pablo el sueco

I went to my immigration office today to inquire about the self-insurance provision of the Police Order, and here's how it went. Communication was through an interpreter who accompanied me. I was told that in order to self-insure, one must reject the insurance policy due to its exclusions (this rejection will elicit a denial letter from the insurance company); receive the denial letter from the insurance company -- this letter must be an original hardcopy letter, not an electronic scan of an e-mail, not a printed PDF document, and not a photocopy; have bank deposits totalling 3 million baht for at least 2 months prior to extension application. When applying for the extension of stay with the self-insurance provision, one must submit the original insurance denial letter; a copy of the bank passbook showing a balance of at least 3 million baht for 2 months; a bank statement confirming 3 million baht on deposit for 2 months; a bank letter certifying 3 million baht on deposit for 2 months. It's not a problem for the funds to be in more than one bank, however, the funds to self-insure (3 million) absolutely may not be in the same bank account as the funds for the extension of stay (800,000). This wrinkle surprised me as it is not mentioned in the Police Order. The reason I was given was a bit of a stretch: because the bank letter and bank statement confirming the funds would be too confusing for the immigration officer to interpret. Since, in my case, funds for self-insurance and extension of stay occur together in one of my accounts, I shall not be allowed to self-insure -- at least that is the ruling of my immigration office.

You may be right. I'll have to see what Imm. requires. Imm. may simply accept the insurance company's statement of exclusions as proof that I should be allowed to self-insure (self-insurance might be preferred in lieu of a policy with exclusions because it assures full coverage more reliably). To my mind, this is the unstated essence of the police order's provison for self-insurance -- reliable total coverage. Or, as you surmised, Imm. may require me to reject the exclusions outright; receive a rejection letter; and then be permitted to self-insure. There is at least one other outcome: My IO might be a rogue office that will just ignore the provisions of subparagraph 6.3 of the police order. My window for extending my stay opens up in two weeks on October 3. I hope to visit Imm. before that to get full details on how my IO plans to interpret the new rules for self-insuring. Wish me luck, please.

Yes, I agree with you that insurance companies write policies which exclude pre-existing conditions. LMG excludes certain pre-existing conditions from my policy, and documents those exclusions in their policy offering. If I reject the exclusions, the policy offering is rescinded. Thus, I believe LMG denies me full coverage and offers me only partial coverage. I don't know how else to interpret the terminology used in the police order -- it seems crystal clear to me despite the fact that sub-paragraph 6.3 is a massively overwrought run-on sentence. My hope is that my IO will interpret the police order as I do. I shall present the policy's documentation of my exclusions to my IO and ask whether I shall be permitted to self-insure using deposits of 3 million baht in the bank. Like you, JimGant, I have ample global insurance coverage as a benefit of my pension plan. When I came to Thailand 16 years ago, my US-based health coverage was in place. I do not want to throw any more money away on worthless insurance like I did for the past two years; the new police order, I believe, gives me an out. By the way, I have been extremely worried about having two policies in effect -- I am concerned whether each insurer will tell me that the other insurer has to pay. ????

This is hugely confusing for me to comprehend. The latest requirements for the extension which you posted, state "100,000 USD or 3,000,000 baht". The figure is mentioned in paragraph 6 of the Police Order: "3,000,000". For those, like me, who must self-insure because the insurance company partially or totally denies coverage, the amount required to be on deposit in Thai banks is 3,000,000 baht according to paragraph 6.3 of the Police Order. I cannot find any mention of 3,500,000 baht in the Police Order. If the Police Order truly dictates the requirements for the extension, then the requirement is 3,000,000 baht -- not 3,500,000 baht.

In another thread, @ubonjoe posted a link to RTP-Order-No.654-2564-1-1 dated December 27, 2021. Here is that link https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=865656&key=f655ef0f2aed6f222098efa9db805511 Paragraph (6.3) of this Order appears to confirm that the O/A retiree seeking an extension of stay must be FULLY insured for 3,000,000 baht otherwise the retiree can self-insure with bank deposits totalling 3,000,000 baht. To take advantage of this provision, however, the insurance company must certify that the retiree cannot be fully insured. Since the insurance I obtained for my previous 2 extensions did not cover pre-existing conditions, I have requested my insurance company to send me a certification of partially denying coverage. I have yet to receive a response from the insurance company. If anyone else has been able to obtain such certification that was acceptable to Immigration, please post details. If my insurance company stonewalls me in this, I will contact immigration to see whether the pdf of my insurance policy which itemizes the exclusions will be acceptable (though I fear it will not, ASEANNOW members have mentioned before that Immigration does not read insurance policies).

(6.3) states that the insurance company must certify evidence of partially denying health insurance purchase, and that the retiree must have 3,000,000 in bank deposits if the insurance company partially denies purchase. For my past two O/A retirement extensions, the LMG coverage I purchased excluded my pre-existing conditions. Question 1. Is exclusion of pre-existing conditions the same as partially denying health insurance purchase? Question 2. What is required from the insurance company to certify that they partially deny coverage, and to whom must they submit this certification? Question 3. Can the 3,000,000 in bank deposits be spread across multiple banks (since only 1,000,000 is insured in any one bank); and what documentation is required to prove the 3,000,000 -- passbook, statement, bank letter?

On 2/20/2022, I applied for an account with NAVY FCU, based upon my status as an Army Veteran from the 1960's. I uploaded the documents they requested. Ten days later, NAVY FCU sent me an email stating "MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION DENIED - Your application is not approved." They gave no reason for the denial. They invited me to appeal, which I did -- I sent an appeal and three followups with fotos of my water bill, electric bill, Social Security Card, IRA 1099, LMG Insurance Policy with my address, and various other photos demonstrating the veracity of my Thailand mailing address. I'm waiting for their response to my appeal.

Might I inquire whether your attempt to secure an account with SDFCU proved successful? The reason I ask is because I saw your posting and decided to apply as well. So, I joined American Consumer Council on 2/25/2022 and immediately applied for an account with SDFCU. With my original application, I uploaded several documents at their request. Eight days after that, they sent me an email requesting additional details about my water bill; they were particularly interested in the date of the meter reading, the address field, and the name field. I responded by uploading a detailed translation and discussion about the various data items on my water bill. My application is still PENDING, but I don't expect they will render a judgment for several more days.

So, it appears the news article I read is reporting a proposed policy change as though it were established fact. Regardless, based on my reading of that article, I have already begun to prepare for self-insuring. If I wait until this change is announced in the official publications, I may not have enough time to prepare. Any O/A retiree with pre-existing health conditions, and planning to apply for an extension after 1 October this year, should be aware of these possible rule changes in plenty of time to prepare. I understand the procedure involved in getting rid of my O/A and applying for non-O. I just think it will be far simpler to self-insure and remain O/A if that is going to be permitted.

I agree. I believe they will, instead, search for my record on the database maintained by the TGIA insurers, to see if I've been issued a policy that satisfies requirements. If comprehensive coverage is required, and my policy does not provide coverage for pre-existing conditions, then my policy would be missing from the database -- and my extension would be denied unless I can self-insure.

According to a news article published two days ago, a Ministry of Health memorandum has announced a significant new provision to be effective October 1, 2022. As I understand the reporting, O/A retirees must be able to obtain complete coverage under the TGIA scheme; those whose TGIA insurance coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions will not be able to satisfy this requirement. I think this would affect me since my current LMG coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions, and I assume the same limits will be applied if I tried to convert my 400,000 baht policy to a 3 million baht policy later this year. I need to know how to prepare for this eventuality. The news article states that if an O/A retiree cannot obtain comprehensive coverage, he will be allowed to self-insure or provide proof of adequate foreign insurance coverage in Thailand. The simplest way to accomplish this would be to prove deposits of 3,800,000 baht in Thai bank accounts (3,000,000 for the self-insurance and 800,000 for the extension requirement). But there are other permissible avenues which include deposits in foreign banks, foreign insurance such as Tricare that provides comprehensive coverage in Thailand, and property ownership. The logistics involved in proving foreign deposits and foreign insurance are likely to be quite complex. For those whose next extension of stay is due this year, there is not much time to prepare, and we need to know the specifics surrounding this new provision.

I just discovered that this topic was the subject of a different thread started in October 2021. It was well-discussed back then. I would post a link to that thread but I don't know how. The title of the other thread is "Is This Thailand Post Email A Scam?". Had I been able to discover that this topic already exists, I wouldn't have started a new thread. Thanks and apoligies to the author of the original thread @JetsetBkk

Okay. Fair question Thailandintervac is one of only three or four accounts that I set up in Thailand using my email address. The others are Thailand Immigration, and Thailand Banks. Those three or four accounts define the full universe of sites where my email address is linked to anything Thai, and could conceivably engender a Thai languge scammail to be issued to my inbox. I focused my speculation on thailandintervac and immigration because of their highly publicised data breaches in 2021 where scads of accounts were compromised. I am unaware of any publicised data breaches involving Thai banks, so I eliminated them from my speculation. If, indeed, my email account was targeted because of the thailandintervac data breach, it means that my registration thereon occurred prior to the data breach being discovered and repaired. That you have registered on thaliandintervac and have not been victimized, could be due to several factors, of which the three most obvious are your registration on thailandintervac occurred after the data breach was resolved the grifters who gained access to the data haven't targeted everyone involved in the breach ... yet my speculation, though logical, was erroneous

No, I really don't know how it works. The instructions just tell me to click on the link. What happens after that is a mystery. Can you shed more light on it? The emails are in Thai language; is the linked website in Thai language as well? How is the bogus fee supposed to be transferred by the victim to the grifter? Bitcoin is the only method I can think of that can offer the bad guy some anonymity. Does the linked website, masquerading as Thailand Post have instructions in the Thai Language requesting the victim to send 36.14 Baht in Bitcoin to some crypto Wallet?

No, I don't know what it is; it is not legitimate, that much is obvious. I wasn't aware of the existence of a well-known delivery fee scam. Wouldn't a delivery fee scam be correctly categorized as a malicious operation? Since it is so well-known, please let us all know how it works.

I, too, use a Linux operating system, but I don't feel the same invincibility as do you. I don't plan to share the links. I have now received five of the phishing emails from "Thailand Post", and some have gone straight to my spam folder. Check your spam folder, Oxx, and you may find your own to play with. If you do, and are brave enough to risk clicking on the links, please report back ... and good luck to you.

I speculate that I was targeted because I used my email account when I registered at thailandintervac for covid vaccine assistance; I also used it when I registered for the Thailand Immigration 90-day app and website. I think we all know that such websites have had issues with maintaining strict security protocols. I suspect you were targeted due to the same vulnerability.

I have more discovery to reveal about the phishing email purporting to be from Thailand Post. According to the email metadata, the two links that must be clicked on to engage the malware both point to a subdirectory within a Venezuelan charity's website. Mind-boggling. I guess sophisticated malware experts can disguise the links somehow; perhaps they appear to connect to Venezuela but actually they pass through to some malevolent cyber ring in Russia. I do NOT intend to research this any further by clicking on the links to see what happens!

I just got another one about 27 hours after the first one. The message differed only slightly from the first one -- the deadline for delivery date changed from 31.12.2021 to 01.01.2022. There was also an interesting change in the sender field. Both emails reflect the sender as being "Thailand Post." including the period at the end. When I hover my cursor above the sender name to reveal the sender's contact information, both emails track to an electronics corporation in Germany. The contact id for the first email was "noraeepliy@" followed by the German company web address. The contact id for the second email was "noraeaapy@" followed by the same web address. All other details of the two emails appear to be the same. Viewing the "raw message" which reveals much about the metadata of the two emails, I find that the source for the graphic image for Thailand Post is https://canadaposte-ca.servebeer.com/th.jpg

Beware. If you receive a message like this, do not click on the links embedded in the email. I am convinced it will try to install malware on your computer. The text of the email I received today was in Thai language beneath an official-looking graphic -- I used Google translate to render the Subject and the Body of the email into English. The Subject: "Your parcel could not be delivered. please pay shipping" The Body: "Hello Warning: This email notifies you that your shipment is pending. Your package could not be delivered on 29.12.2021 due to non-payment of customs duties ( 36.14 ฿ ). Deadline for delivery between 31.12.2021 Amount to be paid: 36.14 ฿ Beneficiary: Thai Post - Thai Post To confirm the delivery of your package, click here. You will receive an email or SMS when you arrive at your home address, you will have 8 days from the date it becomes available to withdraw your package. When withdrawing, you will be asked for your ID. for additional services Track your shipment by clicking here. Thank you for your trust,, Yours sincerely, Serving your Thai Post Group customer service" There were many clues that this was not a legitimate contact from Thailand Post. The main one being that Thailand Post does not contact addressees by email to arrange for delivery of a package; they leave a notice in the mailbox.

Same here. I have global coverage on a policy paid for by my pension provider. I am inclined to take the approach you described -- pay the LMG premium every year and never file a claim on it. However, when my pension plan asks whether I have competing coverage, as they do when a claim is filed, I think I have to tell the truth about having the LMG coverage. Were they to discover that I lied to them on a claim form, I fear they might cancel my policy.

@JimGant and @Boomer6969 Thank you both for your helpful answers to my questions. You provided precisely the information I needed.

PathumThani required a 12-month bank statement for each of my last two annual retirement extensions. This is despite the fact they also examined my passbook at 3-month and 6-month intervals after the last two extensions. In addition to the 12-month statement, they also require a bank letter and an updated passbook when one applies for an extension.

My next (and 16th consecutive) OA retirement extension will occur after September 1, 2022. I am a klutz when it comes to understanding the complicated realm of medical insurance, and I have five questions about the way the new requirements in the "scheme" will affect me. Does the "scheme" for 2022 and beyond still have no provision for immigration to accept foreign coverage in lieu of the required TGIA plans? Does anyone know the cheapest available plan in the "scheme" for 2022 and beyond for each age-group? I shall need to start amending my budget to accommodate the increased premium costs. Premium quotes are always based on age. If I am 75 years old when I start the coverage, but I shall turn 76 years old during the course of the coverage-year, will I pay the premium amount for a 75-year-old, or the premium amount for a 76-year-old? Do the plans in the "scheme" increase premium amounts only at the announced changes in age; or do they also increase premium amounts when the insurance company has to pay a claim on the policy? Can coverage in the "scheme" jeopardize or adversely affect the working of my foreign insurance coverage?

Yes, I entered Thailand 15 years ago on an O-A visa.