suiging

Scott's position illustrates the emotive nature of the subject and how if taken from one perspective folk can get quite cross with other folk who look at the subject from a different angle.

Looking at the whole thread, don't feel anyone has been disrespectful ( apart from me with a couple of bedlamised replies) just a bunch of guys and gals quite rightly outraged by these perverts, but just ever so slightly "misunderstanding ' each others valid points of view

Peace

I never knew he could do that !!!!!!!

I can assure you that I am quite right. I worked with sex offenders in a prison. Do you honestly believe that a young man who is emotionally attracted to a girl would drug her and rape her? Do you think that he would physically overpower her--the physical resistance would be enough for most men to lose complete interest in sex.

The men who rape and molest are some of the saddest characters on earth. With the exception of a few sociopaths who can be quite charming, these are extremely lonely individuals who have been unable to form a close human bond with anyone. They are moralistic (yes, some are even religious in the extreme)and they are rigid.

Normal men feel a level of protectiveness and compassion for the opposite sex. Men will go to great extents to win the affection of women they desire--they've even been known to go to war over it.

You are absolutely right about the prison population rapist. However I would say that the vast majority of rapists never see the inside of a jail. These "normal" (relative term ) are the thugs and louts I referred to who plague inner cities and get away with just about anything including rape as their victims either through shame, fear or again peer pressure do not come forward

And it it some of THOSE rapists that are the subject of this thread.

Quite............

I can assure you that I am quite right. I worked with sex offenders in a prison. Do you honestly believe that a young man who is emotionally attracted to a girl would drug her and rape her? Do you think that he would physically overpower her--the physical resistance would be enough for most men to lose complete interest in sex.

The men who rape and molest are some of the saddest characters on earth. With the exception of a few sociopaths who can be quite charming, these are extremely lonely individuals who have been unable to form a close human bond with anyone. They are moralistic (yes, some are even religious in the extreme)and they are rigid.

Normal men feel a level of protectiveness and compassion for the opposite sex. Men will go to great extents to win the affection of women they desire--they've even been known to go to war over it.

You are absolutely right about the prison population rapist. However I would say that the vast majority of rapists never see the inside of a jail. These "normal" (relative term ) are the thugs and louts I referred to who plague inner cities and get away with just about anything including rape as their victims either through shame, fear or again peer pressure do not come forward

Here's a question and I hope both sides of this debate offer an opinion:

I'm having sex with a married woman (very consensual). I am about 10 seconds from climax when we hear her husband pull up outside. She moves to jump out of bed because she doesn't want to get caught. I don't want to get caught either, but heck...I'm just about there!...so I strengthen my grip on her shoulders and force her to continue. She struggles for the 10 seconds that it takes until I relax my hold, sated.

Did I just rape her?

I suggest you stop being so tight and get a proper lawyer.......................

Hmmmm, I'm not sure if you have your Bedlam hat on or your coppers helmet. I assure you I don't need a lawyer.

Keep my helmet out of this..................

Here's a question and I hope both sides of this debate offer an opinion:

I'm having sex with a married woman (very consensual). I am about 10 seconds from climax when we hear her husband pull up outside. She moves to jump out of bed because she doesn't want to get caught. I don't want to get caught either, but heck...I'm just about there!...so I strengthen my grip on her shoulders and force her to continue. She struggles for the 10 seconds that it takes until I relax my hold, sated.

Did I just rape her?

I suggest you stop being so tight and get a proper lawyer.......................

I think some posters are getting really mixed up about sexual attraction and rape. Being stimulated by someone is very, very different from rape.

Rape is a violent crime and is generally not about being stimulated. Women are not raped because they are 'desirable' to the rapist. They are raped because he hates them and hates what they represent. He wishes to control and humiliate them.

Good description of the mentally ill rapist, however does not really cover the frustrated, drunk nineteen year old Virgin who will not take no for an answer, or the macho male either bowing to peer group pressure or doing the most outrageous acts to gain acceptance.

These idiots are the reality of city streets in a great number of countries.

Well, I'm about to make myself as popular as a pork pie in a synagogue with some but here goes.

No surprise that the majority of rapes occur indoors, that's to be expected as the majority of ALL crime is committed by a perpetrator who knows his/her victim.

Rapists come in many guises the true mentally ill variety may be attracted to a "mother" figure or any other iconic presentation that sets of their psychosis. In general, what is worn is about as relevant as hair colour, glasses, age etc , etc.

The clothing debate for me does not include these " sick" people, as the dress is just another trigger in a long line of possibilities, each as likely as each other.

The dress issue ( for me !!) Is about misunderstanding messages. Weak willed people fuelled by chemical substances, may well have a tendency to revert to the primeval , which is just under the surface of us all. In the big time clock of life on earth, we ( humans) really are a late edition and the veneer of civilisation we purport to have is just that, a thin veneer. We still fight, murder and kill at a tribal whim, and the fight or flight trigger in all animals has not been conquered and never will be.

I do not believe ladies do their hair, put on their most alluring dress and make-up to watch the nightly soap on the telly. The putting on of the finery is there to attract and Impress as much if not more than ever it is to make the wearer feel good. To be honest, the "I only put it on for me" argument is a sham and may be truthful in 0.0009 percent of the population. Men are no different. The majority ( well those not from Essex ) go to the pub in their best on a Friday night to send a message. Now what that message maybe is where the problems occur. In the UK for a male it maybe look at my " Stone Island " sweater.......I'm hard. It may be look at my Italian suit.....I make money. Nine times out of ten with a single male, it is to put himself in a shop window to attract the opposite sex; no different to a strutting Peacock, a roaring Lion, or a chest pounding Gorilla.

Ladies? Sorry girls no difference. The clothes you wear send a message. What that message is known by you and by you alone, but the interpretation is open to the eye of the beholder, every single time. It may be, 'Look at me. I'm sexy, well dressed, but I'm out for a night with the girls, so don't touch ". It may be just the opposite. However, it is naive in the extreme and downright silly to get on your high horse and say i can wear what I want,when I want, whenever I want and it shouldn't matter. Silly because deep down you are aware that you are sending messages all the time to members of the opposite sex. Gestures, glances, the clothes you wear all send out these subliminal and often not so subliminal messages. What you can't control,Is how they are received and interpreted, thus you must understand and take precautions against ( sorry but true ), any mis-interpretation by a pissed up, drugged up, small dicked male, who reads you wrong and uses dutch courage to attack.

Should you be allowed to wear what you like whenever you like, and wherever you feel like it ...OF COURSE. In a perfect civilised world that should be the case. But we are not in a world where such a state of Nirvana exists, nor in any of our life times, will we ever be. Can a white man walk the streets of handsworth in Birmingham or East LA in a KK outfit and expect that his message of " Im allowed my political freedom in this country so I'll wear what I like, and expect free passage " to be heard, understood and respected ? I think not. Same principle i'm afraid, people must be aware of the dangers that exist whether you like them or not, and use appropriate caution.

So ladies, by all means wear what you like in the inner cities, country villages, wherever....But be aware of the possible mis-understandings that may occur and be cautious. Please don't take a political high horse position and leave yourself open to attack from the spotty faced nerd who if sober, would never have the balls to say hi, just because you think you are protected by your moral right to do whatever you want with impunity.

That would right Humph.

Forgot to add the compounds for the technically needed are there in Africa too. Not a jot or tittle from the local community allowed in. Food, drink, all from China, and all the wages either sent home or paid directly to the Chinese families bank account. No benefit whatsoever to the local economy....................

Well, to me both Fascism and Communism in the forms they presented themselves in during the last century are two sides of the same coin.

Both dictatorships, both just names given to a bunch of ego maniacs controlling a population devastated by war and looking for a leadership who offered scapegoats and excuses for why they " the chosen ones " were not to blame for their own situation.

The reason I said in the forms they presented themselves in, is the fascists to my mind, were actually less hypocritical than the communists. Fascist ideology, was almost " Roman" in concept with the dictator bedecked in laurels but without a Senate to keep said " Caesar's " feet grounded in some form of reality. Thus Hitler, Mussolini etal.......Presented themselves to the people as what they were, despots devoid of morals, and totally ruthless in their demands for power and blind loyalty, promising to conquer, not teach.

Communists on the other hand total hypocrites. Why?................ Well, for me "true" communism ( as promised ) if it could ever work, with a harmonious, caring society where the fat of the land is shared by all with a common goal to make the world a better place, really should be utopia ( albeit a tad dull ).

What did the Russians and the Chinese get ? Same despotic rule as the other lot , but with pretensions that the mass killings and deprivations were really there to make the workers equal, not dead.

Both presentations inherently evil......................

But what about the black dwarfs I here you ask .............?

The Chinese laugh and laugh at the West with the foreign aid thing. On the QT they are slowly buying Africa. Their idea of foreign aid is to build roads and infrastructure for free but only for concessions to build huge factories in the now connected backwaters using the locals as cheap labour. Yes, they build schools and medical centres at their factories, but solely for the purpose of keeping the workers on the job creating wealth for the Kingdom of Heaven. They control their investments. They don't throw millions ( billions) at totally corrupt administrations with no control how the money is spent. They engage said corrupt administrations making them both wealthy without a care in the world for the average " ant" who does the work. They don't pour money into trying to religiously convert said native, as they have no religion, accept power and money.

Here endeth the lesson on how China will one day rule the world

I have just gotta admit, the retreats on this thread have been on a par with the brilliant withdrawlal from the gates of Stalingrad by Manstein.

Bit harsh there Mossy.

Manstein led the attempt to relieve Stalingrad after being appointed to lead the army group Don. However he never quite made it to Stalingrad to relieve the 6th Army. He pulled back after Paulus

refused to attack from within the Russian ring ( he also refused to commit suicide ) and his Romanian, Italian and Hungarian allies on the wings got yet another kicking as his nose was blooded by the jolly Russki.

The Russians probably committed the greatest mass raping in history as they swarmed into Germany ( much like the Japanese in China ). Not sure the German ladies dress sense had a fat lot to do with it, more the male power thing which I believe to this day, is there in the weak willed of the male species.

However he never quite made it

Hence my statement 'from the gates', I should have added a kilometre or two, perhaps.

von Paulus couldn't break out to meet Manstein, he was ordered to hold to the last man from Hitler and then promoted to Field Marshall and told no German Field Marshall had ever been captured, hence the order to commit suicide, which he refused on account of being Catholic. (All from memory, so perhaps not exactly word perfect)

My point was, after the defeat at Stalingrad, it is generally acknowledged that Mansteins fighting retreat was brilliant, out numbered and out gunned he was even able to command a counter attack that enabled a better, if not ultimately defeated defence of the Rhine allowing a greater amount of women and children to reach the safety!! of the Western Allies.

A further analogy, does anyone on here have a striking resemblance to von Paulus?

A yet further anology, have I ever told the story of the black haired dwarves from the Narnia books?

That has just gotta be another thread....

That would be just about right. His son was with him inside the ring and Paulus pushed him through the last gap before closure. Young Adolf was so up set he never promoted anyone to Field Marshal rank again.

What about them dwarfs eh !!!!

Well, the Arab guy was corrupt so they've replaced him with a Chinese guy............................That'll work.

Insight.

Clear your mind and listen to my words.

I have never said attractiveness is not an issue. I have never once said that, in fact on many occasions have clearly said that attractiveness is often an issue. I have also said that on many occasions that attractiveness is not an issue, but that does not mean to say I said it was never an issue.

You keep on going on about attractiveness and making the assumption that the mini skirt and boob tube would be something that the rapist will find attractive. You keep in making that assumption repeatedly with considering that many men would find different clothing more attractive and more provocative than skimpy clothing.

I'll try to put it as simply as I can......

Two women walking down a dark alleyway. One is wearing a mini skirt and boob tube, the other is wearing a long, figure hugging dress.......

Who is more likely to be raped?

The unlucky one...................end of.

Bloody hell lads. I've kept out of this one because it's so dam_n depressing.

I have been a cop since 1978 ( military/civil). I have been to the scene of more rapes than I would care to remember and every one is different. Young military men in packs, individual sadisits with mental problems, drunken husbands etc etc yarda yarda yarda

Empirical data chaps, everyone different, no victim ever "asked" for it. Please don't bring the venom of OTB to the asylum. It's the only place where I don't have to act as a big boy and the pals here have a sense of fun and live and let live ( mooners hasn't slotted Ian for God's sake )

Sat on an arm chair the other week which had a sixty something English tourist murdered and stuffed in it. Did I feel silly and horrified at the same time, when I found the body 24 hours later. Dear old Bedders always an outlet for lunatics to vent and kick of the <deleted> of the real world...................Don't make it like the rest of the board, there's a good bunch.

On the same bus that takes the aid worker in carrying his charity donation, sits an arms dealer or the like at the back of the bus with a nice fat contract in his briefcase.

Off topic posts removed.

The discussion isn't about whose rude and who isn't. It's also not about places where the sun doesn't shine.

Who mentioned Skegness ?

I have just gotta admit, the retreats on this thread have been on a par with the brilliant withdrawlal from the gates of Stalingrad by Manstein.

Bit harsh there Mossy.

Manstein led the attempt to relieve Stalingrad after being appointed to lead the army group Don. However he never quite made it to Stalingrad to relieve the 6th Army. He pulled back after Paulus

refused to attack from within the Russian ring ( he also refused to commit suicide ) and his Romanian, Italian and Hungarian allies on the wings got yet another kicking as his nose was blooded by the jolly Russki.

The Russians probably committed the greatest mass raping in history as they swarmed into Germany ( much like the Japanese in China ). Not sure the German ladies dress sense had a fat lot to do with it, more the male power thing which I believe to this day, is there in the weak willed of the male species.

Marmite was developed around 1900 by Marston Brewery, who wanted to find a use for the used yeast that went to make that glorious nectar - Marston Pedigree.

Burton-on-Trent is the home of this most drinkable of all beers and thus the nearest place to heaven-on-Earth one can get (apart from Cambridge, of course).

Marstons used to be a customer of mine, I loved visiting them just for the aroma.

My Granny was in the WRACs. Whilst Gramps was away fighting the Hun, she used to get " visited a lot " ( family folk law). Never thought to ask if the aroma was the attraction..............

This IS Bedlam...and I was going to ask about the Irishation of his name too.....that's been done, so....Does he really think Michelle's butt doesn't look big in that dress? (But that would be a cruel question wouldn't it because we all know the answer)

But just in case it was a serious question about a serious question......

Area 51 would be up there......

Osama's burial at sea would be up there.....

....... I would ask what are ALL of the motives of American involvement in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq?

Ask those and you'd be swimming around in a bowl trying to escape Captain Bird's Eye quicker than Mooners can get his fists up. Best stick to one's gleaned from " Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader " or meaningful points about string.

Are Bill Clinton and Ryan Giggs really related ?

I'm not sure I want to here a description of " Buggering in a bag".....................

covering all parts of the world and priced to suit all pockets: from £10 to £100,000.

who would pay 100,000 Pounds for a map which is most probably out of date

A Dutch antiqarian map dealer recently found a map drawn up in about 1530 by a German cartographer, based upon Magellan's voyage across the Pacific.

He reckons he'll get over a million euros for it.

(Yes, yes, I know - next week a million euros will only buy an ice-cream cone)

That's the first map to depict towels left on pool-side furniture.................

After hearing that " TV love story ", I feel such a heel now for constantly turning down "neverdies" amorous advances. Sorry sailor....................

That looks like lots of little black boys grabbing her ass.........