w94005m

As noted elsewhere, there is an appeal to the Government to give a 2 month extension to all Visas during the current nightmare with COVID-19. Would be very grateful if as many as possible could endorse and reach out to family and friends to do the same.

https://www.change.org/p/thai-ministry-of-foreign-affairs-appeal-for-thai-government-to-provide-2-two-month-extension-of-stay-to-all-foreigners?recruiter=1068649315&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive&utm_term=share_petition&recruited_by_id=53053860-73b4-11ea-a38f-3519ddd2c706

Thank You

32 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

A relative staying with us was refused a letter by the BE because flights to the UK are available. 

Same experience. UK Embassy sucks. I needed a letter to Certify my passport and explained to the UK Embassy that I was unwilling to travel from Jomtien to Bangkok for a normal interview under the current circumstances and could they do that electronically. They explained that they would only do that, if I could not get a flight to the UK, where I have no intention of going.

At least the Australian government has a decent virus plan, so hope that gives you a better chance of the Embassy being a little more practical and actually trying to help their citizens during these unprecedented times.

On 3/13/2020 at 4:13 PM, pixeltrix said:

Is possible to open bank account on non imigrant 90 days B visa?

I have a Bangkok Bank account with about 200,000 baht, but it's in Buriram and I wanted to open one with Bankok Bank in Jomtien, where I want to get the "retirement" visa. Was in Laos for 2 years and only have tourist visa now, but do have condo rental. However, they refused, even though I am an existing customer. I may try a different branch just to be sure.

They said, much as in the old thread in CharlieH's post, that without a work permit or condo ownership, I need a certified letter from Embassy to confirm my passport isn't fake or a letter from one of my UK or USA banks. Showing them electronically or whatever is apparently way too modern for Thailand.

Going to try the bank first, as there is no way I am going up to BKK to my Embassy with Covid-19 ongoing. There are online options with the Embassies, but they are expensive and slow.

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

MoPH has just today posted a new Q&A document about all these kinds of issues, including one that specifically addresses the question of how people who only TRANSIT thru Disease Impact Zone airports are going to be treated here....  But even the latest Q&A update seems to be lacking in any specifics on just exactly how the self-monitoring reporting will be done.

 

https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/file/main/Q&A_Measures_Travelers_160320.pdf

 

When I arrived a few days ago at suvarnabhumi from the UK, was expecting to be thermal scanned, but no, they were only interested in Disease Infected Zones. Went past the T8 area and stopped there, but they had no interest, only yellow fever. So, continued onto immigration expecting to have to register/fill in an app, show my medical insurance and anything else, but nothing. Just stamped my passport as usual and waved me on.

So as noted on https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/file/main/Q&A_Measures_Travelers_160320.pdf, I'm just planning on calling the disease control if I exhibit any symptoms. I believe the # is 1422

Anyone know if I'm doing anything wrong?

I wonder what percentage of the self-righteous expats here have ridden a motorcycle in Thailand, thinking they have a licence and insurance, when they only have a car license. In the UK, you need to have a separate motorcycle licence, which I'm willing to bet a hefty percentage do not have. My scan for this suggested that only about 1% of car license holders actually hold a full motorcycle license. They would also probably be denied insurance payouts for the same reason, which may indeed be the case here. I did not see sufficient details to list the precise situation here.

3 minutes ago, rossd said:

Quite simple really "just forget about her" and move on with your life.

The hypocrisy and the utter failure of the system is soul destroying. Every time as I prepare our next visa application, this is a constant reminder. Easier said than done, but I appreciate that I should probably not waste my time on anything to do with it.

I'm just interested in member's opinions on the following subject, which is driven by my gf and my inability to obtain a simple UK visit visa for her after living together for almost 2 years in Laos and starting a restaurant business together. Despite extensive supplied evidence, so that we can simply go visit my Mum. I am a UK/USA national.

However!!! The issue that I have found out about, is that I have just been told of a working ladyboy from Laos, who first worked in Pattaya and then in Malaysia before she was arrested and deported for gross overstay of visa and working illegally. Fair enough, but then when she comes back to Laos, somehow she meets a pimp from London who a month later has gotten her a visa and she is now apparently working in London, paying him her a percentage of her earnings. This has all happened in the last month.

To say I am furious is a gross understatement and I do not have her name nor the type of visa, but what would you do under such circumstances? 

On 7/25/2018 at 2:15 PM, AlexCanada said:

I'm trying to understand why Pattaya taxi drivers believe it's more expensive to live in Pattaya than Bangkok?  I think it's comparable.  Traffic isn't any worse.  

 

Bangkok taxi drivers are very underpaid.  So much so that one who takes a direct route without any direction from myself gets a significant tip.  Taxi drivers in both cities should be paid the same for base fare as well as per km.  60-80 baht start plus 10 baht per km seems fair.  

 

Bottom line, even if an agreement is sorted out nothing will come of it unless meter usage has significant fines and penalties that are enforced.  

I would actually think that Pattaya is cheaper to live in? It is for the 'working' girls.

I do know one taxi driver in BKK well and it is really tough for them to make money. For me I wouldn't have a problem with slightly more expensive fares in BKK. They are fantastic value at the moment, but I absolutely agree that the same sort of rates should apply in Pattaya too,  with notable penalties for drivers who try to skip the meter or do the wrong, long route.

I do try to take a pick of their license in case of probs and if good, tip well in BKK.

On 7/25/2018 at 9:54 AM, Jingthing said:

Yes of course but with the transport "mafia" being so firmly entrenched here that's just too much to realistically hope for.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Have the official rules set, so that there is not the same opportunity for them to make money and force them try to get their claws in elsewhere or even better, untrench them and get them off to jail. Just a pity that most of the time the police have their hand in the process too ?

One can dream - LOL!

I was told by my vet in the USA and my ex-fiancee who was a dog breeder that brushing your dogs teeth each day is just about the best thing that you can do for their health and longevity.

The first thing to note is that you really do need special dog toothpaste. As well as helping the teeth, it is something that they can eat and it tastes good, so it's something that they can look forward too. Human toothpaste is not good for your dog. I have no idea what's available in Thailand, you may as previous posters have suggested have to buy online, but it's much better to get toothpaste rather than a gel that you just smear on. The brushing action does of course help prevent the buildup of tartar.

Unfortunately, it's easiest to start with when they're a puppy, starting later is tougher and you definitely need to be very patient - little by little till they get more and more used to it.

Good luck - it should save you a lot on vet bills, as well as improving their life.

On 5/30/2018 at 9:02 AM, Berkshire said:

Funny, but I recall a thread recently where a farang guy was suggesting that it was his absolute God-given right to drive slow in the fast lane.  You two should get together.

 

 

That would be an American. They're entitled to drive wherever they like or so they think!!!! Live there for 20 years like I did and you'll appreciate the Thai driving standards a little more!

20 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Apologies to the OP; I just read back through the thread and see he has a Business visa for Laos. If that's for a full year, I'm very surprised the visa was refused.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes. It is for a full year and that was all supplied along with my stay permit in the passport and visa document, which was headerized and with page numbers.

46 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

I am still struggling to work out why this was rejected. I wonder if there was just too much in the letter?? 

In the next application I would focus particularly on the fact that you are living together and have been since October 2016. You have a settled life to return to once the visit is over.

List the visits you have made together with dates and passport copies/stamps to confirm this.

It is well established that it can be difficult to provide evidence that you live together! Most people talk rather than email! Make it clear that you provide housekeeping money in cash as is the local norm.

Perhaps get someone independent living locally to confirm you live together, the address and dates.

Bullet points can be useful rather than waffle.

For good measure it might be worth a comment along the lines of:

"I am concerned that the Entry Clearance Officer seems to have difficulty accepting that I am a ladyboy and fear this may be influencing his or her decision making."

Never hurts to play the sexism/ageism card!

 

I really wonder if this is a case of not seeing the wood for the trees! 

Best of luck!

 

Many Thanks for your opinion and suggestions. It's good to know that I'm not alone in being confused. I tried to be short, but informative in the initial application to start with and that didn't work! As I said there were some other points raised on other documents which showed they had not been read and even a lie. No address for her parents was stated when it was explicitly on the application form.

I'm scared to say anything negative and piss off an ECO!

I'm interested to hear what the UK Immigration lawyer says.

On 5/27/2018 at 5:59 AM, Pat in Pattaya said:

Git - I know you don't know how it will effect future applications, but it seems that your gut feeling is that it could get more complex?

 

We are planning our trip end of Sept, maybe  should get my skates on even if it is still a way off?

Always good to start soon. If you've gotten a visa before, highly likely that you'll get one again or if you can tick off the 'perfect' requirement list for your gf/wife, lengthy job, good salary paid to bank account and big money saved.

If not, good to be safe and do it 3 months before as that you will give you a chance to reapply should they come up with something. I genuinely feel that if you are unlucky and get the wrong person on a bad day, you could be rejected for no good reason,

So the points on the genuineness of the relationship from the first application. This is exactly what was stated, including punctuation or lack of (bad grammar noted):

 - I note the offer of support from Mr you state your boyfriend Mr Alastair Marshall. You state you have been in a relationship since October 2016, that you have lived together since October 2016, that you have lived together since and that he regularly financially supports you.

- Aside from a copy of 4 images from your social media account and some unclear images of Mr Marshall travel history, there is no clear indication that your circumstances and relationship is as you claim.

- Whilst I appreciate that you have submitted an undated invitation letter from Mr Marshall given that there is limited evidence you show contact or support during 2016 to date, I am not satisfied that this is a genuine, subsisting relationship and this casts doubt on your intentions as a visitor as a whole.

... therefore not satisfied you intend to leave...

Firstly, my fault for not dating my letter, so fair enough, though, and I had not tried to provide too many media shots to avoid the letter being too long, but my travel history was readable and tied up to date with my girlfriends, plus there was a lot more detail than noted above. And I stated we met in October 2016 and had been loving together in Laos since January 2017, just as my girlfriend also noted.

Anyway, specifically in response to these points, I provided full details on our ongoing contact, swearing under oath as best I could that everything was genuine, being together every day and night. The prior supplied "travel history" was readable, but instead I supplied + a full document indexing with numbers all trips I took, with the same red numbers by all the stamps and exactly the same from my girlfriends passport, so they could easily see we travel everywhere together. So that this could be quickly scanned and seen to be accurate. Printed on a high quality printer.

My letter was long, since previously it was described as limited and included media shots together at our home or with family or friends, for which there was something every few days to endorse our time together. I was disappointed with the first rejection, but I could understand that it was not perfect enough. However, with the full detail in the second and the full mutual travel history document with passports and stamps, including my business visa an stay permit, valid for another 7+ months. I did provide other requested documents, but these were the ones relating specifically to these raised points. I also swore in the letter that I would be returning to Laos, so to stay together she had to come back with me. I have not lived in the UK since 1997.

For finance we live together, so I give her money each month for food, I buy the odd gift and if her family are having difficulties, we send them a little to help and I pay everything else, rent, nights out, buses when we travel and any hotels when we visit her family. Her father works for the Laos government, but I do not pay a set sum into her bank account each month. To me that's more like you would do that if you were paying someone to be with you and not in a genuine relationship. Instead, paying someone to me your companion i.e certainly not a genuine relationship. Certainly my parents did exactly as we do with money and she made a little money from her job in a salon.

Anyway, the response letter which came back included a whole bunch of other crap, including wanting letters from my Mum, which was never mentioned previously, but most disturbing for me was the one on the relationship, which I had addressed as fully as possible, for which they stated the following as point 1:

- You wish to travel to the UK for 21 days to visit your partner's family members. I am aware that you have previously been refused when applying to visit the UK for this purpose. I have taken into account that you have provided details of your partner. I note that he is a British National and you state that you intend to marry, but you wish to visit his mother before marrying. You application does not state that your partner's mother has invited you to the UK for this purpose. With your application, you have provided a copy of your partner's passport and travel history, as well as social media screenshots. Your previous refusal notice outlined concerns over the nature of this relationship, and the documentation provided with this application does little to address those concerns. This undermines your intentions in travelling to the UK at this time.

We are starting a business together and no problem to get my Mum to provide a letter, but the above has me most concerned, as I felt my supporting letter and full MUTUAL (not just my as stated above) travel details addressed the genuineness. I am attaching a redacted comment of my supporting letter. It is 100% accurate and as noted full, due to the prior limited references. Perhaps you could tell me why that does not support the genuineness of the relationship? As far as I've been concerned, I've never even mentioned some of my prior girlfriends on facebook, as to me it is an official relationship notification to family and friends. Till I know I want to be with someone, it doesn't happen. I think the same is true for most people?

My mum has very limited time here as she continues to remind me. She even doubts that she will be there for my next planned trip in October. Once she goes there is no desire to go to the UK together.

I have made appointments here in UK to seek legal advice whilst I visit my Mum, as I am at a loss as to how to proceed further. Currently, it feels impossible till many years go by.

AlastairSupporting Letter1-33.pdf

AlastairSupporting Letter34-67.pdf

18 hours ago, bobrussell said:

I very much doubt that there is a time limit per application. Just a number to be processed each day.

The fact that you have applied unsuccessfully for visas in itself helps support an on-going relationship!

To help the ECO it is important to structure the documentation so it is very easy for the ECO to process.

Obviously the form needs to be completed in full!

Covering letter should clarify the reason for the visit, detail your relationship, show how the visit is going to be funded and then outline the reasons to return.

Reasons for visit is simple, detailing your relationship could require evidence you are living together (letter from landlord or rent payments should do), confirmation that you intend to continue to live together should help with reasons to return. Employment details and permission to be absent will help if applicable.

The sex of your partner is completely irrelevant to the application.

Don't bog the ECO down with trivia but provide evidence. Marriage does not always ease a visit visa application.

Make sure you number each page and refer to things in the covering letter or an index. State that all pages are present when the application is made and request that missing pages be notified to you

 

Not sure from what you have said as to why the application was rejected. A redacted copy of the rejection letter is always helpful!

I did provide a much information as possible, but Laos is one of the worst countries for documentation. Very few people have salaried jobs unless in Vientiane or they work for a bank/government. Most people are paid in cash, but the disturbing thing aside from it was clear that they had not read a significant part of the provided, but it was the fact on the proof of relationship, that they continue to query despite what I provide.

I had every page numbered with a header line that included the document name and separate index, as you noted.

BTW: Here's a note on application times. I have a lot more!!! I do a lot of research to try to make applications as thorough as possible with the lack of helpful info on the official website.

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/83580/what-roughly-is-the-time-an-eco-would-take-to-process-a-uk-standard-visitor-visa

Thanks for the info. 

On 5/26/2018 at 5:17 PM, cme said:

The whole UK Visa system is screwed up at the moment. Here in Europe we go to the UK for a month each summer. My wife has applied for and received a  6 month Holiday Visa for the past 7 years. From applying to returned Passport with Visa never took longer than 2 weeks. Last year it took 6 weeks, had to cancel first few days of our holiday, so this year she applied in March, after 9 weeks we are still waiting so yesterday I sent an email (cost £5-60) and they replied that they hope to have an answer within 15 working days! Nothing has changed in my or her circumstances in between these years. I think the UK is really trying to deter anybody from going there.

I've made an appointment with an Immigration Lawyer in the UK for next week. And will post on here what they had to say about their current experiences.

13 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

''The objective is to satisfy the 3 criteria for a Standard Visitor Visa; Genuine relationship/reason to visit, financial adequacy and reasons to return.''

 

 

But that is still all down to the interpretation of the ECO....what one person may think is genuine relationship or a good enough reason to return, another may not. It is nowhere near as straightforward as you make out, which is why we hear stories about some getting a visa that had a lesser case than some that didn't. 

100% agree

Firstly thanks to everyone for their input. I will post the precise first application refusal as soon as I have it next week, but I know the 2 main objects were.

1 - Insufficient evidence that this was a genuine relationship (first and prime reason on each rejection letter)

I had supplied of course my covering letter detailing how we met, when/how we decided to live in Laos, our travels together, especially time with her family and where/why we were living and always together expect when I visited my Mum and she was hospitalized in the UK. I provided only a few facebook shots as evidence and they implied that they wanted much more.

So I obliged and provided more detailed information and evidence as best I can of us being together every day and night which we are. There was no objection to the Facebook shots. These unlike one person noted are not photographs, which could be from any time. They are date stamped public proof announcing to all your friends, you are together, where, what you are doing and who you are with. What could be better? And at no point have the immigration people said they are not welcome. So they were included.

To say on the second rejection that they still felt there was no reason to feel that this was a genuine relationship was mind blowing and I don't know what more I can do for that. That makes me feel that any future applications are worthless unless we get married, which is more difficult as she is a ladyboy, She wants to get married and I hope for that at some time, both stated in the application. We are starting a business together, but in Laos you can't do that jointly. It can only be in her name and the same for anywhere we rent for that. So that doesn't appear to help and I did detail that in the second application too, but that whole document was clearly unread by the officer.

2- Insufficient passport history and not readable

This was fair enough as my passport was renewed 3 months into the relationship and I did not have the prior passports in Laos. The stamps that I provided were absolutely readable, but whatever! So on the second application I put all the passport shots in there having gotten those from the UK and numbered each one in/out of Laos and to where and indexed them into an easily readable list, which was mirrored with the same stamps from her passport to show everything was identical and in sync. All printed on a high quality resolution device. I also provided my Laos business visa and stay permit with 7 months remaining validity and endorsing that Laos was my home, not the UK, where I have not lived for over 20 years.

They incorrectly referred to this document as just my passport stamps in the refusal letter, which strongly indicated that they did not realise that our stamps were completely synchronized and of course in line with facebook postings. I also sub-consciously felt that all my travel for Laos, except for visits into the UK are in my US passport. It just seemed like if it was in the UK passport, it would have been better.

Point 1 is the problem as I am at a complete loss to know what else I can provide to prove our relationship short of getting married? It will shortly be two years that we have been together.

As I said before the sad thing is my girlfriend has no interest to go to the UK other than to make me happy by seeing my Mum. I call her every day and her sole source of happiness these days is to know that I am good. So for her to be really happy with my partner, she has to spend some time with her to see that I am in good hands. She is a worrier and I really feel that would help her live longer.

Anyway, I'll get the full first rejection quote up hopefully next week when I get that from my Mum's home where I keep all my paperwork.

Thanks for reading this.

I have read and heard that a UK ECO only gets 3-4 minutes to read the documents supplied with a UK visitor visa, then make a decision and that this is quite strongly enforced. This appears to mean that unless your partner ticks the simple boxes like, home ownership, married, job, good salary, together long time, it's a refusal.

First time, I supplied shorter documents with a few photos and they came back with not believing that it was a genuine relationship and wanted more evidence. So this time, I sent in facebook shots every few days or so, with us and her family (parents grandparents, siblings...), different places and at our home, as we have been living together for 18 months in Laos and my gf especially posts on there regularly! I used Facebook shots as it shows that it's visible to all friends and has date stamps to easily verify when they are from. Along with matching passport history made easily readable with numbering of each trip together by the appropriate stamps to show everything matched up for mutual travel, along with other documents for travel/work and finance.

From the rejection letter, it was clear that they had not read most of the supplied documents, even though I'd broken them all down with page headers/number and footers to make it easily readable. I'd also originally provided it in separate plastic folders as someone had suggested (not stapled or clipped in any way), but apparently they threw that away and just put them into one pile of papers at the initial session with VFS Laos at the UK Embassy. They also insisted on a printout of the application, even though their checklist specifically said this was not required. Thankfully I'd fully indexed, headerized and numbered everything to make the documents and sequence easy to follow, but it appears to have been worthless.

So how on earth can you have them decide if it's a genuine relationship when they only have such a short time and they're clearly only going to read a fraction of what is supplied? And they've probably made a preset judgement anyway.

How many total pages do you think one should be supplying to try to address questioned issues like relationships and what would you provide to endorse that you are 100%  genuine couple? I am happy to supply the two referenced documents that I provided for any feedback.

Yes, I know refusal is a common discussion forum theme and I did my best to read everything and follow prior advice, but to no avail.

If anyone has any expert internal knowledge within the UK Immigration decision team on decision time and how many pages should be provided so they are all read, I'd love to hear it.

Also, I've now made 2 failed applications with my gf to visit and stay with my Mum in the UK. She has had two strokes and very nearly died last year in hospital, so I would desperately like her to spend time with my gf for a couple of weeks, which would make her very happy to see how good we are. Sadly she worries way too much about me. It feels like if I apply again, it's too early for them to do anything other than an automatic no regardless of what I supply. If it wasn't for my mum we would have no interest in going to the UK, but I desperately want her twilight days to know that I am in a good place and her to be happy with my hopeful wife. Someone from Australia suggested that I put up a large amount for ESCROW to guarantee my gfs return with me, which i am very happy to do. Does that work with the UK?

It's amazing how different rules get applied. I supplied my bank statements with over 20,000 pounds for several months and made it clear that i was paying for everything. I did also supply her bank book with the lead bank pages and the latest up to date balances 40 milion kip. We've also lived together 24/7 for 18 months in Laos.

And one of the reasons given for rejection was that "she had insuffient economic funds to justify her return and regardless the balance pages did not list her account number."

I was amazed as the funds obviously could easily be transferred or used anywhere.

I do not have the exact text from the prior rejection, but it simply doubted the validity of our relationship. It stated that the facebook snapshops/photos I supplied showed only a tiny time-frame making them insufficient. They also claimed that they could not read my passport  stamps on the supplied document, although no-one else I showed them to had any problem. Therefore they doubted the genuineness of the application and whether she would return to the UK. I had tried not to post an excess of information, as I had heard that too much was even worse than too little.

I believe I have the documents in the UK  and I will post the exact text as soon as I have that to hand. I will be there in a week's time.

This time I provided a complete timeline of pictures and posts, every few days mainly from an easily date verifiable source (Facebook), which made the document very long, but I felt fully endorsed our relationship. I provided a bunch of other documentation, and it seems like they barely read the first page and were just pissed off. In all my years in business, I have never been exposed to such brutal personal rejection as you feel that you get from the UK Immigration.

I am a UK citizen born and bred, but lived in the US for 20 years where I also got citizenship. Now living in Laos since early January 2017 and my gf is a ladyboy. The impression that I have gotten is those 2 facts are basically going to give a rejection every time.

The sole reason for going to the UK as I made very clear in my letter is for us to spend time with my Mum for a few weeks, whom I care about enormously and speak to every day. For her to know that I am in good hands here at her age of 93 and in poor health after 2 strokes would be beyond measure. Her sole worry these days is that I am happy and for her to meet my girlfriend and see that she takes great care of me would be so incredibly valuable to my happiness. She cannot see well because of her last stroke and has very limited hearing, so trying to talk with my gf over video phone, just doesn't work well for her. She can barely  see me well enough to see how I am doing. And as I know well from business, talking electronically to someone you don't know is so hard to establish anything like the same dynamic as being personally together.

To wait another year or whatever for them to see we have been living together longer than our current 18+ months will probably be past my mum's lifetime and would remove the sole need to go to the UK. It seems like I am dammed either way to prove the seriousness of the relationship. Too little or too much documentation seems to make no difference. I was very surprised by your photos comments as I read extensively on the internet and the consensus seemed to be the more the better and over as long a period as possible.

My gf herself has no interest to go to the UK. She only wants to go as she knows my Mum is very important, just as her family is critical to her. It's heartbreaking on a daily basis for my Mum to not know personally who I am with and of course when I go to visit my Mum, typically 3 times a year for a few weeks as I have done for 20+ years with US girlfriends in tow, means I am away from my gf for a long chunk of time, so at no point in the year is there a mutually good personal time for me. The two most important people in the world to me, cannot be together.

I am just lost with what to do. And that is despite spending an enormous amount of time researching this. Everything we have done has been 100% genuine, but basically to be called a liar, despite trying to be as accommodating to requirements as possible is just soul destroying. This is the first time anyone has ever made me feel like this.

I am sure that if she had a salaried job from a bank or government, all their objections would disappear, but that is the minority of Laos people who are in that fortunate situation. Almost everyone I know here, makes their own money and makes so little, that they do not even file taxes.

I will get the prior letter as quickly as possible.

Thanks again for your thoughts and comments.