ThomasThBKK

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

I think the magazine title in which this article appeared, CEO World, should give a hint. There is no denying that patients with the financial means and first-class health insurance can receive excellent medical treatment here and are courted like kings. But.... what about the vast majority of citizens, the so-called unwashed masses? I very much doubt they'd blow into the same horn as CEO World.

 

Receiving a few paracetamols or dispensed-like-candies antibiotics in a village medical center, or cueing up for countless hours in overcrowded public hospitals just to get a simple x-ray or change of wound dressing is perhaps not exactly what these people would laud as "among the best in the world." Not that CEO World editors bothered to do any research into that, did they?

Not even that, cmon, you think if u are rich u can magically find better doctors here than let's say in GERMANY or USA??? 

Heck no. Most leading specialists are in the west, some in Japan, some in China and co - but no one here. 

All those sheikhs coming to Germany for treatment or the USA... 

I have no idea where they messed up this ranking but it's utter <deleted>. 

according to this ranking Germany is the second best public healthcare system in the world: https://www.yahoo.com/now/countries-best-public-health-care-040100876.html

Quote

Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems

1. Sweden

2. Germany

3. Denmark

4. Canada

5. Switzerland

6. Netherlands

7. Norway

8. United Kingdom

9. Finland

10. Japan

This looks more realistic than the rubbish they post here, if you have unlimited money than the USA is best tho I suppose, you just can't beat the amount of expensive specialists they have there. 

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Yes Europeans + Americas are less in number than China. But they stay longer. The accurate figure here is tourist days: arrivals x length of stay. Example. 10 arrivals x 3 days = 30 tourist days and is less than 4 arrivals x 20 days = 80 tourist days. Then if you divide total recipes by tourist days: For China, $196/TD . For Europeans+Americas , $133/TD

Well then BANGLADESHIS are the next best thing for Thailand.

Those numbers are hugely skewed anyway and are coming from VISA and MC and Unionpay.

Europeans bring cash and exchange it to THB, especially germans as we don't have credit cards that work here (visapay and maestro EC card <deleted>).

And that money is not accounted for at all, but always conveniently left out.

also europeans actually venture out and buy street food unlike those tour groups, those transactions aren't accounted anywhere, nor are the red light ones - we are quite good at throwing money at girls and getting scammed by taxi drivers etc.

 
There's also no seperation between business and tourist travellers in their numbers, prolly because no one bothers to get a business visa for thailand anyway.

4 hours ago, fabruer said:

Am I missing something? The spread sheet you posted shows exactly what the article say: per person spending of Europeans and Americans is less than East Asian/ASEAN. 

 

Most forum members (including me) won't like this, but from a business point of view it makes sense to chase customers that spend approx. 30% more per day per person in comparison.

Europeans spend 70416.15 THB on avg and the Chinese spend 45731.48 on avg.

7 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Very sad and a hard lesson to learn.  Never go guarantor on anyone else's loan, ever.

 

Legally you're agreeing that if they cannot (or simply don't want to) pay back the loan, you will pay it back for them.  It seems quite common that people default also.

 

Cruel that someone's childhood friend would do this to them.  I wonder if selling the actual vehicle to recoup some of the loss is a possibility.

Yeah its so obvious, i mean cmon but yet i know dozens of thais who got rekt for doing this, they just don't listen... Some of them well educated, intelligent people... i don't know what goes on in their heads.

Just now, robin hood said:

That is just to much. 500 baht per person.  And by the way don’t come back we want quality tourists….

Especially if u life here and travel In and out once a month in normal times.... no <deleted> way I pay that every time I enter Thailand

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

You guys are focusing on semantics too much. Replace 'digital nomad' with 'remote worker' and you may start to see the appeal.

 

There are a lot of newly remote professionals due to Covid. And a lot of what Thailand has to offer is appealing to them, believe it or not. And I think I would know lol - I'm one of them, as are many of my friends.

 

To address some of your points so that you know how people will evaluate these:

• Nothing in the known text stipulates a minimum amount of time that needs to be spent in Thailand. It's basically a free pass to come and go as you please. Effectively it turns Thailand into a regional base with extremely minimal required commitment on behalf of the visa holder (Group 3 applicants);
• Groups 2-4 don't actually seem to require a land purchase or any investment in the country. Not 100% sure about this for Group 2 (the 'or $80,000' line is a bit unclear). But anyway, unlike the Elite visa these can be picked up for virtually zero liability. At worst you turn cash into some other asset on the balance sheet;
• 17% flat tax is attractive. I could see some people changing their tax residences to take advantage of the offer, particularly given the low qualifying requirements relative to other lower-tax jurisdictions. I'm reasonably sure some bright people will actually find a way to declare tax residence in Thailand while earning abroad and end up paying effectively 0% income tax. Please message me if you figure out how to do this;
• For HNWI looking to diversity RE holdings, the visa rights allow them market access while basically providing an additional residence perk for something they wanted to do anyway.

---

Now that I've typed this I sorta want to delete before posting lest the authorities read it and decide they were too generous with the terms lmao. But otoh it might be educational for this audience so I'll post and hope for the best.

Sure, the first 3 items can be more easily had with an elite visa tho and there's nearly zero paperwork involved. The 90 day reporting is a non issue outside of Covid due to frequent travelling.

4th point is what would me make apply for these IF they offer unrestricted land access in a place that I choose without strings attache, this could even be limited to a max size of land a la 10 rai.

If this is only for approved building projects from Thai developers it's entirely useless, at least for me.

I can't see that last point happening, so I am not so hyped up about this at all - I hope I am wrong tho.

44 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

You've got to be pretty dim-witted to blow half a million dollars on Thai government bonds.

 

By the way, Thai government, in case you don't realize it: There are plenty of potential victims for you to "woo" out there whose wealth is NOT based on having earned a master's degree in anything. So... why your continued obsession with that? Particularly highly successful "digital nomads" very often are entirely self-tutored. And they are good at what they're doing, master's degree or not. Many of the self-made Chinese millionaires come to mind, too. Theirs very frequently is a rags-to-riches tale.

 

Last but not least. I guess that a large proportion of those "wooed ones" will eventually regret their decision of basically having thrown away half a million $ or purchased overpriced property once they realize that they could've had had quite the same "privileges" at less expense by going the "regular route".

 

Granted, there won't be a "special" 10-year visa, 90 day reports will be necessary, and yes, they will have to live in a rented property. So what?  It's no big inconvenience. Wealthy foreigners DO have the financial means to simply furnish an "agency" with a power of attorney to handle all their visa and work permit needs. One-year extensions on a THB800,000/400,000 "deposit" requirement are not a bad deal for reasonably well-to-do foreigners, really.      

Yeah i/friends went through these stuff before elsewhere and the difference is that you are normally allowed to sell the bonds or real estate after 3-5 years and KEEP THE VISA/RESIDENCY/PASSPORT.

This doesn't seem the case here, which makes this whole program <deleted>. 

Gov bonds are basically a bet on thai bath continuing to exist with lousy interest rate and blabla, a bad investment for every normal person. 

Elite visa for 1 mio thb 20 years without all this baggage seems better, and just use the usual work around for land... doesnt matter if u have thai family anyway.

I am also self employed, college dropout that is running his own business since forever... their obsession with master degrees is stupid, plenty of "rich farmers" etc. out there too.

If you want a normal looking mountainbike or streetbike as an ebike, GIANT and other big brands are selling here too. 

https://www.giant-bicyclesthailand.com/shop?Collection=GIANT+2021&sort=price_descending

Prices are a ripoff compared to the west tho, mainly due to import taxes... like always

58 minutes ago, DavisH said:

You think that would work? The Chinese would just love that kind of bilateral agreement - they know full well the majority of Thais won't move to China, but you can bet millions of Chinese would move here - and price the average Thai out of the market. I don't see any plan being discussed coming to fruition. These ideas have ben raised before..and just get shelved. 

Chinese cannot own land in China either, only the gov can... Private ownership of land does not exist, they don't know this concept and couldn't care less about Thailands laws anyway.

2 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

I thought most of the land was owned by either: the banks or the government or the temples.I

 

Around here, most land has no chanote, and that which does is in hock to the bank. The land without chanote is worked... Sometimes... The land with, well, no one can afford to pay the debt to the banks and no one can work it while it belongs to the banks...

So, the land without chanote, who really owns it...?

By default all land is owned by VIP, unless it has a title deed.

There are other big land owners like the government who owns all the national parks etc. and yes the temples.

Foreign landownership in this country that is rather large and has lots of costal areas is an absolute non-issue.

58 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Thailand should never let this happen. Mega agribusinesses like Archer Daniels will buy up all of Thai agri-land, kick the peasants out, and them sell the products abroad while the average Thai will starve.

Companies can already buy and own land using a Board of Investment sheme, this is for private citizens, your comment makes zero sense.

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Don’t think it’s a good idea either, except maybe for real expats, easy to prove, with a maximum size restriction. Look what’s happened in Cambodia, the Chinese invasion has ruined Siem Reap, Sihanouk ville and is well on the way in Phnom Penh. They’re like weeds.

Yeah i did, no one can own land in cambodia except cambodians.

What's your point? Their rotten government stole land and leased it to chinese companies and made gambling legal, that's what happened, totally unrelated to this visa.

18 minutes ago, clokwise said:

If they in any way make it easier for Chinese to own land in Thailand, you can expect property prices to skyrocket as they have in Vancouver, Sydney, etc, places where massive numbers of mainland Chinese dominate the property markets. Of course this is ideal if you are already a rich landowner in Thailand, but for the young working class in Thailand, many will no longer be able to afford their own home.

The only reason they buy RE there is to get a passport. 

Thailand offers none of this, and is entirely irrelevant to those kind of people.

1 hour ago, newnative said:

      I suppose I must be missing something but, for local economies, and local workers, wouldn't 100 regular members of the 'tuna fish gang' with regular retirement incomes be far better than 1 millionaire 'caviar' consuming resident?  The millionaire maybe buys 1 or 2 supercars so 1 or 2 car sales and servicing.  The 100 regular retirees buy lots more cars so lots more sales and servicing at a variety of car dealers.  Ditto for everything else, many more of everything--condos and homes, both sales and rentals, and using local services and local workers for personal grooming services, house cleaning, handyman repairs, laundries, health care, pool cleaning, gardening services, and supporting restaurants and lots of other businesses.

    So, Thailand is setting off on its quest to find a few millionaires.  As always, spouting impossible  pie-in-the-sky potential numbers which will be periodically greatly reduced.  Meanwhile, more meaningful numbers would likely be achieved with streamlining immigration rules and paperwork, relaxing the foreign quota rule on condo sales, allowing foreigners to purchase 1 plot of land with a maximum designated size, an optional foreigner health care plan to help keep older retirees here, and reducing many high taxes on items to a more reasonable figure.   

They already have a visa, it's called retirement visa...

29 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

A big lacking on detail here. 

 

Amending the Land Code or this is a big deal that will be fiercely resisted by most Thais inside and outside parliament. Maybe they will try what Thaksin tried for the elite card, ie set up a government nominee service to buy land (and sell it when privileges expire or the owners dies).  But even this was resisted on the grounds that acting as a nominee for foreigners was illegal no matter who did it.  

There are laws in place already that allows foreigner to own small parts of land, but never get used. 

Quote

Foreign investors who bring in capital investment of more than THB 40 million over a period of five consecutive years can own up to one rai of land (1,600 square meters) which the land can only be used for residential purposes. Before acquiring land, the foreign investor must obtain permission from the Minister of Interior.

Under section 96 bis of the Land Code, the following issues must be included in the Ministerial Regulations concerning the acquisition of land by foreigners:

• The type of business that the foreigner invests in must benefit the economy or society of the country or is an enterprise that the Board of Investment has declared to be a business eligible to apply for investment promotion under the Investment Promotion Act
• The land foreigners may acquire must be within Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, Pattaya City, Municipality or within the area designated to be a residential area under the Town Planning Act

Could just ammend these laws or actually use them... thais like to overcomplicate all sorts of stuff tho...

7 minutes ago, Oxx said:

Wealthy people don't like being told what to do with their money.  Being ordered to buy significant amounts of Thai government bonds (with their pathetic yield) is offensive, as is the requirement to buy insurance.  The rich don't need insurance; they can pay out of their own pockets.

 

This is another case of the government imposing pointless conditions, leading to a scheme that will fail - very much like the scheme for foreigners to visit Thailand under Covid.

yeah that why wealthy chinese rush to canada and australia because they hate being told how to invest their money in gov bonds or RE to get residency so much....

What u think wealthy people give af about and what they really do are two entirely different things. 

These shemes exist in most countries including the united states of america, the uk, australia and co. - and somehow there's plenty of people using them. 

Nice visa sheme, might apply for it after PE visa expires.

Bonus points for pissing off the whole forum here for barely not even yet existing.

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

That model doesn't have adjustable armrests which is important for my wife.

It has a model with adjustable armrests, i prefer the leaf armrests tho.