mistake (again the details I can't recall, those bl*** brains of mine). It was really a human error (something like approaching the dog in a very sudden way from the front and then correcting the dog in a not too friendly way. Something one shouldn't do with any dog), and all the old fear popped up again. This vet immediately suggested euthanesia, very insistently. And the owner, completely over-ruled, agreed.

The center was devastated, especially the trainer who had worked so intensively with this dog and had brought it back to normality. They said, it should not have been this way, with some more guidance the dog could have lived a normal happy life with his owner again.

What I wanted to say with this example is that there always so much this human factor is involved. The bouvier in the example was in fact a fear biter. The rottweiler in the other example was a confident dominant aggressive biter already at (only) one year old, not even full-grown yet, still in his puberties; not suitable in human society.

It could be this is the kind of dog police or 'the soldiers' would like to have (I have not enough knowledge on that). But then, I'm the kind of person who really wouldn't like that, both for the dog as well as for the victim/s

And, to keep such a dog kenneled for the rest of his life, even when there is a big playfield and the like ... well, I'm not so sure if that would really be humane (IMO).

Nienke

The German behavioral centre is still going as far as I know, dogs there are kept till their problems are sorted or till the end of their lives, no healthy dog is euthanised whatever permanent problem it has,only dog I saw euthanised was a self mutilator, I was also in charge of selection and testing of Wardogs for the dutch army and airforce , in Hessisch Oldendorf and Eindhoven, we also set up the facility for retired Bouvier des Flandres in Roetgen near Aachen, my feeling is if the breeding of dogs were controlled and selective like it still is with certain breeds in europe, we would not have so many problems Nignoy

I absolutely agree there, although I would like to change <quote> like it still is with certain breeds <unquote> into " like still some responsible breeders do"

One example of uncontrolled breeding in Thailand is the Ban Kaew breed. A really wonderful breed, IMO, but too much aggression problems. One of the causes (again IMO) is the breeding.

In Holland there was a lady who bred Fila Brasilero's. She wanted to breed the agression out of this breed and make them more suitable as pet-dog in 'my' over-crowded country. She got a huge amount of opposition of the club, because it was not according the standard of the breed. I think she was even kicked out of that club.

Personally, I though it was a very good thing to do, especailly because the Fila has 'orange' light or (I don't remember the details) is even has red light, i.e. is on the black list of dangerous dogs. She did an attempt to safe this breed from being banned.

Nienke

No way, Nienke!

I never put a dog down for anything, and my Thai vet wouldn't either. Pain killers and rocking in my arms til he/she went to Rainbow Bridge -- that was the way I did it for any of my brood that took deathly ill. Bad children got house duty and outside only on a lead until they sort of learned to obey.

Although, thank goodness highly exceptional, there are dogs that even with the best possible authoritative owner/trainer, are just plain dangerous.

I've seen this dog (was not mine), I've seen his behavior, and I heard first hand what he was capable of. That's why the owner went for behavioral counseling in the first place. This dog was really dangerous by character, not made. It was not a fear biter, not at all. This dog was highly confident, and could/would even direct his aggression to his own owner.

Even, when the owner would have continued training (positive way) and kept him under very strict authority, this dog could attack/correct anyone (including the owner) at any moment, just one can't be alert 24/7. Options are to have the dog muzzled at all times, also when in the house with the owner, and/or keep him sedated for the rest of his life. Not very humane options, I think.

The behavioral center is extremely good and has many succes stories. They are not the kind that easily will suggest euthanesia, but will look at all possible options and do anything in their power to safe the dog, provided that it is safe for human and animal society as well.

Keeping such a dog in a society with many people and childeren, is very irresponsible.

Nienke

Hello

I am coming to live in Thailand in the next few months. I am bringing my German Shepherd with me. He will be flying with Thai Airways on the same flight as me. I am really worried about him being cooped up for 12+ hours in his crate. I have been given conflicting advise whether to crate train him or not. Has anyone got any really good tips on how to make this process as painless as possible for him. And before anyone suggests it - No I cannot leave him in the UK

Thanks

Hi.

Just read your former posts (in Feb.) Welcome to Chiang Mai Fabulous place!

In case you are planning to go directly to CM, then it's best when your plane arrives in BKK in the night or early morning, and the connecting flight to CM is early morning as well. In such a way your dog suffers the least from the climate differences.

A friend/customer of mine just recently had her three dogs flown over from India (all mutts), and didn't had to many problems. Customs tried to get some (tax) money out of her, but she refused. It took a little longer, but finally she paid about 200 baht a dog.

It would be easier if the dog's crated has wheels underneath it, as I mentioned before they need to remain crated untill outside of the airport building.

Nienke

As an avid dog fan and retired zoo curator amongst other things,I have learned through 40 years that there is NO animal !! dogs included! that does not bite!!for a while in the late 70,s I ran a Behavioral Studycentre in Germany for dogs that had attacked and bitten people, all dogs are different and even 5 pups from the same litter can turn out all shapes and sizes and temperaments,so its always a case of live and learn with every new puppy,my grandad had a battle scarred jack russell terrier, who would fight anything no matter how big,but never so much as nipped us kids, but none of the pups that he sired were as brave as he was,all dogs can be trained, just be firm, show them who is boss the dog will mentally show you the Finger and carry on doing what it wants to do!! Nignoy

You certainly have had a very interesting carriere, IMO

All dogs can be trained, but even then not all dogs are safe to have in area's where there are (lots of) people.

I once joined a behavioral test, at a highly respected behavioral center in Holland, with a 1-year old Rottweiler, fully trained according positive reinforcement and being extremely firm, clear and fair to the animal. This dog was so confident, he even at that age didn't need nobody but dealt with his own issues in not the friendliest way. He was a living time bomb, and the advice was euthanesia .

Nienke

Excellent advice and info, Nienke and MTW.

I would underscore the importance of taking your dog out to noisy places in his crate before the big day.

Also, check the location of the live cargo depot at the Thai airport where you will be landing. The old BKK airport's international live cargo was way far from where the passengers transited. I remember friends having problems getting their big dog there as he had to be in the cage in the airport area and there were no dollies to wheel his crate over. Again see for the new airport details the pinned subject

Be prepared for when you land; hopefully you'll be the first off the plane and thru immigration. Have a change of bedding, water, a treat, lead/leash; hopefully you can find a place close for pup to pee or poo if needed. Best would be if you could have a friend waiting for your dog, in case you get held up. Remember, last I heard, you could not take your pet out of the crate in the airport area. Any news on this Posters?In Chiang Mai, at least, I can confirm this. Also, do not feed your dog till at least you have reached your destination and have relaxed there for about 6 hours. Water you can give, but in moderate amounts. Not a whole bucket, as a customer made that mistake with her Great Dane, who then died of bloat

And what about your land transport from the airport to ? Get a dog-friendly hotel lined up, maybe.In Bangkok, there is a Mr. Patrick, see pinned subject, and in Chiang Mai, there's ... me

And definitely, direct flight, NO transits.

We may sound bichy, but just some precautions. I know many folks who brought their animals over safely. Absolutely confirmedHope you will live in the jungle or near the beach to keep him cool. otherwise a big fish pond in the garden will do also Good luck.

Please let us know how it all turns out.

Everything that Nienke says is right and will help.

I would like to add, get the biggest crate possible, don't be cheap in this regard.

And get some drugs from your vet which will help your dog stay calm and hopefully sleep through most of the journey.

Hi,

I would like to react on both abovementioned remarks:

First: I would recommend a proper fitting crate for your GSD, not the biggest one (of course depending on the size of your dog, if he's huge you preperly need the biggest one).

Anyway, if you get a crate that is too big, keep in mind that involves a lot more costs, especially when the animal is transported by cargo. Also, the dog is more protected in a good fitting one in case there is air turbulence or during transport on the ground.

With a good fitting one, I mean one where your dog can stand up and lay down comfortably. For this you'd better measures his sizes from top head (not tip of ears) to ground and nose till tail onset.

Second: I recommend AGAINST SEDATING! See following comment (copied from the pinned subject 'importing animals, page 3)

<quote I hope you are not going to give them something to make them sleep. Sedatives suppress the respiratory system of the dog and aircraft are pressurised at between two thirds and three quarters of normal atmospheric pressure, this lowers the blood pressure of both humans and animals. Sedatives generally work by lowering blood pressure so the combined effect could be detrimental to the well being of your pet. It can also cause disorientation. Several airlines will not accept your pet if they are sedated <unquote>

Besides the danger of a lower blood pressure, when an animal is sedated, it may not notice when the tongue slips back in the back of the throat, with suffocation as a result. The sedation medication can also cause disorientation, which can cause serious mental problems to the animal.

IMO, best thing you can do, is a proper crate training. Make the crate his safe haven. This safe haven you can take with you wherever you go (later on in Thailand or where ever). There are people who give Rescue Remedy (Bach Flower remedy). However, it will not work for a very long time such as 12 hours. It can, though, calm your dog down during the travel to the airport, during check-in and take-off. it does not sedate or makes the animal disorientated, just a little calmer. RR you have to start with a few days before travel (4 drops on the gums 4 times day), but how many days before travel I'm not sure (I suggest a week). Maybe somebody else on the list can recommend better on this one.

Further, it is advisable NOT to feed your dog at least 6 hours before the flight, although I usually give the last meal 8 to 10 hours before. Also don't give food in the crate. Dogs can easily go without food for 48 hours, even 36 hours. Not that they enjoy it, but they CAN do it without any health consequences.

Depending on the weather, don't let your dog drink lots of water for at least two hours before check in and provide him with a long good walk where he can release himself.

As, MTW mentioned, if you decide to put a water bottle on the crate, you need to train your dog to drink from it. And, check before you buy it that it doesn't leak!

Didn't mentioned it before, but welcome to Thailand! Hope you will enjoy it as much as most of us do

Nienke

Hello

I am coming to live in Thailand in the next few months. I am bringing my German Shepherd with me. He will be flying with Thai Airways on the same flight as me. I am really worried about him being cooped up for 12+ hours in his crate. I have been given conflicting advise whether to crate train him or not. Has anyone got any really good tips on how to make this process as painless as possible for him. And before anyone suggests it - No I cannot leave him in the UK

Thanks

I certainly would crate train him. A dog that never has been in a crate, might kinda freak out when enclosed in such a small area and then for such a long time.

What you can do is buy the crate and put it in your living room. Bet your dog will check it out. When he sniffs the door praise him enthousiastically and give him a delicious treat. If he put his nose in or goes all the way in, praise even more and give him a jackpot (a handful of delicious treats), preferable IN the crate with the door open. Do not close the door!

If step one went well, you can go to step two. Put the crate in such a place in your living room where the dog can have good view on, for him, important spots such as the door. If he doesn't show fear you can put his food in the back of the crate with the door open. When the dog goes in to eat the food, just praise him, do furthermore nothing but let him eat his food. You can also fill his bowl half, and refill after he has finished while praising him and putting the bowl back in the back of the crate.

In case, your dog is reluctant to go in the crate, you have to build in some more steps: food bowl in front of the crate, foodbowl inside in front of crate, foodbowl in middle of crate, foodbowl in back of crate. Build up slowly, always watching your dog as he will indicate how much he can handle.

If this step went well, you can continue with step 3: closing the door half way while he's eating. When your dog is finished he can open the door by himself.

Step 4: eating with door pushed closed, but not locked, so he will be able to push it open.

Step 5: eating while door is closed and locked. But you open the door one split second after your dog is finished. If your dog goes in easily (following his food), then you can introduce a command such as 'CRATE", while pointing with your finger.

Step 6: Give command "CRATE", dog goes in and give him his food. Close and lock the door. When he is finished, you wait a few seconds before opening the door, while praising him for being quiet.

Step 7: Build this up to 30 minutes, then to one hour in the crate. For example when you are watching television.

Step 8: Dog is crate for a certain amount of time and you leave the room. First only go and back, then slowly increasing the time. Always praise your dog when being quiet in the crate.

Step 9: Command your dog in the crate during other hours of the day. First only command, praise, reward, and let him out. Then, slowly build up: command, praise, leave him in for a certain time, praise again and give him his treat when letting him out.

Step 10: Have your dog crated during the night. I had a boxer that went to Holland. During the months she stayed with me before travelling, she slept in a crate. (in my bedroom with my own dogs, because of my enormous weakness for this breed )

Step 11: Take the crate with you every time you take the dog with you (preferable, often). During travel your dog is crated.

Never, use the crate as a punishment, but make it his home, that you can take with you everywhere, and in which he feels comfortable and safe.

Hope this will be of some help to you,

Nienke

here she is ... Chinese New Year in her piglet outfit .... <Love me Love my Dog ... event at Central Festival Phuket>

Very cute with her big ears and big eyes

Here two pic's from a chihuahua mix i've presently in boarding. Ain't she gorgeous? Her name is Ricky, but i named her Licky-Licky because that's her favorate past time

She is very caring of her fellow doggy friends: cleans their ears, cleans their eyes, cleans their mouthes, cleans their butts ...

I've never wanted a guard dog .... an 'alarm' dog or whatever is ideal .... chihuahua's are great! They'll let you know when someone they don't know is around! and yet the liability of them injuring an innocent is limited to toenails!

Only toenails? They are like piranya's!

And, since ModDam the pic's you just showed, you haven't taken any other anymore?

Getting back to the original topic, Nienke, can you address my question about the puppy not giving any signals of needing to eliminate (or of even knowing he's doing so)?? Because without any advance notice by the time we can grab the dog and put him in the toilet area he's already finished his business and moved away from where he did it (this puppy as I mentioned is nonstop motion) , which I think adds to his not understanding the message...

Is it possible he is simply too young? We don't know his age but it's certainly less than 8 weeks. Some teeth have come in but he still tries to suckle. ?4-6 weeks maybe??

Some teeth only now? Wow, that's very young. They must have sold the poor creature right after weaning, about 3 weeks of age.

Beside the potty training, this pup grows up without any contact with other dogs (littermates and a mother that will correct it when necessary) and, thus very prone to all sorts of behavior problems later in life. And might end up in the Pom you've described in a former post.

Pups/dogs normally will not eliminate there where they eat and sleep. If confined to a small area in the beginning, then the pup very well will by itself choose another area, such as some newspapers on the ground, a litterbox or a box with sand in this area to release itself.

But, if allowed to run freely through the house, it has no clue where is appropriate and where not. That has to be taught.

It is very possible the pup is pretty quick when it feels the need. Therefore, it requires hawks eyes watching every moves it makes all the time when loose. If the appartment/room or house is big, then that's a very difficult thing to do for the owner, as it means you have to be in the pup's neighborhood all the time. That's another reason why a confined area is a good option.

There is just not an easy way of training the pup. The owner has to spend time and effort in the toilet training which requires her to be there all the time. If that's not possible due to work or study, then the consequence is a house soiling dog.

Nienke