RayC

Have the qualifications, skills and experience the UK needs to be a doctor, you are welcome (Freedom of movement route) Don't have the qualifications, skills and experience the UK needs to be a doctor sorry you can't practise in the UK, but we have a skill shortage in other sectors which might interest you (Freedom of movement route) Withdrawal of freedom of movement can arguably be considered a major factor in the problems in the UK labour market since 2020. We are going off at tangents. Unless you can supply any new data to negate my view that a system which imposes barriers will act as a disincentive to potential migrants - especially when compared with a system of unrestricted freedom of movement - then I'm going to call it a day. Have the last word and call yourself the victor if it makes you feel better.

You are grasping at straws. That's exactly the same link that you posted previously. It did absolutely nothing +/-1 hour ago to negate my analogy and does precisely the same i.e. absolutely nothing to negate my analogy now. Whatever way you want to dress things up, the fact remains that a system which imposes barriers - whether that be in the form of fees, an elongated administrative process or in any other way - will act as a disincentive to potential migrants, especially when compared with a system of unrestricted freedom of movement. I can only assume that you are arguing for argument's sake and/or are too proud to admit when you are wrong.

If the majority of the US public are in favour of increasing the chances of dying or being injured by firearms that's their prérogative. The overwhelming majority of European citizens favour the opposite.

The analogy stands. Did you miss the bit where it states that there are "reduced fees" and "fast-tracked" entry? That's not, 'NO fees' and 'NO barriers to entry'. You're welcome.

Ah, that'll be the answer. A good old- fashioned, Western style gunfight. Sorry that you got caught in the crossfire, Mrs Passerby. Yeeha!!

I'm not 'dissing' Trump. I'm merely pointing out that the obvious fact that Western European cities don't have a monopoly on scammers. They exist worldwide. The problem of illegal immigration in Europe is a lot more difficult to solve, not least because the area that needs to be covered is far greater than the US border with Mexico.

Possibly the same time? And the scammers in the US; are they able to multitask?

Yes that it is odd way to go about things but there is nothing odd about the call for more doctors. And in the meantime while we wait for these new doctors to enter the workforce, we will continue to be dependent on overseas labour to fill the gaps which is why we should make the immigration process as easy as possible for applicants. Sadly, that is not currently the case.

Many female Romanian scammers have singing voices similar to Angela Gheorghiu😉

I doubt that Paris has Mexican scammers on the scale of LA.

I agree that previous governments have done little to solve the problems in the NHS and have often increased them. However, the current government cannot be blamed for past mistakes and might come up with a plan to improve matters (Ok, I'll admit that I live in hope more than expectation). Reform are (currently) toying with the idea of proposing a healthcare system based on the French model. I would fully support such a move. I have long believed that the 'mutuelle' model used throughout much of mainland Europe is superior to the British system. However, I very much doubt that this policy will appear in Reform's manifesto: If you tell the British electorate that they will have to pay a contribution - no matter how small - for a visit to the GP, hospital appointments, operation, etc then that party will lose votes. Once again, we (partially at least) agree. The NHS is inefficient and we have been nicking staff from around the world since the '50s. Imo the blame for that can be lain, in part, at the feet of the likes of the BMA who appear to be resistant to any change. However, there is nothing odd about the call for more doctors and nurses: Demand for the NHS services are increasing as is life expectancy - albeit at a slower rate than it was - and our ratio of doctors to patients is the highest among developed countries. The call for more healthcare professionals seems to be justified. Most French doctors like most UK, Dutch, American, <insert nationality here> and most workers in most sectors will work in their country of birth for their entire career. However, we should be welcoming and making things as easy as possible for the intrepid minority who wish to saveur the delights of working in the UK. The current 'Skilled Worker' visa process can be viewed as having the opposite effect.

That'll be it. When London was run by Johnson's Conservatives all crime miraculously disappeared 🤔

I've no idea what you think this proves? Again, no scammers in any US cities?

Of course, there are no dodgy areas in New York, LA, Chicago, etc.

* Did you seriously think that British workers would all flock to Poland to take advantage of their movie star wages and state benefits? No. But 1.2 (UN estimate) to 2m (UK government estimate) resided in the EU pre-Brexit. I was one of them. How has withdrawing this right of residency improved the lot of other Britons? * The whole EEC/EU idea made some sense for the original 6-12 members, who shared a weak semblance of economic equality. If you recall there was a shortage of plumbers at one point in the UK. This problem was solved by a large number of Polish tradesmen arriving. Similar story for fruit picking. On that occasion it was mainly Bulgarians and Romanians who picked up the slack. * A lot more money repatriated than you are suggesting, I would say. Irrespective of how much money was repatriated, these immigrants spent money in the local economy. * That would would have gone down well, I'm sure. You worry about immigrant labour driving down wages, but when it is suggested that a way to mitigate this possibility is to increase the minimum wage you object. You can't have it both ways. * I didn't say that but I would say that rises in UK immigration, both pre and post Brexit, are mainly down to a string of successive pro EU (i.e. hopeless) UK governments. So you are not blaming the rise in immigration in the UK on the EU but you are? * Yep. A success for people smugglers, anyway. Schengen has made doing business in Europe much easier. For the 1.8m cross-border workers in the EU their daily commute bears no comparison to what it was pre-Schengen.

If only successive Secretaries of State for Work & Pensions had employed your deep-thinking techniques the UK wouldn't have any labour market problems. What could be easier than filling vacancies than employing the retired, the infirmed and unpaid carers? A shortage of GPs in John O'Groats? No problem, we can get an unemployed roofer in Lands End to fill that role. Ignoring the fact that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't want to uproot his family and move, there is also the slight possibility that his skillset doesn't match his potential new role. According to the BMA, the UK needs 60k more health care professionals. Again, no problem. While we wait the 3 - 7 years to produce home-grown talent we can import some overseas workers on a short-term basis to fill the gap. For example, a French doctor would be a fool if he wasn't enticed by the prospect of paying up to £1751 in visa application fees, £1035 pa in health care costs, have no access to other welfare benefits and being unsure of whether his family will be allowed to join him as opposed to, say, catching a flight to Ireland, rocking at Dublin General, securing a job and then booking flights for his family to join him in Ireland. Alternatively, if this French doctor was a little more adventurous he could even try his luck in Australia, New Zealand, etc where they also make it a lot easier for him to secure employment. Yeah, it's all a no-brainer really. If only I was as deep-thinking and clever as you, I would have realised all this at the outset.

The opportunity to take advantage of EU freedom of movement was open to all. That only a minority of Brits took advantage of that opportunity is down individual choice. As I have said previously, freedom of movement helps to balance demand and supply in the labour market; any barriers to entry restrict this adjustment. Whether the increase in immigration is beneficial to a nation overall is a wider question. No doubt some earnings were repatriated by EU workers to their home countries but the local economies were also boosted by their spending. Any wage deflation caused by Eastern European workers mitigating to the UK could have easily been mitigated by the government increasing the minimum wage. The subsequent increase in immigration post-Brexit may be, in part, due to the UK leaving the bloc but that is hardly the fault of the EU. Schengen has certainly made it easier for illegal immigrants to traverse Europe but, that aside, it has been a success.

I would have thought that it would be intuitively obvious that removing barriers to entry would - other things being equal - result in an increase in the pool of available labour. Rejoining the Single Market and re-enabling freedom of movement for EU nationals would offer a solution to the labour shortages faced by the service sector for (relatively) low-skilled workers. https://www.bpb.de/themen/migration-integration/regionalprofile/english-version-country-profiles/northerneurope/541566/uk-mig Freedom of movement would partly offset the shortage of higher skilled workers e.g. doctors, engineers, etc in the short term at least, but an increase in the number of domestic workers in these professions is needed. Sadly, successive governments have been unable to find solutions to the problem. So don't rejoin the EU but, instead, admit that it was a mistake to leave the Single Market and Customs Union and rejoin them.

Already suggested a solution. Rejoin the Single Market and allow freedom of movement for EU nationals (although there is no chance of it happening in the foreseeable). I disagree. I pay tax to the South African and Spanish governments on dividends paid by companies registered in their respective countries. I don't reside in either country and I don't expect a vote in their elections. I agree Not sure what that tells you. 1993? I know that's when the EU came into existence but we'd been in the EEC since 1972. (I was actually around then but my only interest back then was football).

And what of the different hiss boo brigade in Thailand who have no intention of returning to the UK and are therefore immune to the effects of Brexit, UK immigration, etc, but insist that the drawbridge should be raised. Why should their voices be heard? Simply because of an accident of birth?

Two things to say at the outset: 1) I am only talking about legal immigration here and 2) imo most Brits are welcoming and accept immigrants However, unfortunately, there have always been a minority who have complained about immigrants, often for no better reason than they don't like the colour of their skin or their accent. This sentiment existed way before the UK joined the EU (EEC). The Irish, the Windrush generation, the Ugandan Asians are examples. Go back centuries and the Huguenots and European Jewish migrants also suffered some discrimination. Wrt the EU specifically. Imo freedom of movement was a success and contributed to a (relatively) efficient labour market. In theory, pre-Brexit an EU national could hop onto Eurostar in Brussels or Paris at 10:00 and be serving behind a bar in London, picking fruit or working in a care home at midday: Worker happy, employer happy, customer (probably) happy. Contrast that with the hoops that EU nationals have to jump through now to get a work visa for such jobs, and the red tape and cost to the UK employer. Of course, the same applied - and applies - to UK workers heading to the continent. Hopefully it won't happen, but if it ever gets to the stage where I am incapable of looking after myself the last things I'm going to worry about is the colour of the skin, accent, country of birth or religion of the person caring for me. I'll just be very grateful that they are there.

Different times. Bit before my time but, unfortunately, the anti-immigrant brigade were out in force then as well.

Another Brexit benefit. Legal immigration wasn't much of an issue when we were an EU member. Coincidence? I don't think so. Wrt the proposed policy itself. An individual who now has permanent residency will have that status removed by Reform. Nothing approaching fairness and morality to be seen there.

Yes I did misquote him but I guess the context in which that retraction was made went over your head.

Was your post meant to be a poem? It would be better if it rhymed. Here's a starter pack. I can supply more data if you like. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo Uninformed opinion Why would he want to do that? How's a trade war with the EU help the US? Then things are going to get messy for everyone including the US How so? What Brexit guys would that be? Got some names? Some of you righty guys can't seem to get your head around the fact that loving your country and wanting to be a member of the EU is not incompatible I'll decide where I'd like to live not you. (I did live in the EU for +/-15 years. Uncertainty about the future after the referendum meant that I decided to leave) Rinse and repeat: Some of you rightly guys can't seem to get your head around the fact that being a patriot and being a member of the EU are not mutually exclusive