Mike Teavee

36 minutes ago, BritTim said:

So, you would need to submit the bank statement to show you qualified for the last extension, thus (in spite of the fact that you could have qualified based on income if able to use that to qualify) you would again need to use money in the bank the next time. Or, do you annotate the application in some way to state that, although forced to show proof of money in the bank this time, yo will be using income next time? Do you need to show the 12-month statement of 65k baht transfers along with the 800k deposit but, perhaps, stamp the 800k deposit statement "not for this extension"? If so, make sure you keep a copy of all this, as I doubt Immigration can easily lay their hands on it at the time of your next extension. They will usually just look at your extension stamp and want to see if you qualify for the next one based on income or money in the bank.

I'm not sure I understand your point but... 

Firstly, you haven't qualified for your last extension until you have (at least) kept 800K in the Bank for 3 months after it... Agreed?

But I think it goes way beyond that & If you do an extension based on money (800K) in the bank then I think they will check to see you've met the conditions of that for the full year so need to have maintained (at least) 800K in the bank 3 months after, 400K for 7 months after that, I don't know whether they will insist on the final 2 months having 800K but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.  

So yes, I believe that if you want to switch to the Income method then you'll need to show both (800K & 65K pm) the 1st time, after that you should be ok with 65K 

No idea how you evidence between the 2 which is why I suggested he used an Agent for his 1st “Income” extension.... But if I was doing it myself I would have all the evidence of the 12 month transfers in 1 hand & if challenged, proof that I met the previous money in the bank extension in the other. 

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The question I have is: if you qualify using both money in the bank and income, how does Immigration decide which qualification has been used for the last extension?

I’m assuming by the paperwork that was used to support the extension…

12 Month statement showing 65K pm…. “Income”

Bank Statement showing 800K, “Deposit”

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I just used one to do my TM30, my first one ever, after 18 years here. 

Wow, how did you manage to get around not doing one for the past 3-4 years?

Out of interest how much did the Agent charge?

Seem to recall my 1st TM30 cost me 1,500b via an Agent even though I arrived in Thailand that day so had no fine to pay, would have cost me 1,200b in Taxis getting to/from CW so still worth it to me. 
 

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Must you show a statement with 24 months of monthly transfers to demonstrate that you qualified the previous year based on both income and money in the bank? Can Immigration again deny you based on the fact that you qualified the previous year via money in the bank?

I think for the 1st Extension based on Income he would need to show that he met the conditions for his previous extension as well as meeting the conditions to do his new extension which by the sounds of it he’s not going to be in a position to do so needs to use an Agent to get an Extension based on him doing 12 months transfers. 

Once he’s got the extension based on Income, there are no requirements other than to maintain the transfers each month so after another 12 months of extensions he should be good to do it himself. 
 

As Immigration would check to see that he has kept the 800K for 3 months after his previous extension, 400K for 7 months after that & has had 800K for 2 months after that & assuming he plans on starting his Transfers in Oct 2023 then I think have he would have to.

1. Extend via an Agent using the 800K in the Bank Method
2. Make 12 x 65K transfers Oct 2023 - Oct 2024
3. Use an Agent to get his extension based on the Income Method (Without an Agent, Immigration would check back to make sure he kept the money in place following the 2023 extension).
4. Extend based on Income in 2025

Either that or leave the country & come back with a new Non-IMM O (Laos & Vietnam seem to be the best place for doing it locally) as doing a Conversion in-country would still require him to have the 800K in the bank).  

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

What for? That is the question. 

Who knows why Immigration do 1/2 the things they do

Really bugs me when I do my extension & get a multi re-entry permit at the same time, Extension goes in, uses 1/2 a page of my passport, then gets stamped over & the MRP goes in & another 1/2 page of my passport is used ????   

@MPollmust be one of (if not the) 1st people to move an LTR to a new Passport so it wouldn't surprise me if Immigration aren't moving the Non-IMM O/OA Visa automatically & then adding on the LTR. 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Yes a month  before is 'standard' maximum. ......although  if you have some reason to do it sooner, and can show proof, like a flight ticket, I heard 45 days can be done.

Don't go getting a re-entry permit based on old Extension, and then doing a new Extension.

I thought it was 45 Days.

I always do mine 40-45 days beforehand, in fact I'm going in on Tuesday which will be 42 days before it's due (26th September) but I do use an Agent (for convenience) so it could be different if you're doing it yourself.

Mate of mine who uses an Agent (to assist with the Finances) went in to get them to do his 90 day report & they asked if he wanted his extension at the same time, this was 90 days before it was due. 

1 hour ago, Old Bangkok said:

Neighbour has been in Thailand for many years on OA extensions.

He is 85 years old and can't travel outside the country.

2 years ago, he changed inside the country, from OA to O with reason marriage to Thai. Not needed to travel outside country.

 

Did NON O extension, reason marriage, without any troubles this month.

However, he does not like to take all the required pictures every year.

He could only change from OA to Non O marriage, and not to NON O retirement at that time inside the country.

 

I know you can change the reason for NON O each year at time of extension, but he is coming from original OA.

Does immigration allow him to change NON O, reason marriage change to reason retirement next year?

He has the required money in the bank for long time.

As other's have said, he can't change from a Non-IMM OA to a Non-IMM O in-country so chances are he's simply changed his reason for extension to Marriage which does not require Health Insurance. 

If he can't leave the country then he might be able to get around the Health Insurance requirement by getting a letter from an Insurance company saying he cannot get Insurance & depositing 3 Million THB in the Bank (NB I'm not recommending he does this, just saying that it's a possibility). 

Alternatively I know guys in Pattaya who don't have Health Insurance so use an agent for their Non-IMM OA extension & it costs an extra 2,500b on top of the normal 12,500b. 

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

No,  I said this  could be a potential issue as a comment to @Mpoll report on the transfer of his LTR visa into his new passport; why did they have to record he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA?

They need to copy over details of your last entry to Thailand So I’m guessing that was the Visa he last entered Thailand on & he has since got his LTR in-Country. 

 
If he did get his LTR outside of Thailand & entered on it (not picked it up in Bangkok) then the only reason I can think off why they would put details of his old Visa in his new Passport is the LTR is so new they’re still getting to grips with how to do things like transfer to a new Passport & are used to copying the old Non-IMM O/OA info across. 

18 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

If that was so, and I agree it should be, but TIT, why would they insert into @MPoll's passport two stamps showing that he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA visa?

Don’t understand the question.

Are you saying they stamped him in on his Non-OA Visa & his LTR? In which case he would have 2 different Permission to stay stamps/dates, highly doubt the Thai immigration systems

cater for that!
 

Or Stamped him in on his Non-OA Visa then he picked up his LTR (at BOI in Bangkok) at which point they should have cancelled the permission to stay stamp from the Non-IMM OA & the Visa and gave him a new PTS for his LTR.
 

Anyways this discussion is mute as the question was something like “What would happen if I no longer met the Criteria when applying for my 2nd 5 year Visa, would I revert to my Non-IMM OA” & the answer is NO because that Visa would be gone (should be gone when you get the LTR but would certainly be gone after 12 months… Unless you have 2 passports & extend it each year, but we’re just getting silly now). 

On 8/11/2023 at 10:51 AM, Madgee said:

AFAIK,
You cannot get any pension, state or private, paid directly in to a Wise Acct.
Retiring Abroad: The Implications For Your Pension - Wise

That Wise article was written 8 years ago before Wise started offering “Bank” accounts & Debit cards hence the number of posts saying that their pensions are paid directly into their Wise account. 
 

Another question that comes up is whether you can pay funds into your UK Stockbroker account from Wise, I don’t see why not but haven’t had chance to check it out yet… Anybody Know for sure? 
 

On 8/11/2023 at 12:00 PM, poppysdad said:

Ok everybody and thanks for the replies, if I get the bad news then seems I can get my pensions direct to my Bangkok Bank or via Wise. I’d prefer Wise as I can then control when it comes into Thailand but is it the easiest route to set up from here and like on the very odd occasion I have to pay a uk bill can I do that from my Bangkok Bank account or does that become easier with my money deposited at Wise. 
Many years of trouble free banking and now well into my 70’s, and not in the best of health I get some aggro, hopefully most of my marbles are still in good order to get it all sorted. 

You might have missed @sammieuk1

But you could always open a GBP account with your Bank & have your pensions sent there, then convert it to THB when you need it/FX rates are good. 

9 hours ago, VBF said:

NOT true!

I live in UK and of all the places I shop, eat, drink or otherwise spend money, NONE of them, big or small, has abandoned cash.

A few have more e-payment places than cash tills but all will still happily relieve you of the folding stuff.

I don’t know if it was just a Covid thing at the time, but when flying back from Manchester in March 2022, one of the duty free shops at the Airport (not the main one, a small one selling Belgian Seashell chocolates) wouldn’t take cash so I had to pay on my Barclays Credit Card. 
 

And I’m pretty sure that in May this year, a shop at Cheshire Oaks said they didn’t accept cash but it wasn’t a problem as I was paying for everything on my Barclays Debit card that day. 

It is becoming more prevalent everywhere (went into a Starbucks at Lumpini MRT and they wouldn’t take cash) & if the Bank of England does introduce a Digital £ then I would expect it to become even more the norm. 

4 hours ago, tai4de2 said:

LA Consulate told me differently. Non-O not canceled and it’s possible to simultaneously hold two visas of different categories. Both eVisas in my case… but I’ll never test this theory LOL because I’m going to just use my LTR from now on. 

I confess that I don’t know how “EVisas” work & have always assumed that they were a means to entering Thailand where you would get an actual (as in physical) Visa put in your passport but now I think about it my mate is on a BOI “Smart” Visa & I don’t think he has an “actual” Visa in his passport. 
 

I’ve always been under the impression that you cannot hold 2 valid visas simultaneously (unless you have 2 passports) & adding a new Visa to your passport would cancel the existing one but if these Visas aren’t in your passport then I can see how that wouldn’t happen. 
 

But surely they cancel an old Electronic Visa when you get your new one or wouldn’t that cause confusion at the airport? 

1 hour ago, tai4de2 said:

I had a valid non-O when my LTR was issued as an eVisa. There was nothing about canceling the non-O and the consulate told me on the phone that said visa would not be automatically canceled and doesn’t need to be. So I believe my non-O may still be valid. 
 

As a practical matter this probably doesn’t matter because I won’t be using the non-O any more, and it will expire in 6 months. So I do agree with your overall conclusion. Just being pedantic. 

You cannot hold 2 valid visas at the same time so your old Non-O would be considered cancelled once the LTR was put in your passport. 
 

But as you say it’s irrelevant anyway as the Non-OA has a maximum lifetime of 12 months & we were discussing what happened if he didn’t meet the criteria when it came to getting the 2nd 5 year visa. 

18 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

People should or shouldn't have children at any age. What makes a parent isn't starting young or old. It's being able to raise that child as long as you're alive, until they leave the house, with love, patience and discipline. I'm 67 in 2 weeks, and have a daughter that's almost 7. I'm very healthy and strong for my age, and have already raised 4 more, mostly myself, that are adults now. Of course I hope to live to see her out and independent, but there's no guarantees. Not at any ages. Many people have children still young and don't take the time to raise them, but leave them with relatives and rarely see them. All depends on the person.

As I said, some guys have kids at my age & much older & good luck to them, but it's just not for me.   I'm sure your daughter adds to your enjoyment of life in ways that I can only imagine BUT the fact that I don't want kids at my age doesn't mean that I can't/don't have a meaningful relationship with my partner (For starters what about Gay couples? are they excluded from having meaningful relationships?) - Which was the point of the post I was replying to.  

I'm probably thinking too much with my Western brain as I know it's much more "Normal"/Acceptable in Thailand, but having a father who's old enough to be your great grandfather would single the kid out in the UK & you know how cruel other kids can be. And obviously the other major consideration is the risk in the child having some kind of medical problem dramatically increases with the age of the Father. 

I don't think too many guys plan on having children when they come here to retire but if it happens then I would hope they would adjust their life/plans to give the child a loving home (And I would do exactly the same if my partner got pregnant).

This subject has been on my mind a lot recently as my best mate (of 40+ years) Thai Girlfriend is due to have a baby in the next 10 days which might cause my GF to become broody & could lead to issues in our relationship, but I'm pretty adamant that I want to be free to travel for at least the next 10 years so I don't want anything that is going to tie me down (I don't even want a cat & I really love cats ????) - Selfish I know but it's my life/retirement so as long as I'm not hurting anybody (GF included) I should get to live it how I want to. 

To Each His Own...  

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

There is something I find fascinating with this thread: I flicked  through the 4 pages of it, and I didn't see any mention of children. I reckon that the posters here have lost the plot; you can't have any meaningful, long lasting relationship with a woman without having a family.

 

Apologies, just saw @kingstonkid's post; u r the shining light man..

A lot of guys move here & meet their wife at an age where (IMHO) they shouldn’t be having children 

I moved here full time at 53 (57 now) & count myself in that camp, the idea of being 65 and having a 12 year old kid isn’t for me & IMHO would be irresponsible/unfair on the kid.
 

Appreciate there’s a few guys who have kids when they’re in their 60s and are very happy, good luck to then, again it’s not for me. 
 

8 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

Hi, 

I'm about to do my first 90-day report ever. Does it make sense, technically or in any other way, to the first report in an immigration office - and the latter ones online. ? I wouldn't mind doing in person the first time, if that was the case. Bless

(It certainly used to be the case that) that your very 1st Report had to be done in-person (might be possible to mail it in) following which you can do them online.

Depending on how far your Immigration office is from you it might be worth looking into get an agent to do it on your behalf.

E.g. When I lived in Bangkok it used to take at least 1.5 hours to get to/from On Nut to CW or 1 minute to get to my Agent (they had an Office in my Condo block)... No prizes for guessing how I did mine before the online system became "Stable".

IIRC it was 375b per report but the 1st one might have been more expensive, (I remember paying 1,500b once but this might have been for my 1st TM30, it would have cost me 1,200 in Taxis to get to/from CW + take up the whole of my day so even at 1,500 it was still worth it to me). 

In Pattaya it's 200b for a "Normal" Report.

16 hours ago, OJAS said:

So how would this work in the case of those who, like myself, haven't lived in their home countries for 15 years?

Or people like me who not only haven't lived in their home country for 16 years, but 12 of those were spent living in a country that will not provide Police Clearance certificates for non-citizens/permanent residents (Singapore).

49 minutes ago, flyingtlger said:

Agents charge 35K or so, not worth it....

You might be getting confused between doing an Extension & converting a Visa Exempt / Tourist Visa to a Non-IMM O visa.

For the Non-IMM O Extension without the funds in the bank, it's typically 12,500-15,000b in Pattaya, I wouldn't imagine it would be too much more in say Bangkok.

For the "Conversion" it's 23,500 in Pattaya but I have heard 35,000 being quoted in Bangkok (Believe it was Siam Legal), this gets you the 90 day Non-IMM O Visa + 1st years Extension so you get a total of 15 months permission to stay after which you would go onto doing Extensions.

9 minutes ago, howerde said:

I hold an O-X visa i tried at CW they said no have to get abroad, it was a suitable visa for me, as i did not live in Thailand, i had been using visa exempt entries for about 5 years but immigration were starting to question all my entries, it does require 3 million in the bank at the time i would get 0% in my home country so the 0.5% i got at the time was better. The rules say after 1 year it can be reduced to 1.5 million BUT the 1.5 million must be spent in Thailand with no rules showing what they will accept as proof

If you are living full time in Thailand then i see no advantage to the O-X, Another disadvantage is you require health insurance from https://longstay.tgia.org/companiesox

they are not competitive,

Thanks for sharing your experience, not many people have the OX visa so it's good to hear from somebody with actual experience of applying for/holding one
.

As I've said in previous posts, if I qualified for the LTR visa I wouldn't even think about going for the OX but I don't,.

However I do have the money in the bank & the health insurance (Visa Friendly policy with Pacific Cross) to meet the criteria for the OX & even if I didn't go for it that wouldn't change, so I'm thinking why not try.  

Can I ask where you got your Non-IMM OX and how long it took you to get it

4 hours ago, arithai12 said:

There's one more point, which is to keep 3M in a bank at very low interest rate for 10 years, compared to keeping 800k. Let's see, 2.2M at 5% (easy) invested elsewhere, that adds up to over 1M Baht lost, or more if you reinvest the difference. So financially it really doesn't make sense. But I can see the point that for some people that's not so important, compared to peace of mind regarding extensions etc. Then there's the other very personal point, of who can see him/herself bound to living in Thailand for next 10 years.

 

I understand your point but the way I look at it is the 3Million is just for the initial Visa & even this can be 1.8Million if you can show 1.2Million pa (100K pm) income. After that you need to maintain a balance of not less than 1.5Million (I don't believe you can offset any of this with Income). 

1.5 Million is roughly what I spend each year (though past couple of years it's gone over 1.6) & I keep roughly 2 years spends in the Bank (Topped up every 6 months) so am going to have the money there anyway. 

Appreciate that I could be making more money by investing it elsewhere but it's just one part of my overall "Portfolio" of assets & I think I should keep a certain percentage of it in cash.

E.g. If I had assets of $1,000,000 (approx. 35Million THB) then  1.5Million THB would be approx. 4,2% of my overall net worth (I'm from the UK so deliberately chose a USD example so as not to get side-tracked into a "How much are you worth" debate).   

I know people will point out that I'm only insured for the 1st Million THB BUT if Bangkok Bank goes bust what I would lose in THB would be dwarfed by the extra THB I would get for my GBP... Thailand would be royally screwed if something like Bangkok Bank went belly up.

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Thinking that's on the money.

Some things can be done in Thailand with an agent eg retirement extensions without the financials . And something's cannot.

Thinking obtaining conversion to non O-X will be a NO

Agree 100%

Conversion to a Non Imm O-X is probably possible with enough money thrown at it but I'd be concerned (read wouldn't touch it with a barge pole ) if I wasn't sure that it was something that could legitimately be done in-country 

All indications are that it's not so I'm hoping Maneerat will confirm this. 

As a new Question? Does anybody know how long it takes to get a Non-Imm OX in their home country (Ideally UK)? 

11 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

If you wish to look into LTV suggest a chat with @ThailandRyan would be useful.

Helpful guy

Would love to, but I don't currently meet the income requirements (am 2.5 years away from my pension)

Having said that I apparently do, @Pib has kindly shown that Capital Gains can be included as income but my problem is, as a Non-UK Resident for Tax I don't need to report my (None Property) Capital gains so have no way of proving it

Maybe in 2.5 years when I hit the big 60 ???? 

In the meantime I'm gonna stick with the Non-IMM O (Assuming they don't "Age me out")