WaveHunter

Well that works too ????. So, maybe we're on the same page after all. Whether it skipping breakfast or not eating after 5pm, we are both extending the fasted state in one way or another, and that's all I'm really talking about. It's funny you should mention casein protein. I was just watching something on this the other day! It was in a YouTube video about protein requirements for optimal performance, and he discussed the use of pre-sleep use casein protein. It is at 29:58 in the attached video. The author of the video is a guy with an MS in exercise physiology and currently a doctoral candidate in metabolic medicine. The videos he produces are NOT the run-of-the-mill dopey videos by YouTube Gurus. This guy really knows his stuff on a wide range of metabolic topics, many of which are geared specifically towards athletes. It is ALL science-based, and he backs up everything with links to the supporting peer-reviewed studies he references. What's more he is one of the most objective and unbiased YouTubers I've ever seen! When there are two schools of thought on a topic, he discusses both and is passionate about his view BUT leave it to you to decide for yourself. While he is still a med school student, he is also teaching undergraduate classes in biology and nutrition, and has a working fellowship in a major research lab, co-authoring some of the peer-reviewed papers produced, so his credentials are far beyond those of the most of the so-called YouTube nutrition gurus out there! THe playlist of his YouTube channel is wide-ranging covering all sorts of metabolic topics of interest. Some are just topical 5 minute videos, but some go into great depth, yet are delivered in easy-to-understand (but not dumbed down) fashion. Sorry to be SO enthusiastic but I just discovered his channel and am VERY impressed! Well worth scanning his playlist for topics of interest and subscribing for new content! His YouTube channel is: PHYSIONICS - Learn Your Body

These days, home-made is usually a better way to go for sure!

Ergo my "sinful" snack ????. I like Alpen brand best which they used to sell at the big Food Mart on Thappraya Rd in Jomtien, but they seem to have stopped stocking it ????. Alpen also makes a sugar-free version but I never saw it on the shelves.

Personally I love hot Muesli with chopped bananas, and it used to be my favorite breakfast...but now it is an occasional joyful but sort of sinful snack. I don't do too well with grains or dairy products.????

Hi RImmer, That sounds promising. If you could give me contact info. I'd sure appreciate it. All I'm really looking for is a science-based practitioner. I didn't think it would be that hard to find someone who simply understands anatomy and physiology enough to provide effective treatment, but what you describe sounds good to me!

Oh you again LOL! I can always count on you to offer nothing to a thread except your inflammatory comments. First of all, there was no indication from anyone on this forum or elsewhere that he was, in fact, retired. His Google page showed patient feedback from only one month ago, and his business phone is still connected. So, just how would I know he was retired until I finally reached him on the phone today after four days of leaving messages, and why would I owe him an apology for calling? Your comment was unhelpful and obviously designed to bait me into a heated exchange, like you've often done in the past. I've never understood the perverse pleasure you seem to get from such behavior, but if that's your thing I hope my reply makes you happy ????

OK, I agree with you that OMAD is not suitable for everybody. Even though I have practiced it and feel comfortable with it, I'm planning to change over to two meals a day (lunch and dinner). My point all along is not about OMAD but about skipping breakfasts. In real simplistic terms, I'm just saying that prolonging the fasted state of sleep by skipping breakfast is beneficial, not just for obese people but for everyone, and the reason is simply that it allows the body to reduce insulin levels throughout the day just enough so that pathways for BOTH glucose and lipid pathways are optimized. If you are always in a satiated state, you are not optimally exercising the pathways for lipid metabolism, and like anything that is not adequately exercised, it becomes compromised if not used. And again, I fail to find any science-based studies that prove that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day". When you look purely at the metabolic mechanisms involved, there are more negative aspects to eating breakfast than positive ones. I also agree that many proponents of Keto overemphasize insulin as a culprit, but the fact remains that there is a growing obesity and diabetes epidemic in the world today, and it coincides with the emergence of junk foods, 24 hour supermarkets, and the prolific use of processed foods, all of which cause may people to have turned into "food grazers" who consume food from the moment the wake up until the moment they go to bed. What's more, most of those food grazers consume FAR MORE carbohydrates than the body needs. This leads to excessively high insulin levels in the body. The result of abnormally high insulin levels over time are: 1) Inhibited lipolysis (fewer fatty acids are available to fuel muscles and other metabolically driven tissues. 2) Stimulated lipogenesis. a shift from "fat burning mode" to "fat storing mode" OK, sure, if you consume large quantities of carbs but keep your glucose to 5% as you describe (i.e.: by burning the glucose through exercise for instance), increased insulin levels are still present, and over time this will lead to diminished efficiency of insulin receptors in the cells, and a shift in metabolic pathways for glucose/lipids that cause inhibited lipolysis and stimulated lipogenesis. It's NOT all about glucose levels! Insulin plays just as important a role in metabolic health, and keeping it at optimal levels is just as important as keeping glucose at optimal levels.

I was able to reach Dr. Kelsey a few minutes ago. He informed me that he has indeed retired. I have to say I was a little put off by his attitude when I asked him if he could recommend someone else, and was told only flatly that "there is no one else", and didn't seem to want to offer any useful suggestion. That is not exactly the attitude of a good practitioner to simply leave someone in distress with no helpful advice, reardless of whether or not he is retired. ???? I can not believe that in the population of all of the expats on this forum, nobody has any advice on finding a good practitioner that treats back pain and has a good science-based background for treatment. Still hoping somebody can offer some helpful advice...

Any other suggestions besides Nigel Kelsey? I've been trying to reach him for 3 days without response. The pain is worsening so I need to find a competent and responsive practitioner.

How many obese people do you think have glycogen mass below 5% of their liver weight? Probably ZERO. I think we are talking about two different things. I am talking purely about the physiological mechanisms associated with high insulin levels resulting from excessive carbohydrates in the typical SAD diet, which are usually the same people who "graze" on food throughout the day, eating three or more meals per day and snack in between them. The equation is very simple: Excessive insulin = Decreased levels of lipolysis Excessive insulin = Increased levels of lipogenesis Decreased levels of lipolysis + Increased levels of lipogenesis encourages storage of fat in fat cells instead of it being used as fuel. This is just basic metabolic science based on peer reviewed research in the last few years. Do you agree or not?

Thanks so much, I took a look at his Google map page and all the feedback sounds like you described...just the type of doctor I'm looking for I think. Most appreciated ????

That looks like a nice setup; I'm jealous ????

Again, I am not talking about insulin's effect on glucose levels; I am talking about excessive insulin's physiological effect on lipid metabolism, more specifically its' effect on Inhibiting lipolysis (fewer fatty acids being available to fuel your muscles and other metabolically driven tissues), and Stimulating lipogenesis. (fatty acids being moved from your bloodstream into fat cells.). Put another way, chronically high insulin levels in the long-term interfere with "fat adaptation". What I mean by that is that the metabolic pathways that normally allow the body to shift over to burning stored fat as fuel are compromised, and made less efficient when glycogen levels fall. It is the main reason that I like to practice a low carb, keto-like diet. As a cyclist, I hate the idea of "carb loading" before a ride or using sports drinks / gels on a ride to maintain glycogen levels because it makes me feel lethargic, and eventually even nauseous after too many gels. I think the whole concept of carb-loading is wrong! Instead, by being fat-adapted through a low carb diet, my body is forced to become very efficient at shifting over to fat stores when glycogen stores become depleted (i.e.: "when you hit the wall"). A lot of athletes are beginning to discover this is really an effective alternative to carb-loading. On the one hand, I'm just voicing my personal opinion based on my own experiences of course, but on the other hand there is a lot of science to support it. Of course, everybody is different so I'm not criticizing you if you disagree, BUT I don't think you should dismiss this idea just because you feel off-kilter when your glycogen stores get low because it takes time to become "fat adapted" When I started trying to get away from carb-loading, it took weeks for my body to become fully fat-adapted, and during the transition period I felt horrible on many rides. But then when it started kicking in, I was really surprised how well it works...and most importantly, from a physiological standpoint, there is a lot of peer-reviewed science-based research to support what I'm talking about. I mean, the human body is a complex and wondrous machine and even today we've barely even scratched the surface in understanding how it really works ????

I understand your skepticism, and it's fair to be skeptical, but I'm not talking about the relationship of insulin to glucose levels. That's only one aspect of what insulin does.. What I'm talking about is insulin as a hormone, and its' effect on lipid metabolism....two completely different things, really. There is a really good paper on the physiologic effects of Insulin on lipid metabolism from a well vetted academic source (The Yale University School of Medicine.) https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00063.2017 And a more simplified version from the Colorado State University School of Medicine at: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/pancreas/insulin_phys.html

Yes, I also use a glucose / ketone meter, and you make a good point EXCEPT what I am saying is that by extending the sleep-induced fasting by skipping breakfast means that your resting insulin levels stay low enough throughout the rest of the day so that lipolysis and lipogenesis do not impact fat metabolism as much. I'm not saying that whether or not you eat breakfast is like an "on/off switch" in this regard. It's more like a "dimmer switch". Optimal fat metabolism can not occur when insulin levels are too high, and so, by extending your fasted state by not eating until, say, lunch, you have effectively made fat metabolism more efficient. It's not some sort of dramatic change, but over time it can (and usually does) make the difference between a person becoming obese as they age, or one who is able to maintain a healthy percentage of body fat as they get older. That's the thing that so many people misinterpret about things like OMAD (one meal per day). It isn't about cutting out meals and getting all your calories in one meal but rather, it is about extending the fasted state after sleeping to keep insulin at a lower level throughout the day...just a little bit. It is about finding that happy medium where insulin levels to not negatively impact lipolysis or lipogenesis.

It is not the insulin "spikes" that matters as much as the relative level of insulin in the body throughout the day. If insulin is always at a level that inhibits lipolysis and stimulates lipogenesis, your body will not be able to utilize stored fat efficiently, and will be more prone to store fast, as opposed to using stored fat as fuel. This used to be a controversial hypothesis referred to as the "carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity", but science based studies during the last couple of years has proven it to be absolutely factual. It is true whether you are a fit athlete with a good nutritional plan, or a sedentary person who eats junk food all day. If you are consuming three or more meals per day, and also snacking in between (i.e.: sweets, energy bars, or, protein shakes that are so popular in gyms), your insulin levels will be high enough to cause impaired fat metabolism. However, when you come out of a fast that is induced by 8 hours of sleep, and then skip breakfast, you are lowering insulin levels throughout the day to a point where they do not inhibit lipolysis or stimulate lipogenesis, and therefore allows the body to optimally utilize consumed calories throughout the rest of the day to fuel the body, and minimally store them as fat. What I like most about the metabolic sciences is that they are discovering new things every day that dispel old myths that many less well-read medical doctors still preach to their patients.

LOL! EVERYBODY hates cardio! Show me a person who loves cardio and I'll show you a liar ???? Like you say, the trick is to find something you enjoy that has cardio aspects to it (like swimming or cycling for me) and then you can endure the unpleasant cardio-like aspects of your sport.

Looking for Therapeutic Massage for a recurring back issue and would like leads to a good practitioner who knows what they are doing. Living in Chiang Mai I had an excellent one but it took a long time to find one that REALLY knew what they were doing, understood anatomy, and had a science-based approach that yielded quick results. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

For some, myself included, New Year's Resolutions simply are a tangible benchmark that's helpful with tasks one often puts off with the "I'll start tomorrow" mentality. I second your enthusiasm about rowing machines. Those things can be a really intense aerobic workout in minimum time, and it's a lot less stressful to the body (joints) than running. Personally I like cycling and swimming for aerobic conditioning, btu when I used to go to gyms I always liked using the rowing machine over other aerobic machines like treadmill or elliptical.

NOTE: My previous post should have been deleted for errors, but so far it has not been. Here is the correct reply: My point is simply that breakfast is NOT the most important meal of the day. Your last meal from the previous day provides all the glycogen you need, not only through the following morning but well into the day for most people. For most people, it takes about 18 hours to completely deplete your glycogen stores after the last meal. So, if your last meal is, say, at 6pm, you have ample glycogen to last you through to lunch time the next day. By NOT eating breakfast you give your body a chance to lower insulin levels enough to encourages lipolysis (tapping into stored body fat). It also lessens the degree of lipogenesis (fatty acids being moved from the blood seam to the fat cells. Most obese people follow some variant of Standard American Diet (SAD), meaning that they eat 3 meals a day and snack in between meals. Obviously this means that their insulin levels are always high. Chronically high insulin levels have been proven in countless studies in the last few years to: 1) Inhibit lipolysis which means fewer fatty acids are available to fuel your muscles and other metabolically driven tissues. You are therefore limiting your body's ability to burn fat. 2) Stimulates lipogenesis. This means that fatty acids are moved from your bloodstream into fat cells. Your body therefore is in a fat storing mode, not a fat burning mode. 3) Lipogenesis also causes carbs to be converted and stored as fat (i.e.: de novo lipogenisis.). This is all science-based. The notion that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is not.

Psyllium husk is good while on Keto as long as you are staying well hydrated, but you need to get it WITHOUT sugar. The typical ones you buy at 7-11 contain sugar, and a lot of it! Even the small amount of sugar in a single dose will seriously jeopardize ketogenesis. What you want is pure psyllium husks with no additives, which you can easily and inexpensively buy on Lazada. When I lived in the US I always got Yerba Prima brand which was excellent. The brand on Lazada is basically the same product, and it is quite cheap! https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i593894401-s1114460632.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&spm=spm%3Da2o4m.order_details.item_title.1

Carbs or protein for breakfast? Neither actually. Based on sound science, the best thing you can do for your body is to skip breakfast entirely (assuming you are in otherwise reasonably good health), and if you overweight and/or are leaning towards a pre-diabetic state, it is even more advantageous to skip breakfast. It really is a false narrative that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day". Your body has amply glycogen stores from your previous day's food intake to properly fuel the body through most of the the next day. Any hunger that you feel by skipping breakfast is psychological, and your body will easily adjust to this in a matter of days. By abstaining from breakfast, you avoid a completely unnecessary insulin spike in the morning. If you are overweight, this is even more important because low insulin levels allow your body to easily access fat stores to use as fuel. If your body has high insulin levels, accessing fat stores is highly inefficient. The very idea that you must eat every few hours is completely bogus and flies in the face of science. We evolved from a hunter/gatherer culture and so our bodies are adapted to going long periods of time without food. What they are not adapted to doing is dealing with non-stop eating during your waking hours, which is how most people who have metabolic issues (like being overweight) habitually do. We have turned into a culture of people who eat three meals a day, and consume snacks in between meals. We consume food from the moment we wake up in the morning until we climb into bed at night! It's no wonder that so many people have abnormally high insulin levels, which in turn leads to nasty things like obesity, and worse, Diabetes type 2. It should be no surprise that obesity and Diabetes type 2 are at epidemic levels now throughout Western countries, when 50 years ago,that was not the case! Clearly there is a link between dietary habits and these metabolic syndromes, and scientific research during the last few years has made it clear the high insulin resulting from constantly consuming food throughout the day, and gross overconsumption of carbohydrates is the cause . Keeping insulin levels low by skipping breakfast and avoiding unnecessary carbs is the best thing you can do for your body, especially as you get older, and completely skipping breakfast is the easiest and most efficient way to do it.

As an American, after the month of overindulging in tasy (though perhaps not the healthiest foods) from Thanksgiving through to the end of the year, I always do a prolonged water fast to start the New Year. It's not so much about losing excess fat but more about sort of "cleaning out the system" metabolically speaking; think of it as early "Spring house cleaning" for the body. Anyone else making New Year's resolutions along these lines?

Yes but FastShip was far cheaper than what FedEx quoted so I guess they get some sort of volume discount. Nonetheless, next time I will go directly with FedEx since the service from FastShip was not the best, and they held the package for 2 days before they arranged the FedEx pickup.

It's a little confusing I guess but my shipper was FastShip and THEY contracted with FedEx to make the shipment. Basically they send Kerry out to me to pick up package, bring it to them, and then they inspect it and have FedEx pick it up at their office. Once it is in FedEx's hands then I must deal directly with FedEx (and so I guess at that point, FedEx then becomes my shipper of record).