Mike Teavee

This could be viewed as "Evasion" if you plan to change it to THB, but I've brought £7,500 from the UK & plan to use it when I'm travelling outside of Thailand (I.e. exchange it for MYR, PHP, VND, TWD, SGD etc...), typically I'll get a better rate using GBP to buy other currencies than I would for THB so it's a double win for me. One way to reduce tax is to reduce how much money you need to remit by spending less in Thailand, for me that means taking more holidays outside of Thailand. We typically spend >60 nights in hotels travelling around Thailand which we'll now spend most of visiting other countries Airfares* & Hotels being paid for on my UK credit cards - We planned on doing more overseas travelling anyway, this just gives me an added incentive to do it - a double loss for Thailand. *NB It's questionable whether the Airfare would count as remitting money to Thailand as I'm using a service from Thailand but I don't think anybody could argue that booking a hotel in Vietnam on a UK Credit Card would count as remitting money into Thailand.

It's up to the individual to look at their circumstances & assess what the best course of action is for them, I'm one of those people that tends to follow the rules so will be adjusting how much money I remit into Thailand & limiting it to... Maximum I know has no tax owed on it (in my case it's 235K) Same for the GF (in her case 210K) ... But I won't be filing a tax return for either of us, even though I know I should, the 2K file is not enough of a deterrent to make me file especially as it would end up with them owing me > 5K in withheld interest from my Thai Bank accounts. The rest of the money I need to live on will come from savings already in Thailand until 2026 when I plan on spending 6 months outside of Thailand, & applying for an LTR Visa (remitting 10-12 Million to buy a Condo & meet the $250K investment needed for the LTR). I can't be the only one that's going to be remitting less money because of this change, would be interesting to get any stats on just how much less is being remitted as a direct result of the change (I'd say I'm remitting approx. 25% of what I would normally plan to remit)

You posted... I am Australian. In Australia, if you do not supply your bank with your individual Tax File Number (TFN) the bank withholds tax at the highest marginal rate on any interest earned. Simple for the bank to implement. A computer does it it all, and sends the money to the Australian Tax Office. (ATO). At the request of the RD, what's stopping Thai banks doing the same, but not for interest earned, but for all remitted funds? Which I think anybody would read as Banks withholding Tax on Remittances. However, if your point is around Banks providing remittance data to TRD then that is exactly what I expect to happen & believe they'll use this data when deciding who to audit.

Technically No I wouldn't agree - We always should have been conscious about when Income was Earned Vs when it was remitted & filed returns where necessary. Practically Yes I would agree, I've never heard of anybody being Tax Audited for not declaring Income earned in the same year as it was earned, those who understood the rules may have filed returns & paid any necessary taxes, but those who didn't I don't believe were at any risk of being audited, even when bringing in several Million THB to purchase a Condo etc... It just always seemed to be assumed that it came from Savings/previous year's income.

Interest is "Income" generated for you by the Bank & (Tax efficient accounts aside) is always taxable (even if you're not Tax Resident), so it makes sense for the Government to ask the banks to retain it. Remittances are not always taxable & are dependant on you being Tax Resident so it makes sense for them to ask you to report it at the end of the Tax Year...

To be clear there is no new policy only a change to the implementation of an existing policy that means people who maybe weren't following the old policy correctly now have questions on how it works, but the way it works hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is prior to 1/1/24 any income "Earned" in a previous Tax Year was treated as savings, which meant you could earn income from Dividends, Rent, Capital Gains, Overseas Employment etc... sit on it until the following January 1st then remit it tax free however I am sure some people remitted income in the same year as it was "Earned" without realising that they should have been reporting it & it is only because it is now more likely that they will need to report it, that they're trying to understand the rules. But there is no difference in the way tax should be calculated between:- Getting a Dividend on 1/1/2020 & remitting it 31/12/2020 (Same Tax/Calendar Year) Getting a Dividend on 1/1/2024 & remitting it 1/1/2026 (Different Tax/Calendar Year)

With the exception of Tax that is withheld at source (e.g. PAYE, Interest on Bank Accounts, Dividends etc...), I think most Tax is done on an "Honesty" basis and relies on people declaring the right level of "Income" under threat of being audited. TRD have no automatic way of being able to delve into all of your financial affairs (They couldn't even point at my UK/SG Bank accounts as they have no way of accurately linking me to them) so the only way I can see them doing this is to set themselves criteria on what they're going to Audit & add in some Random Audits to keep people honest. E.g. Take a pool of people remitting money into Thailand... Remove everybody who has not spent 180 days in Thailand *Remove everybody who has remitted less than 120,000 THB Remove everybody who has an LTR visa that is exempt from tax on remittances .... Then from this pool, audit everybody who has brought in > X THB & a random Z% of the rest (could be a sliding scale depending on how much money has been remitted). *I would also add in a random Audit of people who were bringing in < 120,000 THB (maybe even higher) as I would be checking where they are getting the money from to live on (could be legit & their wives work so they don't need to bring in more than 120K) the threat of Audit would help deter people doing things like living off withdrawals from foreign ATM cards.

The Elite Visa is a essentially a Tourist Visa so not exempt from tax on income brought in from overseas, only the LTR has the exemption. The LTR exemption means your overseas sourced income is not assessable but you would still need to file a return if you had Thai sourced income (E.g. rental income or interest from your bank accounts) of > 60K as an individual, 120K for a joint return however you would not include your overseas income on the return.

Contact Maneerat in Pattaya, they did the conversion for 3 of my friends that made the move & it only took a few days, especially if you have a Bangkok Bank account already

Expires June 2025 but my extension is due end of September so if I don't renew it before then I'll only get 9.5 months instead of 12. As I got the passport in Oct 2014 (Used to get up to 9 months extra if you renewed it early) I was warned at the check-in desk that I would need to renew it before Oct 2024 if I wanted to travel to the Europe as even though there would be 9 months left on it, passports >10 years old are not valid for entering Europe. Wouldn't have been a problem flying MAN-AMS-BKK as you're not entering Europe (Don't pass through Border Control/Security in AMS) but you'd be relying on the check-in staff understanding that.

Though you're technically/"Legally" correct, each IO can implement their own policies & Jomtien/Sri Racha changed theirs in 2023 to require a TM30 dated after your last entry into Thailand for any immigration matters that you need to do with them... https://ground.news/article/chonburi-immigration-bureau-tightens-address-reporting I don't know if this is still in effect or if you'll be fined were you to turn up with a TM30 dated before your last entry but that could be where the Agent is getting their information from. Have to confess that I got back from the UK last Tuesday & have no intention of doing a new TM30 before I renew my Passport next month so will see if they need one when I have my stamps transferred over & pay the fine if I need to,

Trip to Pattaya? - Approx. 25K to do the conversion...

The technically correct answer is 120K if filing a single Return, 220K if filing a joint return, you don't take your allowances into consideration when it comes to whether you should be filing a return or not, it's just the assessable income that counts. Practically I'm remitting up to my total tax free number (235K for me) and if asked to file a return I'll plead ignorance & pay the 2,000B fine out of the 5,000B they'd owe me from withheld tax on interest in my Thai Bank account.

I honestly think TRD are just looking for you to do all of the calculations & declare what Tax you believe you owe, that way they don't need to update their systems to add sections for different kinds of income &, more importantly, don't need to understand the nuances of how various incomes are taxed in different countries... They'll just apply basic Tax fundamentals & assess whether what you are telling them passes the "Sniff Test". If it doesn't pass the "Sniff Test" they can audit you & check your calculations but again, I think they'll just be looking to see if what you're saying looks correct based on their local Tax knowledge & maybe a cursory knowledge of your countries tax, I don't believe they're going to become Tax Experts in all of the 61 countries that Thailand has DTA's with. Using my hobbyhorse of CGT as an example, I don't believe TRD cares about what cost basis you used to do the calculation from they just want to see the remitted income/what percentage of it was gains and as long as if audited you can show how you did the calculations & justify using that method (e.g. as a Brit dealing in British Assets I can argue the case for using Average Cost but couldn't legitimately argue a case for LIFO unless I was dealing in US Assets) then I don't think you'll have a problem passing the "Sniff Test".

I know that's the case for normal UK CGT calculations, but in the scenario where it's a Non-Dom remitting Gains into the UK from the US is it still the same calculation or could they avail themselves of the flexibility in the US rules to minimise the gain?

Although this does not meet the criteria of the example above, I came across this example of remitting interest to the UK which shows how the UK treats "Income" that has already been taxed in the Foreign Country ((again I'm using the UK as it's the only country I know that taxes foreign income on a remittance basis)... Jenny is taxable on the remittance basis and is liable to UK tax at the rate of 40%. Interest of £9,000 is paid into her foreign bank account after deduction of tax in the ‘other’ country at the rate of 10% which is available as a credit against UK tax on that income. Jenny decides to remit £4,500 of this interest to the UK. As Jenny has remitted half of the net amount of the interest she was paid, she’s able to claim half of the admissible foreign tax as a credit against UK tax on the income. Jenny must pay UK tax as follows: Amount Gross income £10,000 Foreign tax £1,000 Net amount £9,000 Amount Remitted amount £4,500 Available FTCR £500 Half the income has been remitted and so half the foreign tax is available as a credit against UK tax. Amount Taxable amount £5,000 UK tax (40%) £2,000 minus FTCR £500 Amount to pay £1,500 If Jenny does not claim FTCR but instead claims a deduction for the foreign tax paid, she is liable to UK tax on the amount remitted of £4,500 × 40% = £1,800 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/remittance-basis-hs264-self-assessment-helpsheet/remittance-basis-2021-hs264

I agree with you on the Property side & as already been mentioned, this can be a nightmare to calculate for UK/US guys who are selling property that isn't considered their primary property - in the UK we have to file a separate tax return within 60 days of completing the sale! For CGT, I think we're agreed on how to do the core calculation but what we don't know/agree on is what to use as the basis of the costs for the original assets (FIFO, LIFO, Average etc....) the videos I've seen seem to be saying that it's on you to calculate the gain & use the calculated percentage to work out what you're assessable income is & as Thailand doesn't seem to have a way of calculating it the only way I can see of doing it would be to apply the rules of the country in which the Asset is. As we don't know what Thailand uses, perhaps we could look to a similar scenario where Gains are remitted to the UK (Only other country I'm aware of that taxes Non Doms based on remittance) & where the rules are hopefully a bit clearer. So lets say we use an example of a German (or any other nationality apart from US/UK) Living & a Tax Resident in the UK remitting gains from shares in the US (Where they're Non-Citizen & Non-Tax Resident) on $12,000 of shares made up of 1,000 units bought as:- 300 @ $100 = $3,000 250 @ $110 = $2,750 250 @ $130 = $3,250 200 @ $150 = $3,000 ... The gain was made up by selling 200 units at $2 to give proceeds of $4,000... What would the reported "Income" be for their UK Return??? I'll leave it as a question in case there's anybody here who can provide the answer from experience rather than me trying to trawl through HMRC documents at 4:50am!!!

My 2 cents for a UK Expat only resident in Thailand would be 1. Thai CGT is applicable as there is no provision in the UK-TH DTA that would prevent you having to pay tax on a Gain even if you've already been taxed on it. 2. There wasn't a Gain so no CGT anyway. 3. Assuming the interest was "Co-Mingled" with the original savings then we're yet to get a conclusive answer on this but my opinion would be that as you cannot pick & choose which part of the monies you're spending, it would be a percentage of the overall remitted amount. E.g. I have have £100,000 in a bank account that pays 4% Interest and at the end of the year I have £104,000 If I were to remit all of that money into Thailand then the £4,000 would be Tax assessable, however if I spent £4,000 in the UK & remitted £100,000 then I believe the assessable income would be approx. 3.85% of the £4,000 interest earned i.e. approx. £154

Maybe I worded it badly, but by snipping my reply you're taking me out of context a little as I actually said that you do the calculation based on the rules of the country where the asset is & report the percentage gain to TRD, not that they would use the country's rules to calculate it. Nothing easier for TRD than you saying Here's $XX,000, YY% of it is the capital gain. Oh & I know exactly what you mean about the CGT regs around Non-Primary Property, they're just as bad in the UK - Something us Expats who only rent out our old homes (Not even Buy-2-Let) have to deal with when it comes time to sell them.

I get my UK CGT knowledge from actually writing the code for the UK's largest Stockbroker that calculated it for Bed & Breakfasting & the code that was used to produce annual CTC certificates, but that was pre the 1998 changes so admit things have changed since then, however how you calculate a Gain hasn't, perhaps you could share an alternative way of calculating the gain than the one I listed. Would also be interested in learning about any countries that use FIFO for doing (normal) Gains calculations & anything at all about how Thailand calculates CGT, from the Tax videos that I've seen it's on you to calculate the Gain and on your return apply that percentage to what you've remitted when listing your assessable tax - If you're not going to do it using the rules of the country that the Asset is in & the country you are resident in doesn't have any rules, what rules would you suggest should be used? I can't find the one that went into the calculation in more details but it's briefly covered in this one...

This maybe why the Expat Tax advisors have been saying that it's the Original Cost of the Asset that counts. Doing a calculation that says Cost X, Realised Y, %Gain = (Y-X)/Y is very straight forward & repeatable irrespective of which country the asset is held in, trying to understand the different tapered reliefs of 60 different countries is not!

Think about it, you are not bringing the Asset over to Sell, you're remitting the proceeds of selling that Asset so the Gains are calculated according to the rules of the country of the Asset (If for no other reason than you could have a tax obligation in that country) E.g. if I'm resident in the UK & sell some shares on the DAX, I don't apply UK rules to calculate CGT, I apply German rules & then declare the net Gain to UK RD when I remit the monies. Countries can tax that Gain at whatever rate they feel is appropriate & they can argue that you've got the calculation wrong, but they would have to do so by running through the CGT rules of the country of the Asset, and besides even if Thailand could use it's own calculation, it doesn't have any as it treats remitted Gains as Income Tax. Capital gains Most types of capital gains are taxable as ordinary income. However, the following capital gains are exempt from tax: Capital gains on the sale of shares in a company listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand, provided that the sale is made on the Stock Exchange of Thailand, and on the sale of investment units in a mutual fund. Gains on the sale of non-interest bearing debentures, bills, or debt instruments issued by a corporate entity, except in the case where the bonds or debt instruments were sold for the first time at a price lower than their redemption price to an individual. Gains on the sale of securities listed on stock exchanges in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) member countries and traded through the ASEAN Link, excluding securities in the form of treasury bills, bonds, bills, or debentures. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination -------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, having said all that out loud (or rather Typed it loudly 🙂), if we are following the rules of the country of the Asset then surely Taper relief must come into it, but Expat Tax videos I've seen say that it's the Original Cost of the Asset that's used. If I were calculating the CGT on some UK shares, I'd use a standard UK CGT calculator which would include Taper Relief & have the documentation to back up my rationale for why I came to the number I did, Worse case would be TRD re-calculate it without the Taper Relief.

I'm assuming you get an annual P60 (or equivalent) for your Civil Service Pension which should be all the proof you need to show TRD even if it is in comingled funds.

There a similar announcement about Visa Free travel to the UK a couple of months back But haven't heard a dickie bird since...

Not 100% sure about CGT paid on Property Sales (Most people don't need to) but for other asset sales there are no tax credits as UK Expats don't pay Capital Gains on the sale of (Non-Property) assets. See #4 of Article 14 from the DTA... Article 14 - Capital Gains (1) Capital gains from the alienation of immovable property, as defined in paragraph (2) Article 7, may be taxed in the Contracting State in which such property is situated. (2) Capital gains from the alienation of movable property forming part of the business property of a permanent establishment which an enterprise of a Contracting State has in the other Contracting State or of movable property pertaining to a fixed base available to a resident of a Contracting State in the other Contracting State for the purpose of performing professional services, including such gains from the alienation of such a permanent establishment (alone or together with the whole enterprise) or of such a fixed base, may be taxed in the other State. (3) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (2) of this Article, capital gains derived by a resident of a Contracting State from the alienation of ships and aircraft operated in international traffic and movable property pertaining to the operation of such ships and aircraft shall be taxable only in that Contracting State. (4) Capital gains from the alienation of any property other than those mentioned in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this Article shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident. (5) The provisions of paragraph (4) of this Article shall not affect the right of a Contracting State to levy, according to its own law, a tax on capital gains from the alienation of any property derived by an individual who is a resident of the other Contracting State and has been a resident of the first-mentioned Contracting State at any time during the five years immediately preceding the alienation of the property. NB. Point #5 is the UK "5 Year Rule" which stops people becoming Non-Resident for less than 5 years to avoid paying CGT, if Thailand were to implement something similar then it would scupper a lot of plans to do a Hotblack Desiato Edit: This explains the 5 year rule much better than I can 🙂 An individual needs to be non-resident for more than five years to escape UK CGT on assets owned at the time of departure (other than UK land and property) of which he or she disposes after leaving the UK. This five-year period is from when the individual’s sole UK tax residence ceases. If a non-resident becomes resident again in the UK during this five-year period, any assets sold after leaving the UK will be taxed in the UK when the individual returns. If he or she becomes resident again after this five-year period, any assets disposed of while non-resident will not be subject to UK CGT. If the individual purchases assets during a period of temporary non-residence, these assets will not be subject to UK CGT if sold while not resident, even if the individual returns before the end of this five-year period. Complications can arise in respect of the purchase during this temporary non-residence period of a further shareholding in a company that was already in existence at the time the individual left the UK, and the pooling rules that apply (see CG26600). As with everything, there are exceptions to this rule, which are explained in CG26610. Examples of such exceptions are: the transfer of assets between spouses or civil partners and the transferee then subsequently selling the asset during a period of temporary non-residence; and certain gains that have been rolled over into another asset, which is subsequently disposed of during a period of temporary non-residence. https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/gcabe/7-2