RayC

And that makes it ok?

The easiest way to refute an accusation of racism is to tackle it head on. So when I suggest that a statement has racist undertones, show me where I am wrong and/or how the statement might be interpreted differently. Pointing out that tourists in Thailand are st to discriminatory pricing does not do that.

Absolute tosh. In this particular instance, you suggested that migrant workers in the UK should not be treated the same as native-born workers until they became permanent residents i.e. until at least 5 years had elapsed. I asked you directly if you would then withhold access to the NHS/ education for those migrant workers and their families who did not meet your threshold, and explained why I thought this could be racist/ xenophobic. You (still) have the opportunity to refute that view by addressing the questions which I posed directly, and/or pointing out flaws in my argument. You have chosen not to do so but, now instead attempt to play the 'victim' card.

I'm never usually in favour of suicide or murder but, in this instance, it would almost certainly* prove greatly beneficial. * "almost certainly" because, unfortunately, there is the slim possibility that his replacement could be worse

Adding a laughing emoji would be inappropriate but what absolute nonsense as usual. Did you read the article? Did you miss the bit about your hero Putin's seemingly casual attitude towards the death of Russian troops?

Whether Ukraine joins the EU whilst at war, at peace or not at all is irrelevant. One thing remains true: It ,in no way, helps explain - let alone justify - Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Replacing 'money' with 'land' rings true as well, don't you think?

And the reason for your conclusion? I would hazard a guess that it has something to do with it being a slap in the face for Putin.

I agree but opinion doesn't lend itself to meaningful debate. What is required is "informed opinion".

It was an opportunity to explain your position and explain to me what I had overlooked. You have a good day too.

Rather childish, Jonny.

Unfortunately, you are probably correct, given that there is no mechanism for ejecting Hungary. Maybe the other 26 EU members should form another organisation? They could also invite the UK to join.

Straw clutching. We are talking about worker's rights. The fact that an overseas tourist pays more to feed Jumbo bananas in Thailand than a local is discrimination, but is relatively unimportant. I pointed out that Australia treats (legal) migrant workers and native-born workers equally when it comes to their rights. How you can conclude that I therefore hate the UK is yet another example of your failed logic. So it's all about the absolute amount that a worker has (financially) contributed to the system? Should the individuals' entitlement to services, such as the NHS therefore be proportionate to the amount of NI/tax contributions which they have made? Where does that leave the school leaver, new graduate? Presumably, you'd withhold access to NHS services for them until they had built up a big enough pot? Ex-servicemen sleeping on the streets or OAPs freezing to death on their homes has nothing to do with illegal immigrants posting on social media, and everything to do with the failure of the authorities to safeguard those individuals. It's not race baiting, Jonny. I'll repeat what I posted previously: The government estimates that this piece of legislation will cut immigration by 300,000, of which 70,000 are 'family visas' which suggests there will be 230,000 fewer 'worker' visas. This, in turn, suggests that there will be 230,000 unfilled job vacancies (unless the need for these jobs has disappeared overnight): I can't see the economic rationale for this, so a cut in immigration must be 'good' in its' own right. My question is simply: 'Why?'. Racism/ Xenophobia is a possible explanation. In fact, I struggle to see what other explanation there can be. You have stated that you would go further than the bill proposes, "Migrant workers should not have the same benefits as UK nationals until they become UK nationals". I asked you if this meant that you would withhold access to the NHS and schooling for their kids until this threshold had been reached? (You avoid answering these questions directly). In this case, there probably would be cost savings but imo it is a morally bankrupt proposal and, again, imo smacks of racism/ xenophobia. I'd be interested to know what the other explanations might be.

There are problems in making an organisation representing 27 member states comprising 450 million people more accountable to the electorate. There will never be a perfect system. Imo the transfer of some of the responsibilities of the Commission e.g. the ability to propose legislation would be a start. I would prefer that the Commissioners or, at least, the PEC were directly elected. The problem then is a lack of knowledge of the individuals concerned. For example, very few people outside of Germany had any idea who v.d Leyden was. That said, the majority of the UK electorate couldn't tell you who their local MP was but they still vote.

'Reform of the Lords' next on the agenda? I don't suppose you have any evidence to support that claim? The only other European countries outside the ECHR are Belarus and Russia. Sometimes you can tell a lot about someone by the company that they keep.

It takes 5+ years to become a UK national. So before that happens, would you withhold access to the NHS for a migrant and his/her family? Deny the kids access to education? Etc. Fortunately, that is not how it works in the UK and I don't believe that even the most right-wing member of the Flat Earth Brigade is proposing it. Youravingalaff has already corrected you regarding the Thai system - which I would have thought you might have known given that you work here - so I'll just concentrate on correcting you re Australia. You don't say when, or what type of migrant worker, you were in Australia, but if you are migrant worker in Australia today, you enjoy the same rights as a native-born worker. The exception is if you are on one of the short-stay working visas, which are usually granted for stays of up to 3 months (and no more than 12 months). Here, the individual has to arrange his/her own medical insurance. Not the most outrageous example of discrimination imo. (It is extremely unlikely that individuals under these types of visa would want to bring their families with them so, again, not really a problem worth worrying about). If the world worked as you suggest then nothing would ever get started. I find your 'philosophy of life' outlined above sad. Of course, that is just my opinion. I have not lived in Thailand since the '90s. We live in the UK - at least for the time being - and spend European winters in Thailand. No country is perfect. I have no intention of going to live on a deserted island, so some compromise on some things is necessary. You are very open about your prejudice and discrimination towards migrants. I am curious why this is? Is it due to racism and/or xenophobia? A superiority complex (based on nationality?)? Something else?

Try removing the 783 sitting members of the House of Lords! You are obviously ignorant of the way in which the president of the European Commission (PEC) is elected, therefore I'll lay out the process so that you can refer to it in the future: The PEC serves a 5-year term. S/he is nominated by the European Council, which is the group comprising of the Heads of government of the member states (all of whom have been elected democratically). This nominee is then either endorsed or rejected by the European Parliament, whose members are directly elected by the public in the member states. It is untrue that the PEC cannot be removed as you infer. The European Parliament has this power and would have used it in 1999 if Jacques Santner had not pre-empted them and resigned. The UK had democracy when we were a member of the EU. Imo it's no coincidence that since Brexit the Tory party has, on a number of occasions, attempted to circumvent our democratic institutions. Fortunately, these attempts have been unsuccessful up to now.

You know that Brexit is a 'red rag to a bull' for me, so I'll get that out of the way quickly: Just how have things improved wrt controlling immigration since we left the EU? The UK jobs market seemed to work pretty efficiently when the free movement of EU nationals into the UK was permitted. Your original post to which I replied: " ... it seems some people feel that non British nationals are entitled to the same treatment as British nationals while in Britain." So you are in favour of treating migrant workers in the UK as effectively 2nd class residents? You would withhold NHS care, other benefits and future pension entitlements from them despite the fact that they will be paying tax and NI contributions in exactly the same way as a UK national? (I was so astonished that anyone could seriously suggest this that I had to check that migrants were not st a separate tax regime!). I imagine that you would also not permit a migrant's kids to attend school? I doubt that any G20 country discriminates against it's residents in this way; certainly no EU country does and none are bankrupt. The only thing that is bankrupt is the morality of your ideas.

Touché. My apologies. I deserved that. It was a simple, childish comment. ..... however given that you know nothing of my educational achievements, that is no more than a guess. Personally, I wouldn't be confident that a guess was correct but each to their own.

Presumably there weren't as many job vacancies then and hence less need to import labour. What does this figure of 350,000 relate to? I don't understand what point you are trying to make. The UK public cast their votes in a general election every 4 or 5 years to elect a government. The government then (broadly) determines how many migrants should be allowed into the country. Yes. Immigration usually figures fairly prominently in the various party manifestos. The attached link gives an overview of the main parties' views on immigration in the 2019 election. https://freemovement.org.uk/general-election-manifestos-2019/

Jonny, Why do you feel the need to demonstrate that you failed GCSE Logic?😉

You're correct. I'm one of them. Anything else is discrimination pure and simple. I've yet to read a convincing argument to justify any such discrimination. In general - there are exceptions - an individual needs to have been living in the UK legally for 5 years before being eligible to apply for permanent residency. Imo this length of time is about right. Someone entering the country legally has either brought something to the table or is the partner/ child of someone who has. Assuming that the individual has not committed a serious crime, and that they still meet the same conditions, which led to their visa being granted in the first place, I don't see why their application for permanent residency should be refused. Only fair and just don't you think? I agree. However, a problem arises for supporters of this change in the law. Economic migrants fill jobs that, for whatever reason, cannot be filled by the local population. Can we agree on that? One estimate suggests that this bill will reduce immigration by 300,000 per annum. I believe that that there are +/-50,000 spousal views issued each year. Let's assume that the proposed new legislation reduces that number to zero. Doesn't this mean that there will 250,000 unfilled job vacancies? This cannot be 'good' from an economic standpoint and must therefore mean that the reduction in immigration numbers is intrinsically 'good' in itself. And why is a drop in immigration numbers good in itself? I can't think of any other logical answer other than it is because the immigrant is perceived as being 'different' (inferior?). I'd call that racism (or xenophobia).

I doubt that anyone in their right mind is under the illusion that the UK is a charity. The UK already has a points-based immigration system. I don't know how closely it aligns with the Australian system. I imagine that the vast majority of Australians are thoroughly decent individuals. However, just like the UK, there are almost certainly also a number of evil, bigoted racists as well.

"Tens of thousands"!!! Was there anybody apart from illegal Indians and Philipinos working in the Australian fast-food sector at the time? On the positive side, at least, the Australian government were able to put the correct visa stamp in tens of thousands of Indian and Filipino passports.

Your misplaced arrogance and delusion that you are some sort of oracle dispatching wisdom from on high is laughable. Your inability to accept basic logical reasoning illustrates that. Initially you made the factually incorrect claim that France and Germany were in favour of NATO expansion and cited this as evidence to support your theory. You now cite the fact that France and Germany were against NATO expansion as evidence in favour of your theory. I'll be generous and call this muddled thinking. That is unsurprisingly given that you have been unable to address any of my other points up to now. No Yes. Imo it goes further than that i.e the rise of India, the increased political power of the EU as a bloc, the formation of other regional blocks. See previous paragraph. Imo the US remains the dominant force. China's economic woes are a setback to its' ambitions. Russia's influence was waning which imo is one - perhaps, "the" - reason why it invaded Ukraine. I dispute the idea that three is the magic number. No. As you can see from the above, unlike you I address questions directly. For once, you are correct. I do dispute your contention that the US induced Russia to attack Ukraine. It didn't. No. Generally speaking, I think that in common with other nations, the US acts according to what it perceives as its' own best interests. So, now that we have established all that, how does destabilizing central Europe help protect (increase?) US hegemony? In a previous post, I posed the following question to you which, unsurprisingly, remains unanswered: "What has been achieved from a US perspective (by this war)? True, NATO appears to have acquired more resolve .... and added a couple of new members (Finland and Sweden), but that can hardly be called success. Indeed, Russia is still standing and if it is victorious in this war will, arguably, be stronger politically with the US shown to be weaker. Surely, if your theory is correct, the US will want to avoid this outcome at all costs and would continue funding Ukraine?" Almost certainly the wiser thing that you have said. It's just a shame that you couldn't have adopted this position at the outset. Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! You're almost certainly correct. I feel that that we might part on a positive note. You too, honey.