Mike Teavee

There a similar announcement about Visa Free travel to the UK a couple of months back But haven't heard a dickie bird since...

Not 100% sure about CGT paid on Property Sales (Most people don't need to) but for other asset sales there are no tax credits as UK Expats don't pay Capital Gains on the sale of (Non-Property) assets. See #4 of Article 14 from the DTA... Article 14 - Capital Gains (1) Capital gains from the alienation of immovable property, as defined in paragraph (2) Article 7, may be taxed in the Contracting State in which such property is situated. (2) Capital gains from the alienation of movable property forming part of the business property of a permanent establishment which an enterprise of a Contracting State has in the other Contracting State or of movable property pertaining to a fixed base available to a resident of a Contracting State in the other Contracting State for the purpose of performing professional services, including such gains from the alienation of such a permanent establishment (alone or together with the whole enterprise) or of such a fixed base, may be taxed in the other State. (3) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (2) of this Article, capital gains derived by a resident of a Contracting State from the alienation of ships and aircraft operated in international traffic and movable property pertaining to the operation of such ships and aircraft shall be taxable only in that Contracting State. (4) Capital gains from the alienation of any property other than those mentioned in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this Article shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident. (5) The provisions of paragraph (4) of this Article shall not affect the right of a Contracting State to levy, according to its own law, a tax on capital gains from the alienation of any property derived by an individual who is a resident of the other Contracting State and has been a resident of the first-mentioned Contracting State at any time during the five years immediately preceding the alienation of the property. NB. Point #5 is the UK "5 Year Rule" which stops people becoming Non-Resident for less than 5 years to avoid paying CGT, if Thailand were to implement something similar then it would scupper a lot of plans to do a Hotblack Desiato Edit: This explains the 5 year rule much better than I can 🙂 An individual needs to be non-resident for more than five years to escape UK CGT on assets owned at the time of departure (other than UK land and property) of which he or she disposes after leaving the UK. This five-year period is from when the individual’s sole UK tax residence ceases. If a non-resident becomes resident again in the UK during this five-year period, any assets sold after leaving the UK will be taxed in the UK when the individual returns. If he or she becomes resident again after this five-year period, any assets disposed of while non-resident will not be subject to UK CGT. If the individual purchases assets during a period of temporary non-residence, these assets will not be subject to UK CGT if sold while not resident, even if the individual returns before the end of this five-year period. Complications can arise in respect of the purchase during this temporary non-residence period of a further shareholding in a company that was already in existence at the time the individual left the UK, and the pooling rules that apply (see CG26600). As with everything, there are exceptions to this rule, which are explained in CG26610. Examples of such exceptions are: the transfer of assets between spouses or civil partners and the transferee then subsequently selling the asset during a period of temporary non-residence; and certain gains that have been rolled over into another asset, which is subsequently disposed of during a period of temporary non-residence. https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/gcabe/7-2

If you ever wanted to put a "Value" on access to Fast Track, pre-Covid I used to pay 20,000 THB pa for unlimited Arrivals/Departures with Thailand Longstay Management (was alternating between working 10 days in Singapore & spending 5 days in Bangkok so in & out twice per month). I thought the service (& other paid for Fast Track services) were no longer available, but when I was in the Fast Track queue coming back from the UK on Tuesday I spotted them helping somebody through, it could be that you now need to get the Retirement Package to get this... https://www.thailongstay.co.th/retirement_visa.html

Yes, but what would the GDP growth have been if it wasn't for Brexit? I think most people agree that it would have been higher still These estimates suggest that Brexit had already reduced UK real GDP relative to the baseline by just under one per cent in 2020 as consumers and businesses adapted their expectations even before the TCA came into force. Our estimates further suggest that three years after the transition period, UK real GDP is some 2-3 per cent lower due to Brexit, compared to a scenario where the United Kingdom retained EU membership. This corresponds to a per capita income loss of approximately £850. https://www.niesr.ac.uk/publications/revisiting-effect-brexit?type=global-economic-outlook-topical-feature

One thing that could be different depending on the country of the asset is how original costs are calculated & in particular how to calculate the cost of an asset when it was bought in "Chunks" at different cost points - I.e. do you use FIFO, LIFO, Average Cost etc... E.g. Let's say the £12,000 example is made up of 1,000 units of an Asset bought as:- 300 @ £100 = £3,000 250 @ £110 = £2,750 250 @ £130 = £3,250 200 @ £150 = £3,000 Selling 200 units at £2 would give proceeds of £4,000 and a gain of:- FIFO - £2,000 (Units cost £100 each) - Gain = 50% LIFO - £1,000 (Units cost £150 each) - Gain = 25% AVG - £1,600 (Average cost of each Unit is £120) - Gain = 40% [Ignoring 30 day Bed & Breakfast transactions], I'm pretty sure UK uses Average Cost (AKA "Section 104 Holding") so in this example the assessable gain would be £1,600 or 40%.

Capital Gains is calculated as the difference between the purchase costs & sales proceeds & whilst some countries will then apply Tapered Relief depending on how long you have held the asset, Thailand does not so it's the Original cost with no relief for inflation etc... Once you've done this calculation you can split the proceeds into a percentage that's the original cost & a percentage that is the Gain, you then use this Gain percentage to calculate the Capital Gains liability based on how much of the proceeds you remit. E.g. Buy some shares at a cost of £12,000 & sell these for £15,000 for a gain of £3,000 which gives 80% (£12,000) for the Original Costs & 20% (£3,000) for the Gain Remit £3,000 & the assessable gain is £600 Remit £12,000 & the assessable gain is £2,400 Remit £15,000 & the assessable gain is £3,000 Any assessable gain is treated as income tax so taxed on the sliding scale up to 35%.

Thanks for that, I have read that somebody managed to show 1 year at >$80K & a pension statement showing that they'll continue to be receiving that but it's good to know that I might be able to apply by showing what I receive today & proof that it will be >$80K going forward. My birthday is in Feb so once I get 1 or 2 pension payments in my account I'll try applying for the Visa, if I'm successful it will give me more flexibility as to when I bring the monies over & if not I can just revert to my original plan.

The money would come from selling shares I've held for many, years so I'd need to pay Capital Gain's on >65% of the $250K, cheaper to use the money to have a 6 month holiday! Plus as I'm only a couple of years away from being 60, my "Plan" is to spend 6 months outside of Thailand in 2026 & use the Tax Free Lump Sum from my pension to purchase a Condo & then apply for the LTR-WP using the $40K + $250K invested method as I'll be able to show an income of >$40K for >2 years to support this. If I don't go down the Investment route then I believe I'd need to wait until I've received 2 years of pension before I could show the required ">$80K for 2 years".

I know & am giving serious thought to doing a Hotblack Desiato & spending a year dead so I can bring the money over! Absolutely, it's all part of the plan & I am trying stick to the plan, but as I'm retired & not adding anything to my pension pots, it's harder & harder not to take them early as the differential gets smaller & smaller.

You missed out the part about being old enough to claim your pension 🙂 I'm joking because I am one of those guys who don't meet the Income criteria for the LTR as I don't want to take my pension until I'm 60 & the recent changes to Tax Regulations means I'm not going to bring over $250K to bridge the gap... Thinking about it, would be great if BOI could get an exemption on Tax for people bringing over the Foreign Investment element. Joking aside, even though I don't meet the criteria for the LTR I really don't understand why people try to knock it, if it's not for you then just scroll past threads discussing it & have a quiet little snigger to yourself about those "Suckers" who have got one* I also don't recall seeing a post that used having an LTR to "Brag" about how "Wealthy" somebody was & if somebody were to do that then I suspect that they're probably not as "Wealthy" as they think they are (Income is not a good indicator of "Wealth"). * Hopefully I've been very clear from my previous posts that I think the LTR is a great visa & will be applying for one as soon as I can meet the criteria 🙂

Am sure it will be slightly different in each country but the principle is the same, you sell an asset to lock in gains & use your tax free allowance. E.g. a quick Google tells me that the allowance in Germany is €1,000, so presumably I could buy an asset for €1,000 & if it doubled, sell it for €2,000 at the end of the Tax year without having to pay any tax. If I thought there were further gains to be made on the asset I could buy it back for €2,000 and the baseline for CGT will be the €2,000 that I paid for it so if I then sold it the next Tax Year for €3,500 I would only pay tax on €500 (€3,500 proceeds - €2,000 cost). If I didn't do the "Bed & Breakfast" during the 1st Tax Year to crystalise the gain, then the tax due on the final sale would be on €2,500 (€3,500 proceeds - €1,000 costs). Use it or Lose it 🙂

Both facts are not 100% true, but are correct in the context of what I was replying to.... For the 1st point, Thailand taxes all income arising in Thailand & income remitted into Thailand https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html (Which is the point we were discussing). For the 2nd point, Thailand can ask you to provide any information they like & if you don't provide it can make an "Assessment" of how much Tax they think you owe whether you owe it or not, it's then up to you to challenge the ruling & prove that you don't owe it which would involve you providing them all of the information they asked for & explaining why it's not relevant - But the same is true of any money that you remit into Thailand. But the fact is that Capital Gains is calculated as the difference between the Cost & Proceeds of an Asset purchase/sale, it's only cumulative in the country of the Asset for calculating your tax obligations there - This is why in the UK people will often "Bed & Breakfast" their assets at the End/Start of the Tax year to crystallise Gains & Re-baseline the "Cost" of the asset for a future sale. Example I actively trade in a stock & make 100% each time, I start with £10K which becomes £20K which becomes £40K which becomes £80K, on each sale I satisfy my UK CGT obligations (though pay zero tax as I'm an expat, not 100% true with the 5 year rule but won't go into that here). I then remit the final sale proceeds to Thailand, they are going to calculate the gain as £80K proceeds minus £40K cost = £40K, NOT £80K proceeds minus £10K costs. If instead of remitting the £80K I buy some more shares & sell these shortly after the Capital Gain/Loss will be on the Proceeds minus the £80K costs so CGT is likely to be negligible if not negative. However it's often said that Tax is as much an "Art as it is a Science" & doing this for large transfers might not pass the "Sniff Test" as @Mike Listerlikes to call it, so it would be advisable to leave some time between the final purchase/sale even though technically there is no difference. The "Science" says it's just the gains on the final asset sale, the "Art" is passing the Sniff Test. Edit: As an aside, It's crazy to think that they would/could go through every buy/sell you've ever made to work out where every penny that went into the purchase of the final asset came from, I keep pretty detailed records & I couldn't do it as I've traded in some of the assets for 35 years Plus a lot of them were "Gifted" to me as part of Performance Bonuses for the Bank I worked for & I wouldn't know where to start calculating the Book Value/"Purchase Price" of those. they had a nominal book value at the time but that was so long ago it's mute as far as the UK is concerned.... And then there's all the Drip/Scrip dividends over the years which included a bonus element... My head hurts just thinking about it!

Bangkok Bank will do up to 6 months (I think, definitely 3 months as I get one for my extension) on the spot, its ones longer than this (e.g. some people need a 12 month statement for their extension) that take 7 days. OP, What is the 3 letter code entry in your Bangkok Bank book If it's FTT then you're good, if it's anything else (e.g. TRF) then I'd recommend printing the Wise Transfer receipts to take with you to Immigration.

Yes... They're only auditing what you've remitted & it's on you to tell them the source of the money which, in the case of the sale of an asset, includes whether any CGT was involved. To show this you would provide evidence of the Purchase & Sale of that asset. In your case the money in your "Savings" came from the sale of the original asset so includes the CGT element of that sale, in my case the money in my "Savings" came from the sale of the new asset so includes the CGT element of that sale. Example 1: I sell my house, get a £250K gain put it into a "Savings" account & at some point in the future remit the money into Thailand... TRD ask me where the money came from, I say the sale of my house, they ask for purchase/sale details & I'm liable for tax on the gain from the house. Example 2: I sell my house, get a £250K gain use it to purchase some shares, sit on these for 5 years, sell them & remit the money into Thailand... TRD ask me where the money came from, I say the sale of my shares, they ask for purchase/sale details & I'm liable for tax on the gain from the shares. Example 3: I sell my house, get a £250K gain use it to purchase some shares, sit on these for 5 minutes, sell them & remit the money into Thailand... TRD ask me where the money came from, I say the sale of my shares, they ask for purchase/sale details & I'm liable for tax on the gain from the shares. In Examples 2 & 3 the original gain on the sale of my house doesn't come into it, nor does any other source of money used to purchase the new shares, the starting point for TRD is the Asset not what was used to purchase it. Now, Example 3 is an extreme example & you might be pushing your luck with them on a 10 Million Baht transfer but strictly speaking there is no different between that & Example 2 (especially if during the 5 years no gains were made on the shares) & I don't think anybody would argue that the gains from the original sale of the house come into it in Example 2. However, If I were planning to do this on that kind of scale then I would probably look to do the Purchase & sale in different calendar years (i.e. Buy the Asset late December, sell it early Jan) as that's what TRD are used to operating in.

Not quite like that, as the process would go:- Sell the Asset & pay any home country tax Purchase a new asset (could be the same company shares or a completely different asset class, to keep it simple lets say we're selling a house & buying some shares). Sell the new asset & remit the money reporting any CGT gained on the new Asset (I.e. nothing to report) The sale of the 1st asset crystalises any CGT Gain/Loss, purchasing the new Asset sets the baseline cost from which future CGT is calculated, but if you put the proceeds from the 1st Sale into "Savings" then you're still carrying the original CGT part of it so if TRD asked for the source of the Savings there would be a CGT element to it. There are no reasons why you could not do something similar with Income... Get the Income & pay any home country tax Purchase an Asset with the Income Sell the Asset & remit the money reporting any CGT gained In fact that is exactly how most people obtained the shares they own, the only difference being how long between steps 2 & 3. I have shares I've held for 35 years & have "Owned" Shares for < 3 hours, there is no difference except for tapered CGT relief & as you've said in previous posts it doesn't seem right that Thailand can claim the CGT based on the original purchase price many years ago, but without tapered relief that is exactly what they do, however the flipside is that there are also no rules/guidelines around the minimum length of time you need to keep an asset before the original source of the asset no longer counts. There really is no difference between... Buying shares 10 years ago, selling them 5 years ago to purchase new shares, selling the new shares & remitting the money Buying shares 10 years ago, selling them 5 minutes ago to purchase new shares, selling the new shares & remitting the money.

Thailand only taxes remittances & only has the right to audit what you remit, they cannot go digging through the whole history of transactions that led up to the purchase of the final asset (nor would they want/be able to) as it has nothing to do with them & even if they could, they have no claims on any CGT arising up to that point, that's solely the concern/claim of the country where the asset is. End of the day they just need to see the Sale Contract note showing where the money came from & if they want to query whether any CGT was due (highly doubtful) then you show them the Purchase Contract note(s), they may question why the transactions took place on the same day but it's really none of their business, you're not doing anything wrong/illegal in either country... "I bought the shares, then decided I'd rather have a Condo in Thailand so sold them & remitted the money officer - Up to Me". As I've mentioned, the UK has a 30 day rule around UK Residents selling/repurchasing assets to crystalise CGT and 5 year rules around Expats (to stop people becoming an Expat for 1 year selling all of their assets free of CGT & then moving back to the UK) but Thailand has no such rules and treats CGT as income tax. Now if Thailand taxed the whole of your worldwide income then it would be a whole different matter (& I would be out of here).

The LTR doesn't really change whether you should be paying Tax on income you're actively earning whilst living/working in Thailand so I'll assume that you don't have a Work Permit & are not currently paying tax on the income that you're remitting. Obviously the recent change could now lead you having to explain the source of that income & be taxed on it. The LTR Tax advantages are aimed more at passive income (E.g. Dividends, Pensions, Rent, CGT etc...) being remitted from overseas but if you remit your overseas active income then it's unlikely it will be treated any different from these as LTR holders without Thai sourced income do not need to file Tax Returns. If I've got it wrong & you do have a Work Permit attached to your WP/WCG LTR then you'll pay Tax on that income as normal BUT will not need to declare any passive income that you remit. Though it doesn't specifically cover your question, this Video might be of interest to you...

I think most people do sit in the middle but sensibly assess the impact of getting it wrong E.g. for me... Remit income up to my Allowances + 150K ( Total of 235K) & not file a return, worse case, 2,000B fine (They'd owe me 5,000 in Withheld tax on my Bank Account interest so can take it out of that & give me the extra 3K). Do the same for the GF (Total of 210K) + "Gift" her 2x100K, worse case, (IIRC) twice the Tax due on the 200K (She's already used the 1st 150K at 0% so it would be 150K at 10% + 50K at 15% = 22,500 doubled) 45K + 2K fine=47K. Remit the Tax Free Lump Sum from my Pension + some Capital Gains for a total of say 12Million THB = 7,460,500 (2x3,730,250) + 2K fine. 1st 2 I've no qualms about but the 3rd one, no way... Besides there's something intensely satisfying in having a 6 month holiday on money that you would otherwise have given to a Tax Man 😄

(Technically) he is liable to tax on income remitted during the year he was not tax resident if the income was "Earned" during a year when he was tax resident... E.g. Earn income in 2025, be a non-Tax resident & remit the income in 2026 & (Technically) you're still liable for tax on it. Flip side is true also, earn income in 2025 when you're not a tax resident & remit it in 2026 when you are, no tax to pay. FWIW I be taking no chances when it comes to remitting my pension tax free lump sum and/or proceeds from the sale of my UK house, I'll be getting the money & remitting it in the same year when I'll be non-Tax resident.

I agree & end of the day it comes down to "Technically" Vs "Practically".

Thailand doesn't seem to have anything specific around CGT & treats it as Income so I guess as an extreme it would be 10 years as that's the furthest they can go back for Tax Audits?

I'm not sure it ever becomes savings if it's "Earned" after 1/1/2024, so maybe "Bed & Breakfasting" is a way to move from a position of having a high capital gain to one where you've got zero/little & so when you came to sell the asset, the money would be as good as "Savings". To take it to extremes I guess there is nothing to stop you taking all of your income (Dividends, Rent, Pensions, even gains from selling your house), buying assets with it, selling the assets & remitting the proceeds with no/little tax to pay.

I'm up early adjusting the Stop limits on some UK shares that have done well recently & a thought struck me... If I paid £10,000 for some shares & sold them for £30,000 I've realised a gain of £20,000 but as there's no CGT to pay in the UK, if I remit the £30,000 into Thailand I'm liable for tax on the full £20,000 gain. However, if I use that £30,000 to purchase some new shares (same company or another) & sell them straight away then I'll lose on the dealing charges & spread between buy & sell price but this won't be anywhere near the tax on 920,000B. Not planning on doing this anytime soon, but if I do decide to bring significant income from Capital Gains I'll be looking at "Bed & Breakfasting" it in the UK before I do. [NB UK has a 30 day rule to stop you crystalising CGT gains/losses by selling & immediately repurchasing the same stock but as Thailand doesn't seem to have any separate provisions for CGT but treats it as Income Tax then I'm assuming they don't have something similar].

And I've always thought the FX rates on XE were amongst the best but they also stated... Inheritances above ฿100 million THB (about $335,000 USD), Non Transferable property rights above ฿20 million THB (about $67,000 USD) Also out by a factor of roughly 10X 😄

I thought Income earned between 1/1/2024 and you getting the LTR was still Taxable. E.g. I plan on going for mine when my pensions start in 2026 and am expecting that I would have to pay Tax on Rental/Dividend income earned in 2024 & 2025 if I remit it.