Mike Teavee

Again OP asked the question and didn't mention anything about gifts to relatives, so I answered as best possible. I "Gift" my GF 49,999 for her birthday (Fun fact Krungsri Bank is one of those where 50K is too much) same again at Christmas... Am I "Remitting money" to her (Probably) would I report it (Hell no)... It's her account she can do as she pleases

I'm a Brit so not the same at all but I loved the part where you said "I have lived in Thailand more than 30 years total". I truly hope that one day I can say the same (I'm only 5 years in) Fck this Tax <deleted> it is not going to stop me from living in my chosen country - Adapt & Overcome 🙂 Top marls to you 🙂

Sarcasm or not, I think you're right...

Seriously? That really makes sense to you? So it doesn't matter how/where the money came from as long as it's spent then it's not taxable? I give up trying to even begin to explain it so have at it...

Gave up on it mainly because Selena's voice gets on my nerves (how is she famous!) but also neither Martin Short or Steve Martin are remotely funny. I did love Steve in Airplane though (Joke, Leslie Nielsen had to stand in for him to make it funny).

My parents are Octogenarian (80) & Septuagenarian (75) & are not confident in paying that sort of money (£4,500 not sure where you got £1802.66 from) on their credit cards so asked their Son (who's done 38 years in Banking , IT never a Banker & lived in Asia for 16 years) to book it for them 🙂 That aside, this whole conversation should only be about theory, what you choose to do in reality is literally you choosing how to "Interpret the Rules".

I don't think you've understood anything I've try to say so I'll leave you to it, There's a Pidgeon waiting for a chess game...

Sorry... I thought I'd explained my thinking clearly... IMHO, my parents remitting the money (To me in Thailand) to pay for their flights meant that the money (UK Dividends from last month, clearly Taxable if remitted to Thailand) to pay the credit card for those flights was assessable. Can I ask which part of this doesn't feel right to you? [Again, I'm talking about Technically & not what happens in the real world]. And can I ask why you think "Income from UK Dividends" doesn't fit into the "8 categories of Thai Assessable Income"

Thank you, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make, "It's the funds that come into Thailand that count" & I was trying to answer on the grounds of it being "Technically Taxable" rather than the "Taxable in Reality" Example my mate who I "Loan" £6,000 to in the UK, none of the money he repays hits my bank account in Thailand (6 years ago we agreed that he would "Pay it of" on things like couple's weekends/dinner, me & him having a beer) Works for him as he gets to spread the "Debt" out over 4-6 months, works for me as I write the money off the moment it's gone so feels like free weekends away/dinners/drinks (I do know it's not really). But if asked the question, & answering honestly, I still believe that "Technically" I am remitting that £6K to Thailand - Practically can't see anyway they could prove it!

Again, trying to put a "Technical" opinion forward & not how it would work in the real world... "Technically" the money I get back from my parents is not a gift as it's clearly a reimbursement for the flights I've booked for them.... In the real world nobody would ever know (besides my Dad who has already reimbursed me the money to my UK account). UK is the only country that I am aware of that operates a "Remittance" based taxation system so it's where I look to for my opinions on how remittance might work around credit cards (even then it's only for a very selective group of people, UK Expats don't count).

Not so much overthinking, I was just trying to show a real world example of using a credit card to pay something for somebody & them paying you the money in your home country. The original question made no mention of family ties but in this case my dad has already xfered me the money to my UK account so no tax obligations (UK or Thailand) but I stand by the fact that it is clearly not a gift so would be tax assessable if he’d have paid me in Thailand. I do think the rules around “Gifts” must be a lot more complicated than you’ve suggested, otherwise anybody with parents/kids/siblings in their home country would never pay Tax in Thailand.

In a nutshell, if my parents send/bring me the money to Thailand to reimburse me for money I've spent for them on my UK credit card then I am effectively sending myself the money that I use to pay that credit card (in this example UK Dividends from September which if I had directly transferred would be assessable/taxable income). Think about it, if that wasn't the case then I could just pay all my parent's/siblings/kids bills in the UK from Credit Cards/Direct transfers & they could send me the money tax free? Objectively, does that make sense?

"how the amount is paid is utterly irrelevant" We'll agree to disagree, I've explained to you what I think, you are more than entitled to your opinion though from your next point it seems "how the amount is paid" is relevant... "If your parents bring £5000 (electronically or in currency) to Thailand for you it is either income (and assessable as such as it is outside any of the exemptions) or - because they are your parents - a gift from antecedents" It wouldn't be considered a "Gift" by HMRC as not only would it exceed £3,000 (my dad would be the one sending the money) but my parents would have received a "Tangible" benefit from it. They could bring me the cash & I could use a "Mule" to exchange it for me so as not to show up against my passport... but, we're supposed to be discussing the "Rules" not the chances of getting caught. I doubt Thailand would see it as a "Gift" either as the money would clearly be a reimbursement for an expense I paid (again, the point is not the chances of getting caught, the point is whether legitimately you are remitting money, and you are). End of the day I was just trying to show a real life example that matched the original question... Edit: I deliberately didn't mention Gifts in my original reply as the question was about a Loan & made no mention of a Family Thai so here's another (Real World) Example. Each year a friend of mine who works in Thailand invests £6,000 into his Pension in the UK, I send it to his Financial Advisor (from my UK Bank Account) & he gives me the equivalent (set at XE rate so we both win) in Thailand... Am I remitting that £6,000 to Thailand (IMHO, Yes I am).

FWIW I've just paid £4,500 on my UK Credit card for 2 x MAN-BKK tickets for my parents to come out to visit me, so far nothing to do with TRD as the money is for a service from the UK on a Middle Eastern airline & I get no "Tangible" benefits from it. My personal opinion on the different scenarios when it comes to paying the Credit Card bill:- I pay it off from UK Dividends I received last month - Nothing Tax Assessable. My parents transfer the money to me in the UK to pay it off - Nothing Tax Assessable. My parents send me the money to Thailand (Swift, Wise or even bring the cash with them) - Tax Assessable for me. It shouldn't matter whether Thailand is capable of finding out whether my parents brought me the cash as we're discussing the rules around remittances not the chances of getting caught doing something shady.

No You cannot apply for a DTV inside of Thailand so you can either get it via the UK... [For which you can use money in your Thai Bank account to support your application]. OR a local "Friendly" Embassy, best to checkout some of the other DTV thread for up to date reports of which Embassy's are currently "Friendly".... E.G.

https://ucrel.lancs.ac.uk/wmatrix/ukmanifestos2019/localpdf/Labour.pdf From Page 76 (Of 104). We will ensure that the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain.

It's just another one of those things that makes me feel like I actually live here & am not just here on a holiday... Everybody is free to do things how they want to, I'll pay <10K in tax & thank my lucky stars that I get to live in Thailand 🙂 Other's Mileage May Vary 👍

In a weird kind of way I'm looking forward to filing a return next year... Sort of makes me feel like a responsible grown-up.

I'm sorry I missed that, I thought you were talking about the credit card usage & not the paying for it part... Yes, it all depends on the source of the funds you use to pay the card debt off, (IMHO) it's no different to you sending yourself that money to purchase the goods/service. I recall another video (Retired Working for You) where a(n apparently) very respected Foreign "Tax Attorney" stated categorically that only funds "Repatriated" to Thailand would be subject to tax (ATM, Credit card etc... were Tax Free). I really suggest the "Expert" looks up the definition of "Repatriated" as I don't know about anybody else but all of the money I bring into Thailand is Expatriated (& according to him Free of Tax). Just got the parents a cracking flight deal for them to come over for a month in Jan, Booked in the UK & paid for on my UK credit card, IMHO absolutely not remitted income 🙂

You're not missing anything, the point is what funds are being used to pay off the credit card. Lots of people have speculated that they can just use their credit/debit card in Thailand and it's not remitted income, end of the day common sense tells you that it is & so the only point is whether the funds used to pay it off are from assessable income or not.

And another £2,800 just got bounced (121,867.04) so I guess I'll be paying a bit of Tax next year. I do wonder if I pay tax for 3 years on the bounce whether I'll be eligible to apply for PR 🙂 Edit: As an aside the 1st Transfer (To Bangkok Bank) will land sometime tomorrow (hopefully) the 2nd one hit my Kasikornbank account immediately.

Take a step back… Do you honestly believe that you paying for goods & services in Thailand with a credit card is not the same as you remitting money to pay for those services? The rest of it is about whether the funds used to pay of the credit card is assessable or not.

Anyways, I've just pulled the trigger on sending another £3,000 across (came out at 131,443.85 THB) so I'll be c130,000 over my TEDA which means a tax bill of c6,500 - after offsetting the interest withheld from my savings account (c8,000 THB) I should be roughly Tax neutral. For any guys looking to send money over from the UK, I expect the rate to go up now... It always does just after I send some money 😞 Joking aside, I was happy with 43.81 (after Wise fees).

Very True, but I edited my post to show how they could simply pull a list together of all incoming transactions from any bank Pretty sure that the Banks have the right (Obligation) to share account transactions with the Tax Department.

Thai Banks have to send TRD a list of all accounts where they've withheld interest, so yes, I do believe they send them a list of all customer accounts. They probably don't (currently) send inward deposits but again, that would take minutes to sort out. Edit: Select Customer.PassportNumber, Sum(Transaction.Credits) From Customer, Transaction Where Customer.CustomerID=Transaction.CustomerID Group by PassportNumber Been a few years since I've had to write any SQL so excuse me if I fluffed up