redwood1

2 minutes ago, Anthony mellows said:

For God's sake please somebody start a new thread on this topic.

Nope....This thread is like a bad marriage.....We have to much invested to leave...

33 minutes ago, englishoak said:

Not surprised, Gov would be better issuing it only against credit card debt then 100% of Thais would probably be up for it... 

 

Its not 10k bht, its not money... its digital tokens nothing more... Ask any Thai if they would like a 10k coupon for use in select places/distance  or 7k hard cash in the hand and see what the answer is. 

 

This is a test based around the 15 minute city corralling people  idea & a future CBDC roll-out to dispense with cash entirely.. every credit & transaction can then be tracked, taxed and easily monitored, where & how used  can be  controlled and restricted as required...eg localised spending restrictions no problem, use by dates no problem, diminishing value to encourage spending ? no problem. Sorry your  quota for meat has topped out this week, no purchase allowed but you can still buy 7/11 stuff or veggies or mama etc. That 2nd weekend break in Phuket this month your carbon credit allowance is topped out, its ok though the ticket will have an uplift cost of X  and so will the coach option or car hire purchase unless electric, carbon  uplift charge added at point of charging transaction ( for your own good & save the planet of course, big brothers got your back  )  ...  CBDC can even have an end date to force spending on what or where and encoded with restrictions/caveats  in almost any way  deemed appropriate......   Sok though Thai Gov knows best...fancy some of that ? nope me either... Personally i'm with the 34.66%.

 

Only thing embellished is the mama part, the rest is all real & easily coded options/ abilities of  CBDC or any other digital token scheme to replace cash, 

 

Don't believe me ? Do some research . WEF site & their talks online is a good start...  in their own words.

This is a pretty good overview of where they would like things to go......Nothing wrong with digital money as long as cash still works.....With no cash we are all living in a potential world wide prison...

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

The obligation to understand and comply with the laws of the country you live in rests with the individual, nobody is going to come round to your house and tell you personally that you must do this or that, you are supposed to know, just as you are supposed to know in any country, Thailand is not unique in this respect.

 

The Revenue Department tax rules have existed for decades and have largely been unchanged, the fact that both the Revenue and many foreigners (not all) have chosen to ignore them or soft pedal, is not really relevant, those laws always existed. Last year, the Revenue said they were going to tighten compliance and the rules and the media has been letting everyone know, in no uncertain terms, that they are now required to comply with the tax rules and that they will no longer be ignored. If you or anyone else choses to continue to ignore those rules, that is your choice, just be aware that the excuse of, "I didn't know" has been used up!

 

I presume from what you have written that you have never filed a tax return because nobody queues up with boxes of statements etc. Tax filing is done on the basis of the honor system, you declare your income and calculate your liability, that is either accepted or not. If it is not, that's when the boxes of statements come in but frankly, that's going to be one in a hundred or more hence there's no need to recruit and train up lots of staff, especially since tax returns are filed online anyway.

 

I am tempted at this juncture to mention what happens to people who don't pay taxes that they owe in Thailand or the strong possibility that tax filings will be linked to other aspects of expat lives here but somebody, probably you, will tell me it's all scare mongering so I wont even mention those things. I can tell already that you are a hair shirt kind of guy who simple tells every one to bring it on because you're not going to be so stupid as to pay tax. That's fine, that's your choice and I wish you good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

I will eat crow the day the Russians, the Indians, the Chinese, Cambodians etc ...Start lining up to pay taxes....Any tax.....

Its just not going to happen....

The only people who seem to have to slightest interest in this tax are a few posters on this forum......Even the post count in this thread is way way down from the early days..

31 minutes ago, Hokeus said:

All this talk about strains keeping you awake, putting you to sleep, or making you relaxed, happy, euphoric, creative, feeling uplifted, etc has always struck me as just marketing techniques to get consumers to feel more engaged to buy more and to buy various different strains. 

 

And if you read a lot about Indica and Sativa, the only real scientific difference between the two types of plants is the physical height. They are just height classifications with no scientific evidence that they have a different psycho active effect. 

 

Same goes for all the different ways different strains are supposed to make you feel. That's actually supposed to be based on subconscious reactions to the terpenes and not the cannabinoids themselves, and again there is no scientific evidence to support that different strains can have different psychoactive effects. THC is just THC. It's the amount that's the main controlling factor. 

 

Over the last 2.5 months I did a lot of personal experimentation with around 20 different Grade-A strains. The only significant difference I noticed between any of them is that some made me more high and others made me less high. At times the "Indica" ones that were supposed to make me more relaxed or sleepy made me more awake and uplifted and other times I felt more relaxed and sleepier using the same strains. I have come to the conclusion that the difference is really based on your own mood and energy levels at the time when you are about to consume it. 

 

I even made some different blends using 5 different strains in each blend. One blend intended to make me more sleepy and the other intended to make me more uplifted based on the "type" of the strains. Again, the results varied each time I smoked each of them. At one point I got the two different blends mixed up so I was eventually forced to do a blind test and couldn't notice any difference between any of the psychoactive effects. 

 

Eventually I mixed all 10 strains together and my conclusion again was that it simply made me "high". Some days sleepier and some days having more energy when consuming the 10 strain blend. 

 

How high I get or how long the high lasts I found depends purely on the THC level in each strain and what I'm doing physically at the time. And even if it is a weaker strain then I can just smoke a bit more and get the same effect as a stronger strain. 

 

Now I mainly look for certain physical properties when I buy bud and I try and get ones with the higher THC levels so I can consume less to achieve the same desired effect. I don't pay attention to what sort of mood they are claiming it will provide, nor whether it's a "Sativa" or "Indica". And smell and taste is a bit more important to me now when choosing a strain since I use a vaporizer. 

 

My results are purely personal, but I tried to take an objective approach using a lot of different strains and my results lead me to my anticipated conclusion. 

 

Try doing your own test. Get some different "Sativa" and "Indica" dominant hybrids and do a blind test by consuming them without knowing which one each one is and see if you can work it out after you smoke it. Without the subconscious preprogramming by knowing anything about the strain before consuming it you might find you have similar results to what I experienced. 

Just because your not sensitive to the difference between Sativa and Indica that does not mean everyone is like you......There is a big difference between the two...

4 hours ago, Joebuzzz said:

I use https://www.dentalsmilepattaya.com/

Very happy with service and staff.  They managed to save my teeth, all 8 I have left, for an estimated 2 years after I came in to have them all pulled. Still there a year later.  Made me a new bottom denture that's never needed adjustment.  Could've charged me for a new full upper but instead relined it.

Wouldn't go anywhere else.

Very good dental clinic ....Not rock bottom cheapest but also not top dollar...

For a simple filling or crown or easy root canal there are cheaper places....But for the big problems this is where I go....

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

Next they planned to stop at a restaurant and have lunch for free then maybe over for a free beer or two then a free massage....WHAT?  you have to pay for all this stuff?  What kind of place is this. It is not fair.  How do you spell DUMB.

I always thought once you got off the plane every thing was free...

The Thai press loves the Mr Smiley road show......This guy is not a leader but he is a entertainer...

On 1/11/2024 at 4:24 PM, Mike Lister said:

This thread has become too unwieldy and confused to be of real value any longer. It is too long for most posters to scroll through to find pertinent information and will be closed.

 

A new thread will be opened shortly, designed to complete the Simple Guide to Personal Taxation which remains incomplete. The objective there is to construct a single document that will benefit ALL members, recording all the things that are known and listing the things that are unknown or unclear. The purpose is so that everyone, readers and contributors alike, achieve a similar understanding so that some of the fear and anxiety of the unknown, is removed.  

 

If anyone wishes to start a discussion about CRS or any other aspect of taxation, please open a dedicated thread that focuses on just that topic but please be clear what the scope is.Please keep it within the appropriate forum

Only 211 pages....Come on we can do 500 pages....I am a believer...

What we need is

Smoke weed....Go to jail

Smoke Tobacco...Go to jail

Drink alcohol....Go to jail

Eat meat....Go to jail

Have sex....Go to jail  

All this is nothing but trying to squeeze a few tiny bread crumbs out of retired expats on a fixed pension....

You could just get the tax free visa...

Or

Stay 179 days wire into Thailand 100 billion baht come back in 6 months and not pay a single baht in tax on that 100 billion baht EVER for the rest of your life....

As this lady once said.....Only the little people pay taxes....

29 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I have incorporated all the changes that have been suggested into Version 5 of the Tax Guide (below) and asked the Moderators to pin it in a locked thread, within the Finance section. If anyone wishes to suggest further changes, you can either post them here and hope that I spot them, or, you can PM me with the suggestion which I will ensure is discussed by a wider audience. If there is agreement that further changes should be made, and/or as new developments occur, I will attempt to update the document to keep it current.

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

8 January, 2024

Version 5

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

26. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

 

You put a big effort into this post.....

But if these numbers are correct..

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

This is a stinking joke.....

Just renting a very modest 17,000 baht a month condo would already put you at 204,000 baht and thats before you spend so much as one dollar on any thing else in a entire year......God forbid if you needed to eat or use electricity or visit a hospital etc...

Even a Thai worker only making 500 baht a day.......500 X 365= 182,500 baht a year...

So is every Thai and Farang  not homeless and living on the beach going to be paying this tax?

Yea right when pigs fly...

If they want this tax to really work they must give out at least a 2-3 million baht exemption every year to everybody.....So they will only be catching big fish...

And No we are not closing down to pot shops.....They will be free to sell all the 0.2% weed they want......

The Full Report Has Now Been Published

But its Confidential so we can not tell you whats in it......