Sunmaster

Just now, save the frogs said:

or maybe drugs are portal openers, but they open the portals too quickly?

but rather spiritual growth is the only way to open portals?

 

Different drugs have different effects on consciousness. I prefer psychedelics and endorse the use for therapeutic use and for self discovery. That implies a respectful and responsible use, meaning that the way you use them is not just for fun, to watch the wallpaper morphing or to feel cool at a party.

Even with psychedelics there are big differences. Some are super potent, others are more mellow. Some last for 15 hours, others for 15 minutes. 

One thing they have in common though, is that you don't get dependent on them. They are not like heroin where you can't wait to get the next fix. 

And yes, they do have the ability to open portals to your inner world that are normally closed. They swing those portals wide open, letting your consciousness connect to aspects that can be wonderful and eye-opening. But if you are not prepared to such a massive influx, it can also be very frightening.

Meditation does the same thing, but much slower, so that it is much easier to understand and integrate those changes. Also, the insights gained through meditation become permanent, while those gained through psychedelics are often temporary...or better...the insights are huge but it takes longer to integrate them.

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

This is an interesting picture when it comes to what colours do you see? Some of you might know this pictures from many years ago being discussed.

 

I see black and blue, which colours do you see? 

 

 

White and light brown.

57 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

do you actually believe that the average person is so civilized that the rates of violence would not increase by a factor of 1000 if there were no police on the streets?

 

 

 

I'm not saying that I would abolish all police. It is certainly necessary. 

However, it is also true that there is a lot of abuse of power going on, coupled with very poor training, the increasing militarization and overall tribal thinking of the whole organisation that has made the police force something very different from the "protect and serve" they ought to follow. 

And if the good cops don't speak up against the bad cops (which they rarelyndo), who can control the controlers?

30 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

the police is the only reason you're still alive

How do you even come up with statements like this? ????

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The question is, are we better off without control, regulations and law? Most countries I know, benefits from having a goverment, who take care of every aspect of peoples life for the majority best. 

 

In nature, every tribe or society have a leader, or a form of leadership, and without proper leadership the tribe or society brakes down. 

 

Throughout our modern civilation it have been several empires who have risen because people saw the benefits, but also broken down because lack of it, the same will happen to our empire now, and be replaced by a new one sooner or later. 

 

We need structure, we need to sugar coating our lives, and we need to believe in the greater for best of all mankind, at least our own tribe, and our own tribe needs to be part of a stronger union for good and bad.

 

What else is it for human kind?

 

Thats how Nature is, and we are part of the nature on same premises even you do not like it.

 

We are animals who is on top of the food chain for now. There is no holy grail, it is just a myth, so we can keep on looking, and keep us occupied.

 

As quick we understand we living in It, the better, and we can start cultivating this planet in a better way, and accept this is our home for now, before we all going back to where we came from. 

 

But as useal, peoples interests is bread and circus, and with nothing else on mind to finish work and enjoy life the way THEY tell them to do. 

 

Most people I know, a beer is a good start for enjoying life, or any other recreational drug, sugar included.

 

If we could stay off the drugs, eat more clean, drink clean, clean substances in form of thoughts and conversations, we would, or could have been better humans. Do that involve religion or spirituality? Im not so sure, it is on level with short fix or long fix, that consumes alot of energy, and also occupies our minds to the extend, so we get useless human beings for the real purposes we truly are.

 

Go out in the nature and observe absorb, learn and collect, and you will have your everlasting freedom. 

 

I need to look back on this post later. 

 

Common for most humans, we need leaders who tells us what to do to, and manage a structure so most felling oart of something. Very few manage themselves, and can survive without. Even those who claim there is no god! 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are the voice of reason. I agree.

I come from a place that is very similar to your wonderful pictures and you have no idea how much I miss hiking alone through the forests, whenever I feel like it.

This contact with wild nature is something I never really felt here in Thailand. 

I need to create it with Tippaporn's technique. 

It's a big topic, but ultimately I think that nobody has the right to tell another person whether they can or can not ingest something to alterate their consciousness, as long as they don't harm others. 
People ingest coffee, tea, sugar to modify their consciousness. A lot of people ingest media propaganda, which changes their consciousness as well, and we all know how fast that can degenerate (see post 9/11 frenzy with consequent illegitimate war based on lies). So it's laughable that a government would penalize someone for smoking a joint, where the worst that can happen is having a laugh with friends and getting the munchies.

The same goes for euthanasia. I don't accept that a government can have the right to decide how I should die. Religious institutions should not interfere in these issues, but sadly do.

For these and other reasons, I will always distrust and resist so-called "authorities". They are a bunch of unconscious robots voted in by masses of unconscious robots. The police are even worse: unconscious, tyrannical and power-tripping robots. 


 

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Taiji or tai chi (simplified Chinese: 太极; traditional Chinese: 太極; pinyin: tàijí; lit. 'great pole') is a Chinese cosmological term for the "Supreme Ultimate" state of undifferentiated absolute and infinite potential, the oneness before duality, from which yin and yang originate. It can be compared with the old wuji (無極, "without pole"). In the cosmology pertaining to yin and yang, the material energy which this universe was created from is known as qi. It is believed that the organization of qi in this cosmology of yin and yang has formed many things.^[5] Included among these forms are humans.

How does this get me a job?  Or a lover? 

 

I outright reject the notion that yin and yang formed humans, though.

Yes, this makes sense to me. Not sure how that would help you with a job or lover though. ????

Why would you reject the idea that everything in existence is a product of an interaction between two polarities? Do you think that conflicts with Seth's teachings? 

Maybe you remember what I said about my experience with the kundalini energy. I always used this metaphor: Normal, day-to-day consciousness is like walking in total darkness, with only the help of a small candle to light up the path before you. The light is just enough to illuminate a few steps in front of you. The experience of the Kundalini, or in other words, the expanded consciousness, was like a light switch was turned on. The light of a million suns illuminated everything and showed me a 360deg landscape as far as they eye could see. 
To use the puzzle analogy, it was like I was shown what the final puzzle looks like once finished. Even though it was a temporary thing, it still made it a lot easier afterwards to choose the right pieces and made it easier to put them together correctly. It also allowed me to understand difficult philosophical and spiritual concepts that would have been too cryptic for me before. 
Shortly after I remember discovering the amazing books of Ken Wilber, who tried to formulate a theory of everything. I was completely fascinated and wanted to share my discovery with my friends. They all returned the books after a couple of days. Not one of them could follow what Wilber was saying.
This may all sound very self aggrandizing, but it's the truth. I can't tell it differently.

The practical way to use Seth's teachings you mention is a very good one. I used and still use it as well. ????

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

ID first, please. 

43 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Now that's a very astute observation, Sunmaster.  Especially the part where, unlike a puzzle picture which has the completed picture on the box cover, we don't have a completed picture to follow.  Or really any picture.  A most excellent point!

Hey, that just adds to the challenge, right? 

Where is my drink?!? ????

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

As best of an analogy I could think of it is very much like a picture puzzle. 

Great analogy. 
The only difference is that when we usually start an actual puzzle, we are given a complete picture to follow, which makes it a lot easier and faster. In real life, we are given the pieces, but very rarely are we allowed to see what it should look like once finished. Furthermore, we don't get all the pieces at once. Most of the times, new pieces will only materialize once a section has been completed first.

31 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

it seems like you and i are trapped in an infinite loop, like hamsters on a wheel.

you give me quotes that mean nothing to me. 

and then we go round and round. 

and still ... i am dazed and confused.

That's what I mean when I say that imparting knowledge from the "top down" doesn't really work. A teacher (or just someone who has more knowledge about a specific subject) has to identify the level of the student (or anyone who doesn't have that specific knowledge yet) and guide him from that level onwards, feeding him bites that he can actually swallow.
What good will it do to teach quantum entanglement to a first year university student? 
 

@Tippaporn

A while back I asked you to give some practical examples of the Seth teachings. Things we can use right now to make our lives better. Things that won't leave us dazed and confused. ????
Got any succulent bites?

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Stupid question but what is duality?  I've heard the term many times but for some reason it seemed off-putting to me and I never bothered to investigate it's meaning.  I understand duality only in terms of our existence to mean opposites.  Male female, up down, left right, in out, right wrong, good evil, etc.  All being the flip side of the same coin.  I can't recall that don Juan talked about duality but I think he did.  You should be able to confirm, I think.  But in all of the other material I've read, which is more than just Seth, I've never heard the phrase used.  Perhaps that's why I find it off-putting?  Since I don't know what it really refers to I can't say whether I believe in the existence of such a concept.

I tend to go with Seth's statement below:

In the most basic sense, the purpose of life is being - as opposed to not being.

Duality....all that which comes from the non-dual, everything you can sense with your outer and inner senses. On one hand the non-dual is beyond the dual, but at the same time it is the very ground from which the dual arises.
The symbol of the TAO depicts exactly that. The duality is movement, change, opposites, no end, no beginning, the cosmic dance. Both form a circle, which represents non-duality. 

 
Maybe Seth meant that purpose can be found in the world of being (creation/becoming/transformation/action/duality), and that it can not be found in "not being" (non-duality). 
If that's the case, I guess I agree with him. ????

 

42 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Everything has meaning and everything has purpose and there is none of it which is better or worse than the other.  And all of it is ultimately us anyway. To consider any of it as absurd is, in my mind, to then consider a portion of ourselves as absurd.  Which is absurd to me. 

Exactly....everything has a purpose. Everything you can name, imagine or dream of has a purpose. But what about what is beyond that? That which has no form, no time, no space, that which is beyond all comprehension. This is what I'm referring to when I say no purpose. 
We like to assume that our system (our world/the material) has a purpose, but then we automatically deduce that a bigger system which includes our smaller system, must also have purpose. This is debatable however. 

What I'm saying is: purpose is a product of duality and the never ending action of the yin/yang. The Tao incorporates the yin/yang, but is itself immovable and has no purpose. 

57 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

One of the reasons I've never delved into eastern religions is due to their idea that this worldly existence is somehow subpar, perhaps due to the pain which exists here, and something to suffer through (the irony) until we can finally find something called enlightenment in which suffer comes to an end, and in which we blend into oneness and, God forbid, lose our identity.  No thanks.

Yes, this idea is possible. But then it's the students interpretation that is faulty, not the teaching. Besides, the same happens in most other religions. 

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

"In your state of development you cannot easily understand the meaning of the word “purpose,” for to you the term itself implies an eventual rigidity, a goal with an end, a progression, literally, toward a nothingness that it would have to follow once a goal in those terms was achieved."

Isn't this what I said?

A goal with an end = time; progression = change/action = duality

towards a nothingness = non-duality

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

In other words, we're not trying to attain some state that, at worst, is a finished state.  As Seth has remarked on Heaven, it is an impossible state of existence and if there were such a thing as true death Heaven would be it.  For it represents a finished state in which there can be no more growth.  Yet growth is never ending.  It's eternal.  Whether that growth is in one direction or another to me all directions which growth takes are equal in their value and importance.

In our terms that translates to, say, the decision of a youth as to what he wants to become when he finishes school.  A doctor, lawyer, chimney sweeper . . . all represent growth and none is better or worse than the other.  All provide avenues for fulfillment.  (Although our cultural world would certainly make clear distinctions of better and worse based on remuneration.  )

Yes, I agree. When you speak about growth, you speak about duality....the yin and the yang. To the TAO, speaking of growth is meaningless. The TAO simply IS.

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

If I interpret it in the context of the 3rd statement then it reads to me that we are not meant to come into this world with full awareness.  Then I would agree.  For there are no doubt a number of very practical considerations which account for our unawareness of the rest of us, our reincarnational selves, and our probable selves and other selves.  Full awareness would make it impossible to have the type of experience we intended.

Yes, of course I meant it this way. 

Are you trying to give me a hard time today? ????

35 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Granted, this question is specifically in regards to purpose as it relates to this existence.  Whereas in Sunmaster's reply to save the frogs he may have been referring to the lack of purpose as it relates to existence as a whole.  Not sure but maybe you could clarify what exactly you were referring to with the words, "it all."  Does "it all" mean existence itself or simply physical existence?

When I say "There is no purpose behind it all." I refer to the highest perspective I'm able to imagine. That non-dual Ground of all Being which is pure being-ness. My intuition tells me there is no purpose there, just IS-ness.
Once that non-dual Being-ness splits into duality, everything else is created, including purpose. 
That's why I added that the ultimate lack of purpose in non-duality doesn't preclude that we can give our lives meaning and purpose. As I see it, the purpose of our existence is to "know thyself", gather all necessary pieces of the puzzle, choose the path with a heart, return to the Source.....only to realize that there was no purpose to start with.

Like many masters told us, we strive to become enlightened, we meditate, we read books, we do this and that, but at the moment of enlightenment the masters realize the absurdity of it all. We are already that which we are seeking. There is nothing we can do to make it happen. 

It's a paradox and it's still blurry in my mind, but like I said...my intuition is telling me this and I think I'm unto something.

 

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

then god must be really really really old. 

Something that is not bound by time is neither old nor young. It always was and will always be, because it just IS.

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Well to be honest, we talking about belief and personal faith as well conviction, where many had similar experiences, but still, no belief system manage to unifie people, instead it kind of diverts people in to groups and tribes. 

 

Stephen Fry attack orginized political abusive religion for most, and I understand his view of point, as well so many claim they have the truth, the rest go to hell, suffer for many lives, or are just stupid for not seeing the same as them, and it becomes mental. 

 

How people experience true situations in life, can be experienced different as many observer's there are, and that is the weakness of humans, we have difficulty with observing the true realm of reality as it happens. I know Seth theory comes up in back of mind as I write, but nevertheless I have my faith in nature as it happens here and now.

 

Cave diving is quite technicall, and also requires alot of experience as well being there in realtime as it happens. Can not compare something physically as cave diving to faith or belief systems. Simple as that.

 

We are living in heaven, just sad, not so many understand that, but thats nature

Yes, Stephen Fry mainly attacks organized religion. I, like you, can understand where he comes from. The problem is that a lot of people take that to mean that there is no validity in any subjective spiritual experience, which is something completely different from religious dogma. It is just thrown in in the same bag.

The cave diving is just an analogy, but as flawed as it seems, there are still many similarities that work well in explaining the attitude of some towards spiritual issues. 
You say experiences vary and are as diverse as there are observers. This is true in a way. It is also true that those diverse experiences (of the inner world) follow certain paths and organize themselves in certain structures or frameworks. That's why it is possible to speak of a Yogic Path or teacher-student relationship in the first place. 

The experiences one accumulates when practicing meditation are not random and chaotic, but show challenges and turning points that are common to all practitioners. This is where the teacher comes in and is able to advise the student. Without this framework, there would be no teaching, no learning. It would just be pure randomness and all we could do is hope for the best. 
 

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

To me, it seems no matter what, most behave as you describe, as everyone else is stupid for not seeing the same as themselves, and at same time feel superior to others. 

 

What do you think about that?  

Do you remember the Thai kids trapped in the cave? There was an English cave diver who had decades of experience in diving in enclosed spaces. He knew what he was talking about when he gave his opinion on the danger of the expedition. He had the knowledge and the willingness to explain the situations to those who didn't have his knowledge and experience. 
Then comes Mr Musk, who knows absolutely nothing about cave diving, but who thinks he has the right answers to the problem at hand. When the cave diver pointed out that Musk's solution was completely useless, Musk proceeded to call him a pedo.

As you probably know, this is a true story, but it is also a great analogy of the behaviour of a lot of people when it comes to religion, spirituality and states of consciousness.

How often has Stephen Fry been taken as an authority figure to discredit religion and spirituality? How often has Richard Dawkins been hailed as the voice of reason regarding spirituality? Both of them are just like Musk, in that they don't know the first thing about exploring consciousness. Yet, people will listen to them, thinking they must know since they are famous intellectuals.

But when someone points out that not all opinions are equal (based on direct experiences and knowledge gained thereof), they are quickly labeled as "superior", "know-it-all", "guru", "arrogant" and so on and so forth. 

Should the cave diver have acted differently? Should he have sucked up to Musk and tell him how brilliant his idea was? Maybe stroke his ego a little?
Does experience and knowledge of a given subject not count for anything anymore? Are all opinions equal and equally valuable?

Another fallacy is the argument that since nobody can know about "God" or provide proof of a "higher realm", therefore all opinions are equal. It's interesting that this argument only comes from those who have never even tried to practice meditation or introspection. Because those who actually do practice, know that "knowing thyself is knowing God". 

So, this is what it all comes down to. The naysayers claim that no-one has the capability to know God by knowing themselves. After all, if they can't do it, it must mean that nobody else can.....right? And how dare those arrogant wackos say that they can? They must be out of their minds! They must be smoking some good sh!t! They must be naïve, delusional individuals. 

That being said, I think that those people who do have more experience and knowledge must also try to be patient and compassionate with those who don't. 
If you have a rebellious teenage son (or daughter) who thinks he knows everything better, you as the parent will not try to ridicule and belittle him. You, as the older, wiser, more experienced person, will do your best to direct your son, and you do that out of love for him.
This is the responsibility we as believers and practitioners have towards those who are still unconscious. Not an easy task for sure, but it's an ideal we have to live up to if we take the path seriously and if we want to be taken seriously.


 

This thread has become a bad episode of the Twilight Zone.

"What if God is really a macrocosmic virus, slowly infecting lifeforms across the universe?"
"Yeah, sounds plausible. Somehow I always suspected that."
"I think he came through an interdimensional portal because he was expelled from his own dimension."
"Right on. That would mean he is some sort of Satan!"
"Right!"

????

17 minutes ago, Taboo2 said:

Based on current calculations, God is 38 billion years old....and I could be wrong based on the latest input from James Webb Telescope....so, WTF is he doing?  Playing video games or reviewing everyone who died's life history before sending us to hell?

 

I believe you mean the universe is 38 billion years old, not God. 

20 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps your best contribution thus far, save the frogs.  I hadn't heard that wonderful tune before.  Mick seems to be struggling for understanding.  He ain't alone.

Human suffering . . . why do we experience it?  For surely if God existed he would never have allowed it.  And since it is allowed and if God does exist then he is either twisted or has created a faulty universe.  So goes the rationale and the conclusions drawn that are often expressed here.

Why is suffering allowed and why do we experience it?  If there's a reason and purpose for everything then must there be a good reason and purpose for suffering as well?  Before I offer my two cents I'll sit back whilst pleasantly enjoying my morning coffee untroubled and observe what answers others come up with. 

5am, rise and shine Tippaporn! 

I'll have a go. I think suffering is a consequence of being out of tune with the cosmic harmony and the illusion of being a separated, limited entity.

Need to be short...coffee is getting cold.

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Isn't this a future scenario where we find an promising Exo planet, and infest it with life from our planet? If we survive that long, and reach the capability to do so. 

Interesting choice of words "infest it". ????

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

come on. i never said or implied that you are evil.

i just challenged some of your opinions. 

you're a thoughtful intelligent person, which is a pretty good quality in this day and age. 

doesn't mean i agree with everything you say though. 

Nice.

22 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I noticed you are not very welcoming to people expressing opinions that differ from yours.

To be fair, I have a long list of character flaws as well. 

 

Yes, you notice a lot of things. Like determining that Paramhansa Yogananda is a power-hungry evil guru, after reading 2 or 3 quotes. Or that I am an evil guru myself. ????

So you must be correct. ????????