Mike Teavee

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

(Technically) if you remit Income earned this year in December it's liable for Tax under the old rules so it might be a better idea to remit on 1/1/24 as clearly anything sent on that day could not have been earned in 2024.

For the "Confused" amongst us... 

Any income that you remit to Thailand in the same year that it was earned is liable for Tax, so remit income this month that was earned this year & (technically, ignoring any relief from DTAs) you should be paying tax on it. 

On 1/1/24 any income you've earn prior to that date would not be liable for tax so send over as much as you like as it was clearly earned in a previous tax year before the new rule came into place. 

It's not rocket science... 

11 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

If you remit this month, the old rules apply, i.e. it is assessable if the income was earned this year.  Of course it depends on your deductions and how much other income you have remitted or earned on shore.

(Technically) if you remit Income earned this year in December it's liable for Tax under the old rules so it might be a better idea to remit on 1/1/24 as clearly anything sent on that day could not have been earned in 2024.

15 minutes ago, topt said:

Yes free even in Pattaya (which is what was being referred to ) as long as you are not in a hurry..........

 

Can someone from Pattaya confirm it is still 300 for one or has inflation taken hold?

When I did mine at Jomtien Immigration Office in July it was 300B.

Granted there was no conversation about whether I wanted an "Express Service" or wait a few days as it would cost me more than that to get a Bolt there & back if I couldn't get it that day.

Pattaya City Expat Club seems to confirm it's 300B https://pcec.club/ResidencyCertificate

30 minutes ago, topt said:

Apologies but do you need new batteries for the calculator.... -or have I missed something?

Lol, I certainly do need new batteries for my brain!

That should have been £3,000 = approx 133,000B (Only out by a factor of 10 :) ) 

1 hour ago, metisdead said:

A post with a link to a disallowed source in violation of the Forum Rules has been removed:

 

16. The Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEAN NOW. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to the Bangkok Post, Khaosod, Pattaya Mail and the Phuket News publications will be deleted from the forum. These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not by ASEAN NOW. In rare cases, forum administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.

Apologies, I know better than to post links to Bangkok Post but hadn't realised that the others weren't allowed. 

Hopefully it's ok to suggest people Google "Myths about Thai expats and those income tax changes starting very soon" as it was an interesting article. 

10 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

It does read that way BUT I think they're referring to Permanent Residents as even guys on a 30 day Visa Exempt can (or at least used to be able to, some offices won't do them now) get a Certificate of Residency for opening bank accounts etc... 

On 10/31/2023 at 5:31 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Interesting post, the section 10 part about not being with someone 10 years younger, that can't be unusual with retired 60+ guys there, how do they get round that?

I think you misunderstood, the 10 year age gap is to protect minors & only relates to under 18s...  So a 17 year old Filipina could be with a 27 year old guy but not a 28 year old guy & an 18 year old Filipina can be with a guy of any age

But there have been stories (I don't know how true) of guys being set-up by a girl bringing her <18 year old "Sister" to their hotel room, popping out to do something & the police raiding. 

1 other fun fact about the Philippines is as there's no divorce there (only annulments which are expensive & take a very long time) if you go with a Filipina who was married then technically you & she are committing adultery so can be prosecuted & if you were to have a child together then technically the child is considered to be the husbands.

Sound far fetched? A guy from Wales got into a lot of trouble over this with either him and/or the Filipina given a 14 year prison sentence. 

Google "Locked Up Abroad - 3 Forbidden Love" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1961956/    

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

2x now mea culpa. I was looking for info on the foreign-sourced gift tax and that popped up but I did not see it was under the Inheritance section.

 

But along the lines of the US foreign-sourced gift tax, if it said that the Thai domestic tax free maintenance gift was up to 20 million per year and the foreign sourced gift at 3 million baht per year, that would make more sense to me.

 

But it doesn't.

No worries, I posted my reply before I saw @Yumthairesponse so Mea Culpa also :) 

I do think that the Gift Tax is a glaring loophole in the RD's plans to tax more incoming remittances from their main target (Thais with significant overseas incomes) so would be surprised if it didn't quickly come under a lot of scrutiny & get reduced to 1-2Million.

Seems US has a 3Million THB limit on Tax Free Gifts, IIRC it's £3,000 (PA) in the UK which is about 1.33Million THB.

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

2.2.1 Persons with Thai nationality
The assets of Thai nationals and juristic persons are taxable regardless of their
location.

 

https://www.bakermckenzie.com/-/media/files/insight/events/2016/11/32nd-aptaxconference/20161116/2016aptc_thailand.pdf

That's for Inheritance Tax... & what's interesting about it is that it seems Guys who are Permanent Residents could be subject to IHT. 

2.2.2 Persons with non-Thai nationality
All assets of individuals holding Thai residency pursuant to Thai immigration laws* are taxable. For any individual without residency in Thailand under Thai immigration laws, but receiving taxable assets in Thailand, these assets are taxable. Furthermore, the inherited assets situated in Thailand of foreign juristic persons receiving those assets situated are taxable.

*Individuals approved by the Immigration Commission who have received a certificate of residence are considered to have residency in Thailand for inheritance tax purposes (section 41 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)).

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

My original question still stands:

 

A Thai national living abroad who remits 1M baht as gifts for his family in Thailand. Let's assume they use Western Union.

 

What are the tax implications?

Neither the PWC or HSBC articles I've read on Gift tax state whether the money being "Gifted" has to come from within Thailand or can come from abroad

PWC: https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

HSBC:https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/thailand/tax-in-thailand/#:~:text=Inheritance and gift taxes&text=However%2C gifts received from a,year) are exempt from tax.

I guess the safest thing would be for them to send the money to their own Bank Account in Thailand (No Tax as they're Non Tax Resident) & then "Gift" it from there. 

50 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

Mr Bates vs The Post Office  

 

 

Maybe of only interested to Brits.

The Sub Post Offices in the UK although past their hay day, are still quite numerous , usually run by Husband and wife team they combined it with selling other items and  it usually includes their accommodation, it's a life job.  A few years back the Goverment installed a new computer program --from Horisen , big company you can google. It found that some sub Post were stealing from them, not just some -Many,  Lots, Hundreds. So it started to take them to court-although they pleaded innocence, none of them won the case because it was hard to argue against what the computer program was saying.  They were told to pay 10K---sometime 20K pounds. of course some lost their job accommodation--standing in the community, most were also JPs . It got up to over 520 before someone said--This is a bit odd isn't it.  BBC have taken this British Scandal and turned it into a 4 part series starts 18th Dec--- the lead has Toby Jones (The guy who played Sutclife Killer) in the long shadow.

 

 

My Brother (Well technically his partner is the "Sub Post Master") leases a Post Office in rural Derbyshire & got caught up in this,  it was really nasty & ended up putting his partner in hospital with the stress from it (There were other People caught up in it who ended up committing suicide from the stress). 

In their case it was all over a £1,000 discrepancy so it got to the point where my brother said he'd just pay the £1,000 to make the problem go away but they wouldn't accept anything like that so it went on & on with threats of court action & prison until the truth came out & they were fully vindicated. 

My brother hasn't spoken about it to me since (I think mainly he doesn't want to upset his partner but also he doesn't want to relive that <deleted>) so I've no idea whether they were compensated for it or not.

Obviously I'm gonna watch the show to see what happens & I'll have a chat with him about it next time I'm in the UK (May). 

11 minutes ago, topt said:

Don't you still have to be there to have your picture taken or have they got round that now?

I don't know about DLT but I do know that I had to go to Jomtien Immigration to have my photo taken when I did my last extension in August, as mentioned I use an Agent (for convenience) & last year they took my photo in their office so I don't know if there's been a general tightening up on needing to attend places for photos. 

19 hours ago, NONG CHOK said:

I called into my visa agent of 10 years and he said he can get the job done for 900 baht. So I then asked him how can he get the job done considering he made my current one year visa for me  and also does my 90 days reports with no certificate of residency. His reply was typical Thai, he told me he's very important. Next visa renewal I'll be changing agents. Another smart ass Thai who's shot himself in the foot.

My last residency cert cost me 500B from Maneerat (Soi 13/2, directly across the road from the Post Office), the 1 before that cost me 300B doing it myself at Immigration (I was trying to sort out my Tax Identification Number at the Tax office across Jomtien 2nd Road so decided to do it myself as I was already in the area). 

FWIW I also use Maneerat for my Extension & it's 8,000B (Because I keep 800K in the Bank) + another 4,000B for 1 year Multi Re-Entry Permit, it would be 12,500B + 4,000B otherwise. 

Edit: If you want them to sort out a TM30 for you it would also be 500B. 

... But 900B to save you the hassle of going to DLT to sort out your Driving License sounds like a Bargain :) 

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A Thai national working abroad (permanently) sends baht to his family in Thailand (more than 1M baht per year).

 

Is this a taxable event?

 

Who pays the taxes?

It depends on "Who" they're sending the money to,  "What" they're sending the money over for & "How Much" they're sending, but based on current rules & the fact that there have been no announcements changing the "Gift" part of these, IMHO...

1. If they're sending money back to themselves then there should be no tax liable from the Thai national as they're not Tax Resident. 
2. If the money is below 20M & being gifted to a Spouse or a Child for their use only & they get no direct financial benefit from it (e.g. the money could not be used to buy land/property in the Senders name) - No Tax is liable
3. If the money is below 10M & a gift to a close friend/partner to mark a significant occasion (e.g. Wedding) or to provide support (Moral Obligation) & they get no direct financial benefit from it (again, couldn't be used to buy anything in the senders name) - No Tax is liable
4. If the money is above the 10/20M thresholds & is a "Gift" then 5% tax to pay by the person receiving it. 

However, as has been discussed in the thread already, the 10/20M "Gift" loophole would seem to make a mockery of the new rules so although I believe it will stay in some form (maybe a reduced limit to 1/2M THB) I would image any such "Gifts" would be intensely scrutinised. 

On 12/9/2023 at 8:41 AM, Fr87 said:

 

I've been able to make it deeper the website. When you do get to fees there's no fee there's no hyperlink.

 

You may or may not know that many Dental operations and clinics will break out the cost for an implant. Therefore, the basic work for implant in some cases might be as low in some clinics as 50,000 k agreed. Then you have a number of other things that could be associated with the procedure. Finally, what is not included in that price is the crown which is often another 15 to 30,000.

 

Fees no fees?

 

https://www.indenteclinic.com/en/fee

 

The 50K I quoted for an implant at The S Clinic in Bangkok included all the Fees, I know as I had 3 (all OSSTEM) done there. 

On 12/9/2023 at 8:28 AM, Mike Lister said:

Those are sucker farang prices, the cost in the NOrth at an expert clinic is 50k max.

 

https://www.indenteclinic.com/fee

The cost in Bangkok (S Dental Clinic in Sathorn https://www.thes-clinic.com/implant) is 50K, I've seen them advertised for 35K in Pattaya but it looks like that's for a lower quality implant. 

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are university students taxed?

Could I remit say 50k a month to my child tax free?

 

Will Thai banks investigate every Thai person that gets cross border remittance regularly?

 

 

You can "Gift" your child up to 20Million Baht per year & I don't think anybody would argue with you "Gifting" them 50K per month for living expenses... 

From @Yumthaiearlier post...  https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

From HSBC... 

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/thailand/tax-in-thailand/#:~:text=Inheritance and gift taxes&text=In general%2C gifts are taxed,year) are exempt from tax.

"In general, gifts are taxed at a flat rate of 5%. However, gifts received from a legitimate parent, child or spouse (up to THB 20 million per year) or in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with custom and tradition (up to THB 10 million per year) are exempt from tax".

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Why limiting your GF remittance at 210K? Assuming she's Thai tax resident you can gift her up to 10M THB a year tax-free (then 5% tax on the exceeding amount).

I know you can gift your wife 20M & I have read that parents can gift up to 10M for special occasions (e.g. a wedding) but I can't find it written anywhere that I could gift the GF 10M, do you have a link?

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The tax reciprocity treaties cover retirement money.

Maybe for the US (and even then you could be liable for tax in Thailand if the tax rate is higher here) but UK State & Private pensions are not covered by the UK/TH DTA.

I do think you're right in that nobody should be getting stressed about it until we have more clarity but I do think people should consider bringing money over before 1/1/24 and delaying any planned remittances after that date until we have clarification. 

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

That first paragraph doesn't make any sense.

 

If you transfer in money from abroad in 2024, RD is going to flag it, and you will have to fill out a tax form. Presumably, while filling out the form, you can inform RD that the money came from income earned in 2023 or earlier.

 

I am giving myself a headache, so I will stop here.

No they're not, the onus is on you to file a return IF you have taxable income (which is exactly how it is today), the Revenue may or may not look at people who make large transfers but I can guarantee they won't look at somebody who sends <60K THB pa as they know there is no tax to pay.

FWIW I doubt they'd look at anybody sending <300K as even if there is Tax due it's not worth their effort to collect the <5K tax you might have to pay on it. 

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

By your definition "taxable income" = money transferred into Thailand from abroad.

 

So, my plan is to avoid being deemed a tax resident by not living in Thailand more than 180 days.

 

But, if that plan fails (ie, I get stuck in Thailand for some reason), then the backup plan is not to transmit any money into Thailand in 2024. Because if I transfer just $1 from abroad while being a Tax Resident (ie I remain in Thailand more than 180 days), then I must fill out tax forms. It's like being a little bit pregnant.

You only need to file a Tax return if you have income that is taxable in Thailand. 

The simplest example is if you transfer <60K then there is no need to file a return as all Tax Residents have a minimum of 60K personal allowance. 

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

My point is that doing the work to calculate your Thai tax liability is difficult and laborious. I came to Thailand to stop working, not learn a new tax system.

 

But I can avoid all that work by taking longer holidays abroad.

In which case it doesn't matter how much money you remit into Thailand. 

But even if you were Tax Resident, there is no need to file a return unless you have taxable income & all this talk of "I'll need something from RD to do my extension" is nonsense, there is no way that the RD can cope with an additional 300,000 Expat Tax Returns never mind the 100,000s of Thais that will get caught up in it. 

Granted they could re-instate the Tax Clearance certificate that you used to have to get if you'd stayed here longer than 6 months (IIRC Philippines still has something similar) but in that case you would need to get one whether you remitted any money to Thailand or not.