FarFlungFalang

1 hour ago, Scott said:

Hunger and malnutrition can be stopped.  It isn't because the international will does not exist to eliminate it. There has never been a concerted effort to end hunger.   The country with the highest death toll is the US and hunger is not a particularly big problem.  Your comparison is a deflection and an attempt to minimize the seriousness of Covid.  Hunger, on the other hand, has been with us since the beginning of recorded history.  

 

Even with a hit-and-miss approach by a few countries, world hunger has, indeed decreased:

After steadily declining for a decade, world hunger is on the rise, affecting 9.9 percent of people globally. ... The proportion of undernourished people in the world has declined from 15 percent in 2000-2004 to 8.9 percent in 2019.

 

https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/world-hunger-facts-statistics

 

Covid can be addressed, but it requires the cooperation of all involved and that hasn't been forthcoming, primarily for political reasons.   You dismiss the quarantine requirements as a primary cause, but without those the spread would have been exacerbated.  This is especially true with the original up through Delta.  Omicron appears to be more transmissible, but the period of asymptomatic spread appears to be less.   Again, it is a deflection and placing the blame on a legitimate and verified method of slowing the spread.  

 

The odds of stopping the virus are extraordinarily low.  Early on there was a possibility, but again, most attempts were undermined.  Any attempt at anything other than mitigating and controlling the spread is the most we can achieve, IMO.  

 

We are most likely a very, very long ways from any semblance of normal.  Pretty much every pandemic ended with a new 'normal', not the return to the old normal.  

 

 

 

I agree that theoretically it's possible to stop both but in practice it has proven to be beyond our capabilities and I'm not advocating that we give up trying.In my view vaccines are great and so is a previous infection which basically what a vaccine is, it's a type of previous infection that provides protection from the disease.

You say that my raising hunger is a deflection in an attempt to minimise the severity of covid yet I say it is an attempt to put it in perspective with other problems by comparing it with other global issues that are more devastating health impacts that receive less media attention.You state it's a deflection, you don't say it's your opinion but you state it as a fact without an argument to support your claim.You also say  that on the other hand hunger has been around since the beginning of recorded history, well I suspect that people have been having issues with viruses during the same period and I would hazard a guess that deaths from hunger and hunger related diseases has been causing more death during that time. 

Some countries have already returned to normal and despite you claim that we are a long ways from normal it only take a few words from our leaders to return us to normal, some may struggle with the idea of returning to normal but I think most people will get used to it pretty quickly.Image being normal again.Imagine embracing life with all it's risks and enjoying it as much as possible instead of cowering in fear and blaming others for one's misery.

2 hours ago, Scott said:

I am not sure what hunger has to do with this other than as a deflection.   Covid is a serious disease and has had a major impact on nearly every corner of the world.   To a large extend, both hunger and Covid can be addressed, one with food and the other with vaccines, masking and social distancing.   

 

I highly doubt it would be effective to actively segregate all people who aren't vaccinated.  That is especially true as the virus changes and evolves into something that is at least somewhat milder.  However, I find it interesting that those who are adamant about not being vaccinated and not wearing a mask want everything to return to normal, when it won't as long as we have to fight the virus, put up with onerous employee absences due to illness and all the other things that negatively affect our safety, health and economic well being.  

 

 

 

 

 

When people are suffering from malnutrition their defences against disease is severely reduced making them more vulnerable so it has a lot to do with this and it's interesting that you view it as merely a deflection.Hunger mainly occurs in the poorer nations of the world and so they are more vulnerable to covid in my view.You say hunger can be addressed yet the worlds best efforts have failed to do so, so at this point in time it seems that it can't be addressed otherwise it would have been.The same applies to covid you say it can be addressed but it appears to me that it can't be addressed otherwise it would surely would have been addressed.At this time after the worlds best efforts to vaccinate as many people as possible deaths and hospitalisation are at their highest of the pandemic in some countries.(see link below)

It's not only those who choose not to be vaccinated that want to return to normal as many people who were vaccinated with the promise of a return to normal are asking to return to normal.

A lot of the onerous employee absenteeism is from the onerous quarantine requirement of close contacts and asymptomatic people which is causing disruption and are being systematically scaled back.

With the virus being airborne and floating down corridors of quarantine hotels infecting the previous negatively test occupants the mask and social distancing doesn't seem to have stopped the virus spreading just as many experts had predicted they said you might slow it down but you won't stop it.

You can continue to live in the belief that the virus can be stopped but I think I'll listen to what the health experts said which is the virus can't be stopped and it seems to me that they have been correct as the virus has continued to spread despite people's best efforts.

https://ourworldindata.org/vaccination-israel-impact

15 minutes ago, dj230 said:

You don't have to get vaccinated but restrictions are fair for those who choose not to.

What studies show the effectiveness of segregating unvaccinated especially those who have a previous infection and have better protection than vaccinated people with no prior infections?I haven't seen any and if there are none on what grounds do they implement the restrictions?Logic?Guesses perhaps?Or do people just feel safer because they still don't feel safe even when triple jabbed?Are there any vaccines against paranoia?If you are so fearful of the world then don't go out in it but don't try and shut me out of it because of your fear.Based on average deaths by hunger and hunger related illnesses 18 million have died of these causes during this pandemic which is worse than the 6 million covid because 6 million of these are children and there's alway been a cure for this which is as simple as feeding these people.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was citing a study on the Spanish flu which is what you brought up,

 

Absolutely nothing to do with present day flu, perhaps you missed this which is more up to date:

 

Covid used to be more than 20x more deadly than the flu but thanks to vaccinations + boosters and the lesser virulent Omicron its now just under twice as deadly, at least thats for the UK. More evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines.

 

 

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1492138139103768576

 

 

Covid used to be 20 deadlier than the flu just depends upon when you are comparing the 2.If you stipulate what periods then that's ok but when people say covid is worse than or more deadly than the flu well then that's really pretty useless because I've been told on numerous occasions I can't compare the two.They used to call corona viruses the common cold now they made up a new word for it and call it covid which share the same symptoms but this time it's particularly virulent just like the flu was particularly virulent in the Spanish flu pandemic which you say happened a long time ago but there are people who were born in that time who are still alive today so not really that long ago. Looking at your graph it seems to suggest covid and the flu are going to be the same again ad we can go back to the old normal because this new normal sucks with knobs on it.When people who have had the virus and have better protection than a vaccinated person with no previous infection get segregated from certain aspects of society has no basis in science.Yet people with better immune protection than some vaccinated people have to live with them?People spout how wonderfully the vaccines work yet still insist on segregating people with even better protection.Do vaccines work or not?Why don't vaccinated people feel safe?I really can't understand this concept at all.

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

No where did I say that? Better re read my post and also the one before it.

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

In a study CFR for the Spanish flu and Covid-19 was the same in the UK

That's where you said the Spanish flu and covid 19 was the same.It's right there in black and white (maybe in black and light blue depending on which version you look at) with your name on it.

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not sure how relevant that is so long ago. Although I bet they wish they had effective vaccines for that particular flu strain, would have cut the deaths by 90% or more if they were as effective as the covid-19 vaccines. Instead all they had to rely on was widespread mask wearing, closing schools, churches and public gatherings to help flatten the curve.

 

In a study CFR for the Spanish flu and Covid-19 was the same in the UK

 

Comparing COVID-19 and the 1918–19 influenza pandemics in the United Kingdom pdf download

So now you're saying that covid is just like the flu?I remember being blasted for saying the same thing 2 years ago, it's good to see that people are starting to see the light!The relevance of the link was to my statement that the flu "has been" more deadly than covid.Sure there are more advanced medical responses now but that doesn't change the fact that the flu has been more deadly than covid has been.As for the "now time frame" suggested by another poster then we have to take into account that it's mostly the Omicron variant which is reducing the overall IFR numbers as well the current IFR which is greatly reduced to being similar to the flu. 

7 minutes ago, pikao said:

This thread has developed a strong prayer wheel dynamic

Well they both have lots of spin involved.

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Wrong. 

 

"The publication reports approximately 600 deaths attributed to influenza during the 2020-2021 flu season in the United States, which typically peaks between December and February. Compared to previous years, where the numbers in the 2019-2020 season saw roughly 22,000 deaths, and the 2018-2019 season had more at 34,000 deaths, 600 is a 97 percent drop."https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/flu-deaths-dropped-97-percent-161139181.html

 

345,000 died of Covid in the US in 2020.  More died in 2021.  So Covid is at least 10 times deadlier than the flu.

 

 

Here's some info on how deadly the flu has been.In 1918-1920 the estimated deaths from the flu was 1.2% of the global population compared with covid of 0.0725% deaths of the global population.It's estimated that 50 million (possibly 100 million) deaths from the flu in a 2 year period in a population of 1.8 billion people compared to 5.8 million deaths from covid in a population of 7.9 billion people.Not only was it more deadly it seems to have been more contagious.

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The flu is nothing like as deadly or contagious as covid. Scientific studies have proven that vaccinations reduce infection and transmission. It is therefore logically IMPOSSIBLE that segregation of the unvaccinated will not reduce transmission.

The flu has been far more deadly than covid.Put them side by side and see how many have died from each in the past.As has been seen with the corona virus it's quite possible that a new flu variant may emerge and repeat previous events.History is riddled with severe flu pandemics. 

Just now, ozimoron said:

It's a logical conclusion from the evidence that unvaccinated people are more likely to contract and transmit the virus.

What scientific studies show that segregating people based on vaccination works?Are we going to start segregating people who aren't vaccinated for other deadly viruses like the flu or rabies etc.

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

i actually wonder  " god,  are we going to have to live with all these vaccinated people for the rest of our lives " .

 

which booster is it now?   to be "fully vaccinated" .     and remind me, do they prevent people from getting and transmitting this covid 19 thing?     seems like some famous people are on record saying it does

In Australia they have ditched the term "fully vaccinated" and now use the term "up to date with vaccination".So if you are not "up to date with vaccination" you can be "segregated".Yet it seems they do this segregation without scientific studies to show that it's effective in regards to this virus.It seems to me they are making stuff up because they believe it's true.Where are the scientific studies that show segregating unvaccinated people actually works?

Segregation was tried in South Africa it was tried in America, they tried it in Australia the Germans tried it now it's reared it's ugly head again in the form of segregating unvaccinated people.I haven't seen any studies that show that segregating unvaccinated people (wether they've been previously infected or not) has any beneficial outcomes.What studies show that medical segregation works that are being used by Governments to justify using segregation based on vaccination?Where is the science on segregation? 

1 hour ago, illiterate said:

You don’t get to just make stuff up because you want it to be true 

There is evidence that supports this theory that one can indeed make make stuff up because you want it to be true.Not only is it possible it is quite common. 

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Does this include the migrant workers.......wait what am I saying of course it does not......

I just told 2 employers of local labor the new minimum wage and they just laughed.

I might put some seeds (if I can get my hands on some) in the ground and if they grow themselves then I won't be growing them, then after 120 days I can take over the growing part as well as the harvesting part.Then I might just imbibe rather than smoke them.Many older women around hear put it in there cooking so the demographic might be larger than people think and they don't do it for the taste I'm told.

On 2/9/2022 at 8:12 PM, Pouatchee said:

On a side note... they stated today that they would designate areas where people would be allowed to consume for recreational purposes... Doesn't that imply that they will no longer be doing <deleted> tests for detecting drugs?

Will that be the Toke and Grow scheme?

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sweden has 80% of its population age 50 and above TRIPLE vaxed mostly with mRNA COVID vaccines.

 

Thailand only has 62% of its population age 60 and older DOUBLE vaxed, and a lot of those with one or more marginaly effective Sinovac shots.]  And only 20-some percent of its total population that have received third booster shots thus far.

 

The two countries aren't even remotely in the same situation COVID-risk wise.

 

 

As Bkk Brian has noted Thailand never really did mass testing anyway so not much point in counting, just treat the sick instead of counting those that are not sick.Time to move on.

4 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Thailand did extremely well to " control " the rise of Omicron during their High Season for Tourists.

Now the high season has all but finished, the " control " seems to have slipped and we are seeing some relatively large increases in the Infection numbers. However, the rate of  increases are still very small compared to what other Nations around the Globe have reported

It was interesting to note that of 434 Infections on Phuket, there were 192 Foreigners among them, which is close to 50 % of the cases

This seems very high compared in relation to the population of Phuket at around 300,000

 

Thailands testing numbers have plummeted recently.

Time to stop all this mass testing and follow Sweden back to the old normal

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/sweden-stops-mass-covid-19-testing/100820856

4 hours ago, webfact said:

I am sure many retirees will think twice before settling here in the future as visa and insurance regulations are making it harder to make ends meet.

Who are you?More and more of these anonymous opinion pieces popping up in the news section to generate discussions on popular topics.Is this an AI generated piece?

3 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

. oh ! just read clause 2 ...optimism fading

Not sure I would put too much faith in the english translation which doesn't seem to make much sense like the Feb 1982 date the document was signed.

36 minutes ago, CraigInBangkok said:

Can we finally get our cannabis cup competiton underway ?! (still confused by the actual law) ... There are a few good seed banks that deliver worldwide, off the top of my head, I think msnl and gorilla seeds are 2 of them ????

I've been seriously considering the seed bank option but decided to wait a bit and do a test run with some local varieties and sort out the bug situation which ring barked two of the three plants I tried growing last year the third didn't survive transplanting.I might have to go the indoors method for any seed bank attempts.I'm sure the cannabis cup will come and I'm looking forward to participating once the new laws are accepted and clarified.

23 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

Things finally seem to be moving forward as far as i can see ... If there is no prison time for a personal crop, I could live with that.

Now would be a good time of year to starts.I'm looking for some viable seeds.I had a couple going last season but they got killed by bugs.

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Here we go... medicinal use only they said...  and now?

Quality tourists out smack-heads in?

 

Nothing like a few snow cones in the morning.Not too much though or it's a rush to the dunny for a spew.

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

They are not scientific experts. They are not virologists or epidemilogists. Even if you believe that economists are scientists, being a scientist in one field does not mean you have the knowledge to work in another field. . As critics of their findings pointed out, if they had a little more knowledge of the science, they couldn't have come to the conclusions they drew.

For one thing, as one scientist and critic pointed out, they didn't include those places where the virus never got a foothold. Places where strict lockdown measures were imposed from the start. That was left out of their analysis. Hasta la Vista, Australia! Goodbye New Zealand!  Instead, they looked at places where the viral threat grew and was met with lockdowns. But according to their analysis, that showed that lockdowns didn't work since rates kept rising for a while followed by deaths.  If they were epidemiologists or virologists they would have understood that lag time has to be accounted for. Basically they created a big statistical artefact and called it research.

They are experts and have done a scientific study of some data so they are scientific experts.You seem to think this study is trying to prove that lockdowns don't work or that I'm using this study to say lockdowns don't work, to me the study is trying to show the lockdowns that they studied and how they fared.It's a cost benefit analysis of what happened in the places they studied.If you think the economic ramifications of lockdowns should not enter the debate then I suggest you consider that the 26 million people that died of hunger and hunger related diseases over the past 2 years (based on the yearly average) mostly died in countries with poor economic performance.Good economic performance is what we strive for daily so we can benefit from good education to produce excellent scientific experts to better protect our health and well being.You can right this study off as a statistical artefact but then you maybe accused of "not listening to the experts".