Fromas

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

because you specifically asked what should be done "Now".

No. I asked "then and now" because you kept claiming "they did nothing" and made mistakes from the outset.

In athletic terms, you're running circles around those incompetents.

I sense a trend.

You have aspirations and qualitative-subjective evaluations. You either don't have data, or assume them.

A lot of people are wrong about things, even the kings. But you are right.

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

It changed it, sure, but both BEFORE and AFTER this change Sweden had less deaths per head than many other EU countries, most of which used hard lockdown.

And on Mars, where there is no lockdown, there are 0 infections.

False comparison. Different places, different base points.

What's your data on Sweden? If lockdowns are useless as you claim, why did they lock down?

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

It's vaccination across the board like in Israel, and proper tracing and isolation like in South Korea.

Ask Israel about lockdowns.

Ask South Korea about lockdowns.

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Now, there should be less reliance on lockdown and more reliance on vaccination.

Now you're making me laugh.

When were vaccines widely available for this novum?

"less reliance" "more reliance" what the heck do you mean? HARD DATA please.

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Including Sweden, which hardly had any lockdowns. But still less deaths per head than most EU countries.

Sweden changed its "no lockdown" policy when it wasn't working. FACT.

Why shouldn't they?

Why wasn't it needed?

Data please.

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

"Ah Wuhan lockdown stopped the pandemic" but on the other "ermmm, yes further lockdowns were needed to stop the pandemic". Do you not see the inherent contradiction?

The contradiction exists only in your mind. It's a pandemic. It's here. Lockdowns are temporal containment measures to contain the RATE of infections. "Ah Wuhan lockdown stopped the pandemic" is something you invented as a straw man.

Give me hard data. Your speech-making should be based on data, not replace data.

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

After the virus spread widely any use of lockdowns lost in usefulness in proportion to that spread.

What is "widely"?

Can you provide data?

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Not at all, you just missed where I said that lockdowns had to be done early in the pandemic. After the virus spread widely any use of lockdowns lost in usefulness in proportion to that spread. At the very start of the pandemic of course it was a different story. But like deer in the headlights our health ministries and politicians just watched and did nothing. Then when it was too late they went into panic mode and most likely overreacted.

They did nothing. To rephrase, they got it all wrong. What would YOU do differently, then and now?

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Lockdowns can only reduce transmissions to a certain degree, by some numbers, but it is clear they can not stop the pandemic and only vaccines coupled with contact tracing and isolation can do that.

Who claimed otherwise? If nobody, why are you bringing it up?

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The proof is that pandemic has kept spreading despite lockdowns.

Given that lockdowns are a temporal measure, affecting RATE, what's your point?

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

If you ask me, yes, I think of course all countries could have succeeded in staying safe and prevented wide-spread covid 19 disasters IF they had locked down early, when spread was minimal.

You CONTRADICT your own statements.

Just now, Logosone said:

but lockdowns will not do so to any meaningful degree.

Lockdowns in early containment stages, when vaccination has not reached a critical mass, useless?

Assertion of fact. What's your proof?

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I note you can attack me personally, that's fine, but you can not attack my arguments so that explains your personal insults. But that's fine, it's well established when those come out.

You would insinuate that the King of Sweden and the health authorities are wrong about the situation in Sweden.

Your proof is "it will all come out"?

And you're claiming ad hominem?

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Whether the change of gears will make any difference remains to be seen.

No. There's data. Why don't you bring up the data instead of stating opinion/speculation as fact?

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

There have been tons of mistakes done by health ministry officials and politicians in this pandemic.

 

The first was not to have prepared for the pandemic in the first place. In 2015 the Robert Koch Institute warned of a SARS pandemic, but nothing was done. Bill Gates warned of a pandemic, nothing was done. Our health officials and politicians have failed us.

 

Then when the pandemic hit nothing was done at all initially, when it would have made all the difference. The health ministries and politicians were watching tv and what was happening in Wuhan, instead of locking down when it could have succeeded.

 

Then they took knee-jerk measures many of which proved to be false. The handling of this pandemic has been a disaster across the board, from China to German to UK to USA. Everywhere.

You should run for UN Sec.-Gen. Or replace Tedros!  Then we will be ready to face the aliens!

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

It seems obvious that the lockdowns that were put in place in many countries did not result in an end of the virus spread.

Who claimed they would? You?

19 minutes ago, Logosone said:

It doesn't matter what the King of Sweden, or some Swedish health official thinks of Tegnell's no lockdown policy, the fact is ...

Sweden changed gears. FACT.

What the King of Sweden, or some Swedish health official thinks is MORE INFORMED AND MORE IMPORTANT than what you think. FACT.

14 minutes ago, Logosone said:

However do you know how many transmissions the UK lockdown has stopped? The Italian one? The Spanish one? Didn't think so

Don't ask me.

Ask them! ????????

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Again, health ministry officials make mistakes.

Humans make mistakes.

You are human.

Ergo, you may have made a mistake.

So?

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

My point is that health ministries have made mistake

No. Your point is that you are right, and they are wrong.

I bet on them.

Just now, Logosone said:

the fact is that his very minimal lockdown measures have NOT resulted in deaths per head that are massively greater than deaths per head in other EU countries.

Sweden is dumb then for locking down!

Internet expert is right!

Comparing static snapshots of case spreads is useful for evaluation of temporal measures!

Over to you, Jeffr2. ????

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes, you're quite right health departments will say lockdowns are useful now, but of course had you picked up the phone to them in March 2020, the UK health department would have told you that masks are not proven to be useful. Just because a health department says something does not make it so.

What's your point? That health ministries get dumber with more data?

Do you know more than they? Do you seriously speculate that same time next year, they will tell you lockdowns weren't ever useful?

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Well, for example Italy, Spain, UK all had very hard lockdowns.

When did Italy, Spain, UK lock down? In what phase of containment?

You'd want to compare Sweden with her immediate neighbors.

You'd want to know what Sweden thinks of Tegnell's "no lockdown" policy, or what his health ministry now thinks about it.

You haven't bothered to read through my questions. They sound antagonistic, but read them anyway. Then apply your knowledge to what Thailand should do or should not do.

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Sweden is actually an example that lockdowns are not a great advantage.

Go ask Sweden. Pick up the phone and call anyone in Sweden's health department and inquire whether lockdowns are useful.

Then, pick up the phone and call anyone in UK's health department.

"Knee-jerk," "panic," you just want to win a debate by throwing in loaded terms. Who's knee-jerking? Who's panicking?

Most importantly of all:

Here. Thailand. Now. Lockdown / restrict / what should Thailand do?

Since you know, tell us.
 

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

A number of European countries have more cases and deaths than Sweden.

When did those countries "lock down"? How did they "lock down"? Are they landlocked by "lockdown countries"?

You think flashing a graph with a static snapshot of cases shows anything?