Mike Teavee

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think it would be interesting to have a poll on what the members here think it might rise to.

 

I have a feeling the approximate amount of the price increase will be telegraphed by the new Elite Visa prices.

Maybe somebody should start a Poll...

I would select an option that said no increases to existing O/OA Visa Holders (except maybe greater scrutiny on people having the money in the bank and/or income) & the creation of a completely new retirement visa based more on the OX...

Not unlike what they are (rumoured to be) doing with the Thailand Elite visa, i.e. leaving the existing Visas as-is & creating a new class of PE visa. 

If I had to select an increase I would go with 1Million/80K pm...

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am fairly sure they didn’t consider exchange rates when they set the 65k/800k, they probably set it at a level in THB that was significant in advantage to the Thai economy.

 

It would be interesting to know what that figure would be now adjusted for inflation.

It's well known that THB was pegged to USD for a longtime & I'm pretty sure it was UbonJoe (RIP) who shared that fact but I can't find the post as it was several years ago. 

39 minutes ago, Henryford said:

The problem is that the 800k was set when the GBP was 70+, with the GBP at 44 the 800k is really now 1.3m.

I seem to recall somebody saying that the 800K/65K pm was set to match on approx. $2K pm so at current rates that would be 70K pm /840K.

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Someone will be posting for you to obtain a PE visa (elite visa) 

It's an option but expensive.

You can buy a 5 year option which being 47yr is a good option.

It's all about what  you can afford.

@mrblonde If you do decide to go down the 5 year 600K PE route then do it quickly as the current PE offerings are changing from 15th September & current rumours are that the 5 year visa will cost 900K from 1st October. 

27 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Question: Would the people currently grandfathered in to the present system also be grandfathered into any new one. If so, how do they justify grandfathering one group and not another? 

 

Proposed alternative: why not raise the age of the retirement extensions to match the age of retirement in Thailand? 

And would existing Non-IMM O/OA holders who are under 60 be Grandfathered in or kicked out?
 

Probably the best approach would be to leave existing Non-IMM O/OA as they are and create a new visa type that matches what they want to see in Retirees, then let the old Non-IMM O/OA fade away naturally.
 
You never know, If they made the new Visa attractive enough (e.g. 1.5Million on deposit gets you a 5 year multi-entry visa) then some existing O/OA holders may switch. 
 

14 hours ago, MJCM said:

Even a law firm posted a video about it

 

 

They've just posted a new video on it... But basically saying the same thing... 

1. Nothing has change yet & it will take time before anything does.

2. Big Joke is no joke when it comes to Immigration changes so keep an eye out for updates in the news. 

3. Good possibility of Grandfathering but don't solely base your plans on them doing so...

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Every falangie I know here are married and either still have retire extension or marriage extension.

 

2 of them don't have to show money they get 15 months stay in Thailand but have to go out of Thailand to Laos and come back in.

 

Presumably they get a 1 year Multi (90 day) Entry Non-IMM O (would need to show the 400/800K in some bank or some proof of income to get) & do a border bounce towards the end of it to get the extra 3 months. 

Very easy for Marriage visa holders, not so easy for Retirees nowadays though that's the Visa I started on (got it in Penang when I was working in Singapore, used the 800K in my Thai bank, Singapore pay slips & a letter from the British Embassy confirming income - unfortunately the British & American/Australian Embassies no longer provide these ). 

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If you're here already it will be grandfathered. 

This happened with me in the last big change, from 200k-400k.

Fingers crossed, but as pointed out to me on another thread, they didn't Grandfather in existing Non-IMM OA holders when they introduced the Health Insurance requirement or existing Non-IMM O/OA holders when they made the 800K mandatory for 5 months & 400K for 7 months so who knows what the new government will do. 

I just hope whatever happens, consideration is given to guys who have lived here for years & simply don't have "a Home" to go back to anymore.

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The agent doesn't get the bank letter! 

 

If no need to attend in Jomtien, surely that is illegal. 

 

They can’t, the Banks would never allow it but they do accompany you to help you get it (& helped me get additional statements one year when I had amalgamated entries in my bank book). 
 

There is no need to attend immigration at Jomtien, you can sign a form authorising the agent to do the extension on your behalf. 
 

CW insists you attend except in Medical situations where you can’t attend & again sign a form authorising somebody to do it on your behalf 

3 minutes ago, itsari said:

Sheer speculation on your part.

Use your energy in something worth while .

Hey it’s all speculation & I hope we’re all wasting our time discussing something that amounts to nothing. 
 

But if the money in the bank requirement does go up, then I think it’s a Probability that the monthly income requirement will go up as the 2 things have always been more or less in step with each other. 

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Fair enough. Do you still have to go to immigration, but not queue? 

Yes at CW but the Agent makes an appointment & prior to the appointment system they knew exactly when to turn up to get seen more or less straightaway, in & out each year in 30-40 mins including getting the bank letter.
 

Don't need to attend at Jomtien.

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If I was retired, I think I could find time for half a day's work in immigration and photocopy shop. In fact, I think I would enjoy it to meet some other foreigners. 

 

If all said 'no' to these agents, immigration wouldn't keep making things harder for the honest ones. 

I hate queuing to the point where I’m happy to spend money to avoid it (e.g. Fast Track at airports) so maybe need a decent appointment booking system to go with clear/consistently applied requirements.

And I would still probably pay somebody to do it for me if the price was right. 
 

I’m sure most guys would get an agent to do it for them if it were free/cost a couple of hundred Baht… Just as I’m sure very few guys would use one it if it costs 100,000b. 
 

You do remind me of my 2 friends who have a go at me for paying an agent to do it, it’s ok for them they work here & their companies do it all for them.
 

I just sit back & smile and think wait until you have to go to the madness that is CW and get sent away because you’ve used a form that changed this week as almost happened to me on my 1st Extension, fortunately the IO got a form for me to sign, not sure they would have if I wasn’t there with my Agent. 

Always find it funny when people tell me I’m wasting my money when they spend > 10x as much on cigarettes (that’s my 2 mates btw not people on this thread ???? )
 

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What about using 65k a month.

Presumably if they up the deposit to 1.2Million, they’ll up the 65K to 100K pm

Thats a significant income to have to have each month, especially as it needs to be Nett of all taxes & any expenses in your home country (approx. £31,500 pa before tax or £2,308b pm after tax).

14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

That was before the 2014 "Government" and it's high quality appointees. They didn't grandfather a change in financial requirements for retirees - specifically 400k year 'round. I just think to change the deal on retirees makes Thailand NOT a retirement destination and that will likely be broadcast on the internet by people who have to leave and go back to rainy afternoons back home.

 

My guess is it will be 3m, maybe grandfathering, depending on who the Government is. No, I am not scaremongering. 3m seems to be their new minimum for "quality" judging by recent visas aimed at "quality" tourists. Easily achieved by not issuing new 800k extensions and requiring new retirees to get OA/OX (with all the attendant requirements such as no criminal record) in their home country.

If it does go to 3Million then I can only hope that the silver lining is we get the 10 (2x5) year visa that go along with the Non-IMM OX...

I would guess that the increase will be to either 1Million (has a nice round number feel about it) or 1.2Million (50% increase) either of which are a hell of a bump but not too big as to generate Headlines of "Thailand Doubles/Triples Requirements for Retirement Visas"  

Maybe somewhere in the middle? E.g. 1.5 - 2Million in the Bank for a 5 year Visa? 

19 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I don't believe there are any regulations which preclude banks from maintaining accounts for expat customers

I seem to remember at the time this was all kicking off, Barclays cited Brexit as the reason that they were unable to service Spanish customers as they no longer have a license to provide Banking Services in Spain & so started closing accounts for any customers who live in a country where they are not able to provide Banking services  (One of which is obviously Thailand) - Their T&Cs do say that you need to be UK Resident to have an account with them.   

For my UK Banks, Virgin (Now Natwest) who I have my mortgage with asked me to provide a TIN (Tax Identification number) for Thailand so they could report the interest they pay me, I told them to p155 off as it would be too much hassle for the sake of the £2 pa (I keep a small credit on my mortgage) interest I get... They've left me alone but last month wrote to my mate to tell him they'll be closing his account in September (He'd paid off his mortgage but kept the current account open) so maybe not heard the end of it. 

Barclays knows that I no longer live in the UK as they moved me to Singapore 15 years ago (My current account is still listed as a "Staff" account despite me not working for them for 9 years), but I'm still concerned that they'll come back & close my accounts, especially as my Brokerage/ISA accounts are with them but hopefully if that happens I'll be able to move over to using one of their IOM/Channel Island Offshore accounts... IIRC it's approx. £40 pm but don't really have a choice as all my income comes from the  UK nowadays. 

5 hours ago, mokwit said:

Sorry, should have in some way better indicated I was being sarcastic. We all had to keep 400k year 'round but the agency business continued as before.

 

Yep... The only Retirees impacted by the requirement to keep a minimum of 400K all year round were the ones who kept 800K in there in the 1st place. 

It had no impact on the people who don't keep the 800K & use an Agent to "Assist with Finances" for their extension who were presumably the target of the new rules. I don't even think Agents fee went up as a result of it.

Whatever changes they make I hope they will "Grandfather In" Retirees who have been here for many years, IIRC last time they increased the Finances they did this for Retirees who have had their (unbroken) Non-IMM O for 4 years. 

19 minutes ago, paulikens said:

I just realized as well now my passport has nothing on it for the 2 days i was in detention room.  IE. i got stamped out of Malaysia wednesday and then went back to Malaysia Friday.  Obviously Phuket didn't stamp me in.  what happens there?   cuz if the Thailand immigration haven't even flagged it on my passport, It will look like i just disappeared for one day.   

Not a problem, you could have gone to Singapore or Macau for a night, neither of them stamp your passport in or out nowadays

Singapore you could have entered via bus/car at Johor Bahru so no flight records either.

...

42 minutes ago, Pib said:

And then we have the Elite Visa program where a retiree (over or under 50) with low monthly income "but" who has enough to pay the Elite visa fee from savings, by borrowing the money from a bank/family/friends/loan shark/etc., selling some owned real estate, selling their car/family jewels, etc.  

Just wow...  ...

So we have Elite... Then we have PIB's I'm more elite than you... 

Words fail me (even the bad ones)... 

47 minutes ago, Pib said:

I wouldn't say the LTR program is "flawed for retirees" just because it does not include an option to substitute a large bank deposit in place of monthly passive income like for a Non-O retirement visa where  a person can use Bt800K large deposit to substitute for a Bt65K/month flow.    

 

Yes, it can be easily understood that the LTR Pensioner passive income requirement of Bt80K/year without any investment required....or passive income Bt40K-80K/year with Bt250K investment can be considered significantly more than what many average retirees receive and/or willing to investment in Thailand.

Sorry, but again... "Retiree" is not the same as "Pensioner"... 

Simple Question... when you were 1-2 years below your "Pension" age & retired (if you weren't retired then why not!) would you have met the Income requirements of the LTR (i.e. without your pension?).

21 hours ago, Klonko said:

In which respect  is LTR flawed for retirees which, if they can pay for an Elite membership, probably qualify as wealthy pensioners?

"Retiree" is not the same as "Pensioner" & clearly the "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR is geared more towards guys with a steady income coming from something like a Pension than those of us Retirees who are too young to receive our pensions so live on income from Rent, Dividends etc... & make up any short fall from savings.

That aside, I'm pretty sure that there are vastly (>10x) more Retirees/Pensioners (especially guys who already have 80% of it sat in the bank already) who could pay 1Million for an Elite membership but don't have the >$80,000 pa income & if they do have an income of $40,000, are not able/willing to invest $250,000

So no, most guys who could pay for a 1Million Elite Visa would not qualify for a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR.... I include myself in this camp & my monthly budget is > 250K pm which would seem to be more than enough to meet the $80K pa requirement if it was based on cash you have available to spend... So YES in my view, the LTR Visa for Retirees is flawed. 

On 7/30/2023 at 1:28 AM, Tuvoc said:

I had planned to buy the 20 yr one at 1 million baht about 2 years from now. If that will go up by 20-30% then I have some thinking to do, it may make sense to buy now.

I'm in exactly the same position and would be interested in hearing what your considerations are. 

The way I look it, the obvious downside is the 1Million outlay but as I keep 800K in the bank all year round, this would "Only" be 200K which would soon recouped by:-

1. I pay an agent 8K per year to do my extension, this includes the 1,900B immigration fee so 6,100K x 20 years = 122,000 - This assumes I don't leave the country in any one calendar year which, Covid type scenarios aside, is not going to happen
2. At the same time as doing my extension I pay my Agent 4K to get me a multi-reentry permit, 4,000 x 20 = 80,000 - So that's my 200K recouped 
3. I either travel business class (80K extra for a UK Trip) OR purchase Fast Track access (1,200b each way) when transiting BKK so assume paying for fast track, 3 trips a year = 6 x 1,200 x 20 = 144,000
4. Since I've lost my Prestige Credit card I now need to pay to use the lounges, assume 3 x 1,000 x 20 - 60,000

Obviously the 800K is real money that I've spent so when the 20 years is up I won't have it to support future extensions BUT I'll be 77 then & will have been receiving my private pensions for 17 years, State Pension for 10 so have no doubt that I can put away more than enough money to meet any future "Retirement" extension financial requirements..

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Interesting. 

Well as you know U.S. credit reports list your current and previous addresses.

A debit card comes with a bank account.

I'm talking about getting an actual credit cards.

I still don't quite get how if you get a credit card in Thailand that it wouldn't end up being picked up on your U.S. credit report.

What's the situation for Thais and credit cards? Do they have some kind of credit reporting / scoring system here? 

The way to think of MC/Visa is purely as Networks where they do not keep any data about you, just the transaction that you've made which wouldn't have things like your Address, Age, DOB, SS number etc... so it would be impossible for them to match any of your transactions on 1 card with transactions on another card.  All "Real" data is held by the bank that issues the card.

AFAIK The only financial information Thailand shares with the US is the FACTA related stuff (I'm British so they share none of our financial information with the UK) so there is no credit score type information shared.

The only time I could see information being shared would be if you applied for a new card in the US & your US Card Company wanted to have a broader understanding of your financial position but if this was the case then it has nothing to do with cards being Visa or Mastercard it's just your bank doing a deeper dive into your wider finances. 

I can only say that this didn't happen to me when I got my (Singapore) Citibank credit cards, the only thing they were interested in was my income in Singapore... And in fact when I quit my job there to retire, they cancelled both cards despite me having 5 times the credit limit on deposit with them & offering to secure the cards with a "Secure Bond".

Edit: I am not 100% sure but I would bet that there isn't a central Credit Score system in Thailand, if there is then they're doing a pretty sh1tty job as they allowed my GF to have 9 cards and "Borrow" (Spend!) 135,000b on her 15,000 pm salary.