Mike Teavee

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Please report back re converting to non O-X being a yes or no.

 

I recall years ago to and fro with ubonjoe and some random poster that to be fair was very confident of a YES to obtain non O-X inside Thailand.

Seemed to have facts to back up claim.

Perhaps that (as usual) was office specific and perhaps a "fee".

I've not been here in Thailand long time compared to many others.

Never met one person on a non O-X.

Seems to have very unattractive requirements. 

 

If you wish to look into LTV suggest a chat with @ThailandRyan would be useful.

Helpful guy

 

I've seem to recall 1 guy saying an Immigration officer had offered him the opportunity to convert to a Non-IMM OX & I did stumble across a Website (I can't find it now) which suggested you could do the conversion but everything else I've read says you would need to get the Non-Imm OX from a "Royal Thai Embassy/Royal Thai Consulate-General in the country of their nationality or where they have permanent residence."... 

https://consular.mfa.go.th/th/content/80939-non-–-immigrant-visa-“o-x”-(long-stay-10-years)?page=5d68c88b15e39c160c0081e5&menu=5d68c88b15e39c160c0081e6

It doesn't cost anything to ask so will ask on Tuesday & report back but I am expecting a resounding NO... 

19 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

There is a LTV thread with 73 pages.

Let's start few more. 

 

Sorry @DrJack54I’m the OP & am more guilty of dragging this thread OT than most. 
 

Back to Topic I have read elsewhere that I can convert to OX in-country so will be visiting Maneerat on Tuesday to do my annual extension& will ask them if this is an option (I have the money in the bank + health insurance), but am expecting I’ll end up with another year on my Non-IMM O ???? 

32 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap....that's a possibility based on current LTR required docs/procedures which focuses on 1 or 2 years of income proof.  However, I expect BoI could ways ask for additional years of income proof.

 

To be honest the whole Capital Gains thing was an eye opener to me as I just assumed they would want to see a more “permanent” kind of income.

Appreciate Dividends & Rental income aren’t “Permanent” or guaranteed & in reality only a solid pension could give you that kind of surety but Capital Gains are by definition a 1-off (you get it when you dispose of the asset) so I didn’t think it would be included.
 

I appreciate you can re-invest the Capital Gains to get future income but assumed they were looking for income you can spend in country not recycle back at home. 

Anyway, thanks again for the heads up, I’m gonna stick with my plan of waiting 2.5 years for my guaranteed income to kick in in the meantime my Dividend/Rental Income are on track (famous last words) to meet the $40K pa threshold for the next 2 years & unlike Capital Gains, are (mostly*) evidenced on my Tax return. 

*in the UK we have ISAs “Investment Savings Accounts” which are not reportable on our Tax returns but I’m sure I can get something from my Broker to confirm income earned in there, hopefully I won’t need to ???? 

20 minutes ago, Pib said:

Many people buy/sell (trade) stocks continuously and each year a good portion of their total income is from Cap Gains. 

 

And many people also have investments in stocks/mutual funds that pay-out very significant Cap Gains/Dividends annually (assuming it's not a terrible stock market year) which they may just have automatically reinvested or they sell/withdraw all the Cap Gain/Dividends.   But regardless of whether they have the Cap Gain reinvested automatically or actually have the gains paid into a bank acct it's still "unearned" income.   

Cool, so in that case LTR guys should check your income every year to ensure you’re still meeting the income requirements as in no way are capital gains guaranteed every year (Even if you’re Warren B).

By your measure I could just sell enough stock to generate £65K gains for 2 years in a row so I meet the LTR income requirements,  then not worry about having any income (or investing anything in Thailand) for the next 5 years until the mid-visa check happens

Makes no sense to me at all…But again, I’m not the one making the rules so “play where I’m put”

1 minute ago, Pib said:

As posted earlier, pretty much any income that is "not" from employment is considered unearned income.   The BoI LTR website specifically mentions Cap Gains as unearned income.

 

Whether earned or unearned income it would need to proved thru tax/bank/investment company/govt official documents....and yes, documents available from country to country would vary.   Like for U.S. folks the Form 1040 Income Tax form, Form 1099R Distributions from Pensions/IRAs/Profit Sharing Plans, Form 1099B Proceeds for Broker/Barter Exchange, other types of govt/investment docs, etc.    Personally maintained docs like spreadsheets wouldn't hack it.

Yes… sorry I posted my reply before reading the image you’d provided (was on my phone) and saw that it specifically mentions Capital Gains as a valid income source. 
 

Makes absolutely no sense to me as Capital Gains are a “one off” whereas Income should be more or less consistent/guaranteed.
 

But then again, it makes no sense to me to use an Income ”yardstick” for a “Wealth” Visa… the 2 things are not synonymous.

Hey, TiT… we work within what we’re given ????

47 minutes ago, Pib said:

All should as they are "unearned/passive" income.....that is, income not derived from employment.  Employment income is considered "earned" income.  

 

Also, see below snapshot from the BoI LTR website which talks earned and unearned income regarding a pensioner visa.

 

 

 

Wow! How do you prove you’ve made a gain on the sale of Shares? 
 

As a UK Non-Resident for Tax purposes I don’t need to report (Non Property) Gains on my Tax return so do I just send them a screen shot from my Excel spreadsheets? 
 

I could send them contract notes from Shares I bought 20 years ago but I’ve sold /re-bought these dozens of times since so would that be acceptable?
 

Normally (for Tax purposes) Gains are treated on a “Last In / First Out” basis but how would they know that the proof of purchase I’m giving them wasn’t from a purchase I made years ago which I’ve sold/re bought many times since?
 

Plus obviously Capital gains are a 1 time thing with no guarantee that you will do the same next year, appreciate Dividends, Bank interest & Rental income aren’t guaranteed but at least you still own the income generating asset so it’s more likely you’ll still be getting income from it (there is zero chance of getting income from an asset you no longer have).

Makes no sense to me to have Capital Gains included as Income but as we all know, This is Thailand ????
 

As an aside, the LTR “Wealthy Pensioner” scheme based on Income is the only time I’ve seen a “Wealth” criteria be based on Income… All of the “Wealth”/HNW products I’ve ever had have been based on investable assets Citigold? $200,000 USD invested, Bangkok Bank Gold? 4Million Baht Invested, Barclays Premier account £100,000 GBP invested (though they recently changed it so you could qualify if you earn £75K pa).

4 hours ago, MPoll said:

I got my OA in 2017. They added the health insurance requirement in 2019 and there was no grandfathering of previous OA visa holders. We suddenly got the new requirement no matter how long ago we got our OA. So my confidence in grandfathering is pretty low.

I agree but I do think they would Grandfather in age requirement as unlike the money in the bank requirements & (for most) the insurance requirements your Age isn’t something that you can change to meet a change to the requirements 

Anyways this is an LTR thread so apologies for going off Topic… Will just say again that when you get your LTR all previous Visas are null & void so if you were to lose it you would be starting from scratch, nobody is going to blow the cobwebs off your previous Visa.

1 hour ago, stat said:

Thank you for your post! What exactly qualifies as income? Does

 

 

 

1. Dividends
2. Sale of shares
3. Interest
4. Selling of options?

 

qualify?

 

Thank you!

I'm by no means an expert but I believe income from Dividends & Interest would count but capital gains from the sale of shares/options wouldn't. 

Other Income streams that would count are salary from a job, Pension & Rental Income. 

59 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I see a potential issue there: if for any reason we lose our LTR visa they might reverse to the OA rules, hence the need for a "worthless Thai health insurance"...

 

Ok, ok, clearly sinking too much.

You would obviously need to revert to a New Visa so (currently) could get the Non-IMM O which (currently) doesn't require Health Insurance. 

For me one of the downsides in swapping my Non-IMM O Visa for a longer term Visa (& this is more the Thailand Elite than LTR)  is I would give up any Grandfathering rights that might apply to existing Non-IMM O Holders...

E.g. If somebody was 50 & they lost the LTR at 55 & during that time Thailand raised the Retirement Visa age to 60, they would be screwed... Whereas if they were on continuous Non-IMM O Extensions during those 5 years there is a high probability they would be "Grandfathered" in and  allowed to keep extending that

Visa. 

A lot of "If, Buts & Maybes" but just the thought process I've been going through when trying to decide whether to get a 20 year Thailand Elite Visa (I won't qualify for the LTR for a couple of years as I'm too young to draw my pension). 

And now the latest thing to [not] "Worry" about with Retirement Visas is raising the age from 50 to 55 or 60... 

Personally don't see it happening & if it did, I believe they will Grandfather in existing Visa holders.... (bloody hope so as I'm 2.5 years away from being 60) but the main guy in the murder that started all this off with Big Joke was 52 so it wouldn't be a complete shocker if they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

It would be nice if they could announce any changes before Sept 15th so, if I needed to, I could get my Thailand Elite Visa application in before that changes...  

30 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Prior to 2015 most banks were happy to open accounts for people on any kind of visa with nothing more needed than showing a passport..

I'd go even further & say they were happy to open accounts for anybody, I opened mine in 2017 on a Visa Exempt & know guys who have done the same as recently as January this year. 

In March (might have been May) this year the Banking regulations changed & you now need at least 30 days remaining on your permission to stay to open an account which more or less rules out Visa Exempt holders though I do know of an agency in Jomtien that will take you to do an extension to your VE & then to open a Bank Account the same day. 

9 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

So all those were over the age of 85 were they? Many of the Thai stipulated health funds increased the age limit for joining up. The fund I'm with increased that age limit from 70 to 85 with a full medical examination required. So perhaps many of those people that opted out of O-A weren't as well informed as you seem to think

So the only reason for being denied insurance is age? You Never heard of pre-existing conditions that make some people simply uninsurable. 

That aside most insurance companies have a maximum onboarding age of 75 so whilst mine will continue to insure me until I’m 99, I couldn’t get a new policy with them at 76.

Please share the name of your Insurance company (mine is Pacific Cross) as I’m sure a lot of guys > 75 would be interested. 

11 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

what does under 60 have to do with anything. Totally irrelevant comment by you AGAIN.

Your proposed criteria for PR was >70, been here 10 years & Thai ability didn’t matter. 
 

Mine was  <60, has a few Million THB in the bank & speaks/reads Thai to at least a Basic level

You then said you would meet that criteria anyway which was a lie as you’re > 70

Thats where the <60 came in.

 
The irrelevant part of it was you making a stupid suggestion of who they should give PRs to. 

Just now, TigerandDog said:

I'm over 70, speak Thai enough to hold a conversation and yes have several million in the bank here. I don't give a flying F if you don't believe me. The reason for saying no Thail ability is that MOST over 70 long term foreigners have none.

So you don’t meet all the criteria I listed (I.e. you’re not under 60, the very 1st thing I listed) 

& I’m the one who needs to learn to Read/Comprehend!

So yes, I was right to not believe you not that I give a Flying F.

11 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

you really ought to get your facts right before posting such drivel. When I arrived here 9 years ago on an O-A it WAS a requirement to have the money in the bank within 3 months of arrival. No confusion whatsoever with the 3 months seasoning. I even had to show the bank a copy of the Police/Immigration rule stating that, before they would open an account for me. I didn't miss the memo about O as I am more than comfortably meet the O-A requirements  So it has nothing to do with MY choice of visa or any need to change to an O. 

 

The ones that left the country to negate their O-A's most likely should never have been here in the first place as they obviously were incapable of meeting the requirements.

First part you are the only person to have a Non-IMM OA who’s ever reported needing money in the bank except at Extension time. But you are Special. 
 

2nd part youre making stupid assumptions, there were some guys who have more than enough money to Self Insure (the amount quoted for LTR is 3Million) but were unable to get Medical Insurance so switched to the Non-IMM O. 

13 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

even with the stipulations you state, I'd still qualify. So what problems would it solve for me? So many on here have no idea what they're on about.

So you’re under 60, speak/read Thai & have a few Million in the Bank? 
 

Seeing as you advocated Over 70s with no Thai ability I simply don’t believe you…

1 hour ago, 2baht said:

Maybe he wang the Wong number!

He should have called Sex, Sex, Sex, Free sex tonight [666-3629]

24 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

there's a better alternative than that if the Thai Govt had any brains and it would save older expats a heap of inconvenience, viz. for expats that have had 10 consecutive extensions of stay on either O or O-A (whether marriage or retirement) and are 70 or older offer them PR with no language test. Would solve a lot of problems for everyone.

You mean it would solve problems for you 

Why should they give you PR if you’ve lived here for 10 years & are too lazy to bother to learn the language? .
 

No country wants Old Foreigners who are likely to cause them problems with unpaid hospital bills / unclaimed bodies so instead why not give everybody <60 who has a few Million THB in the bank & speaks/reads Thai to at least a Basic level PR?
 

Fun factoid,  it’s more or less impossible to get a PR in Singapore after 50 unless you’re married to a Singaporean (or insanely wealthy) 

21 minutes ago, CecilM said:

Photocopy of bank book & bank statement. 

Was that a Bank Statement (if so was it 3 months, 6 months or 1 year) or the normal letter from the Bank confirming the amount you have that day? 
 

Also when was this? only the rules seem to have changed in the past 4-5 months 
 

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I rarely eat local food outside the UK.

Plenty of German/Brit/Aussie/Mexican restaurants in PI.

In Thailand I regularly eat at German and Indian restaurants.

I mainly eat at home & so was referring to the quality of the food that was available in the supermarkets there.  Even in Davao City at the SMs/ Robinson it was pretty poor.

I love Korean & Japanese food and have had some of the best I’ve ever tried in Cebu.

On 8/6/2023 at 12:20 PM, BritManToo said:

Not all that useful as you can retire in many Asian countries without a special retirement VISA.

Take for example the expensive Philippines SRRV, why bother when you can just fly in at any age and stay for 3 years.

Thailand, they only talk about the restrictive O-A VISA, and I've never encountered anyone that uses that.

 

I would suggest expatriateconsultants only discuss VISAs where they can make money from selling/assisting you and are not to be trusted for real advice.

I was dating a Filipina (in SG) for 8 years (Went 1/2s on a house a couple of hours north of Davao City) so when it came to retirement obviously considered moving there & around about that time (just prior to Covid) there was talk that they were going to put an end to the seamless 3 years on Visa Exempt entry & make people leave after 6 months (Philippines isn't the easiest country to do a Border Hop from). 

No idea if this will come back on the table but the SRRV has to be amongst the cheapest Retirement Visas out there & if you go down the Marriage route, you get an automatic 1 year on arrival & just have to show "Proof of Finances" (I can't find specific amounts) if you go down the 13A route. 

Food sucks so I chose Thailand though the women are much hotter (especially in the Visayas) so it's clear where my priorities lay! 

I'm planning on using a Fixed Deposit account for the 1st time next week so will report back on whether I needed a statement (hopefully not as it takes Bangkok Bank 1 week to produce a 12 month statement).

NB. although I do keep the 800K in the Bank (have also maintained > 800K in my "Savings" account incase I have a problem with the FD account) I will be using an Agent to do all the paperwork/running around.

So for any "None Lazy Farangs who are not helping to propagate the corrupt Visa System" out there YMMV.

14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Health insurance (as per the specifications of the OIC office
with coverage of OPD of at least 40,000 baht and IPD of at
least 400,000 baht

That what the standard Insurance for the OA used to be but it changed to 3Milllion Outpatients cover from 1st October 2021 which I believe is the same for the newish LTR Visa So am guessing would be the standard for any future Insurance requirements... https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/longstay-visa/

18 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Thank you, My agent contact ( Chiang Mai ) said if I enter with Non-O or visa exempt I had to stay in Thailand during the whole period until I get the one year extension sorted.

I don’t believe that’s true you can get a Re-Entry permit for the Non-IMM O to protect your permission to stay for the whole 90 days from your 1st entry so nothing to stop you leaving & then doing your extension when you get back. 

Obviously you can’t get a Re-Entry permit if you’re Visa Exempt & I think you would probably need to remain in-Country for at least 15 days until you got your Non-IMM O.

it’s possible that your Agent will be converting you to the 90 day visa + getting the 1st year extension in 1 shot (quite a common way to do the conversion in Pattaya, costs 23,500b, takes a couple of days & you get the 90 day visa + 1st years extension so good for 15 months) I don’t know the implications of travelling before your extension “kicks in”, would suggest you ask the question of somebody like Maneerat (Visa Agent in Pattaya who have done all of my friends conversions) who should be able to give you a definitive answer about whether you can travel outside of Thailand in the period between getting your Non-IMM O and being on the extension that the agent has got for you with it. 

17 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I am on O/A actually an multiple entry permit of last years entry during the validity period

I would like to go to O next year but there does not seem to be a way to do it, without taking off a lot of my work (overseas)

 

Makes more sense to keep paying for the useless redundant Thai insurance. I used to have a signature line "Constant Internatioanl travel". Too much time is required in Thailand to process the conversion from visa exempt and get the extension.

 

Now, could I get the O from the Thai Consulate in the US? Then how long would it take to get the one year extension in Thailand ?  I could be here for a month in January maybe swing 6 weeks without a pay loss.

 

You 1st need to wait until your re-entry permit expires & then leave the country ending your current permission to stay and Non-IMM OA Visa.  

You then have a choice of coming back in Visa Exempt/Tourist Visa & doing a conversion (would need at least 15 days) OR do a long weekend in Laos/Vietnam OR go back to your home country to get the Single Entry 90 Day Non-IMM O Visa. 

Once you have the 90 day Visa you can apply up to 30 (45 days in some places e.g. Jomtien) in advance of it expiring for a 1 year extension which just takes 1 day.... If you did need to leave Thailand in the 1st 60/45 days you would just get a Re-Entry permit & as long as you return with a couple of days left before it ends, can do your 1 year extension when you get back.