redwood1

23 minutes ago, Klonko said:

It shows that record keeping and respective potential discussions with Thai RD will be cumbersome.  I have remitted a large amount in my non-tax resident year 2023. keep some existing savings on a non-interest bearing account for later tax free remittance, and I will use remittances with DTA credits only as last resort. 

I would love to hear the discussions with the Japanese, Chinese,Indians,Russians and a whole bunch of other non Thai and barely any English speaking nationalities..

I have not been to dental school but I have watched a few you-tube videos and I work real cheap.......Give it some thought....

2 hours ago, 4myr said:

Here a short summary of the 2nd meeting at the tax office in Prachuap Khiri Khan. First I planned to go to the office in Hua Hin, however I found out, Hua Hin has a much smaller branch office.

This time the topic is "exemptions" as specified in the Double Tax Agreement between NL and Thailand. Based on hardcopies in Thai and English. Both documents were retrieved from the Thai RD office.

 

We made an appointment with a lawyer from the Legal dept of the tax office. He asked his colleagues to join, 2 colleagues from the operational department. His female boss and a junior colleague who were in the room also listened to the conversation.

 

Focus of the meeting is the interpretation of Article 23.5 "exemptions" of the NL-Thai DTA from 1975:

https://wetten-overheid-nl.translate.goog/BWBV0003872/1976-06-09?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

"Where a resident of Thailand [i.e. tax resident] derives benefits and income or owns assets which are subject to the provisions of Articles 6, 7, 10(7), 11(5), 12(4), 14(1) and (2), 15(1) and (3) paragraphs, 16 , paragraphs 2, 17, 19  and 22, paragraphs 1 and 2, of this Agreement may be taxed in the Netherlands, Thailand shall exempt such benefits and income or those assets from tax, but may, in calculating the tax on the other income or capital of that resident, apply the tax rate that would have applied if the exempt income or capital had not been exempt."

 

The wording "shall exempt"  is very clear to me, and means no tax in Thailand, even if NL does not apply tax, for the following revenue items, which apply to me:

 

1) art 14.1 - in case I sell my house located in NL with profit and I remit this money. Capital gains are not taxed in NL.

2) art 16.2 - fees as a director of my company, which is based only in NL. Does not have a branch in Thailand

3) art 19 - when I retire in a couple of years, the state pension I will receive from government funds. 

 

Well in the meeting, the tax lawyer did not express his opinion. But his colleague from the operational dept was very clear and vocal. That in the history of tax filing cases, she did not come across exemptions being applied. Only tax credits are allowed.

 

Well I told her politely that I disagree with her, as the English version of 23.5, which I downloaded from the TRD website is quite clear, and when a dispute arises, between NL and TH, the English language version will be leading.

 

I also told her that the DTA is also clear about tax credits, which should be regarded differently than exemptions, in the subsequent article 23.6:

 

"Thailand shall grant a reduction in the tax calculated in accordance ..."

 

In case I do not agree with her answer, I can send the local tax office a written letter in Thai. Then they can open a case to request for advice to the head office in Bangkok. The officer said she will look into the matter again, if there were exemptions in the past, of tax not being applied in above mentioned cases.

 

Unfortunately the lawyer in the room did not say anything different than repeat what his colleague has said. His female boss printed out a case of a Swedish guy who filed tax about capital gains on stocks, however this does not match my case. I understand that gains on stocks does not get exemptions, also according to NL Thai DTA, as it is not fixed to a country similar to a property or a company.

 

At the end she had a simple advice, which will save time for me and the tax office. In the situation that I need to transfer sums of money, make sure I stay less than 180 days in that year in Thailand.

 

I also had a question about record keeping, in case an audit will check my records as evidence. The officer said that the RD got a lot of questions on this matter. She said that the RD head office will come with a document which list all these record keeping requirements. She could not say when. For example, on the day that I transfer money to Thailand, I need to keep a record of the euro-baht exchange rate of that day. [PS. I assume to convert a tax credit in euro to thai baht] 

 

 

What I learned from reading this is it gives me a headache....

How people can sit in a office all day reading piles of pages of this legalese I will never know...

6 hours ago, actonion said:

The Beach side of  Pattaya Beach Rd used  to have many Concrete Benches  under Trees,      I read somewhere the reason they were both taken away was   because they installed  tall  Flood Lights,  so say,  for the safety of Tourists,   and the Tree's were in the way, the Benches were taken away to stop   the ladies of the night  sitting  there... both reasons were  a waste of time, and money , Tourists still get problems from pick pockets  there,   and the Ladies still sit 

Yep.....The ladies go to the beach same as before but now they are only a little less comfortable.........And what did this cost?.....Over the last 10 years they have spent over 2 Billion baht yes I said Billion ......To make ladies a little less comfortable...

6 hours ago, LALes said:

Every soi in Bangkok needs shade trees, too.

Yes the seating removal and tree cutting is a world wide epidemic.....Its not only happening in Pattaya...

7 hours ago, Henryford said:

That's why i never go to Pattaya beach. I am sure they cut down all the trees to force you to pay for the deckchairs to get any shade. I go to Jomtien beach which has a few trees left but sure they will go soon too.

Almost no one goes to HOT Pattaya beach anymore Sunrise to Sunset 365 days a year...Go there any day of the week except festival days.....There are almost no people there ......I challenge anyone here to go see for yourself.... 

9 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

So you start a thread complaining about them ripping up some paving tiles to lay some electrical cable underneath, however now you want to rip up the entire beach walkway to plant some trees 😆 

 

Maybe you need to just not go to Pattaya Beach if you dislike it so much

This is exactly what needs to happen.....The Entire walkway needs to be napalmed then bulldozed, cleared of everything except the few remaining shade trees and rebuilt again from bare dirt.....Its the only way to make things nice again..

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Pattaya City Hall don't like trees, vile weed

You hit the nail on the head here......But they are mostly just following their marching orders from above...

15 hours ago, JimTripper said:

it's about funneling people into bars. 

Not really......Its about funneling people into the new Neo-Pattaya / agenda 21 / a technocracy where there is no place for nature...

16 hours ago, Upnotover said:

It doesn't need them as it had them before.  Similar to your photos.  They are not coming back.

Sir wrong you are....Pattaya beach WILL be restored to look like the photos above...One day the evil doers who are responsible for Pattayas beach destruction will be gone......Maybe 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 or more years the nasty crew will be gone......And the whole disgusting beach as it is now can be ripped out and some thing beautiful will be built...... 

1 hour ago, thecyclist said:

Have root canals really gotten that expensive in Thailand??10k?

That would have been around 3 to 5 k not that long ago.

Come to Vietnam, 2000 Baht for a root canal.3500 for a crown. 

It all depends on the tooth for root canal pricing....For a front tooth you might pay only 7-8 thousand baht if you look around for a crown root canal its 11-13 thousand........But still way way way less than USA prices....

I just had a root canal done on a molar one week ago....And the cost was 12,000 baht with 2 appointments....The root canal was filled....And that was it....A crown is not needed on a molar root canal in most cases....Its a waste of money and time and purpose...

I have a whole mouth full of crowns and root canals....So I know what I am talking about....Molars are strong enough just with a filling provided they are next to other teeth and not standing alone or in too terrible of shape with massive decay...

20 hours ago, stat said:

The only reason I can think if that they only issued 5500 LTR visa and were hoping for a lot more.

I would say the number of people who have 80,000 dollars a year in passive income are very few in number.....Heck I have a friend who had a good government job in the USA and he only gets a pension of 50,000 dollars a year....Even with Social Security he still does not get 80,000 dollars a year...

No wonder they have only issued 5500 LTRs.........What is that like 2% of all expats?

What were they thinking that expats would have 80,000 dollars a year appear from nowhere....

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Your 'very clear interpretation 'needs to be clearly caveated that you (and I) are NOT a tax experts and not qualified to give taxation advice.

Unfortunately some people think comments made by yourself and some others is that of a qualified expert - and they may follow that advice, and then if it goes all pear shaped they might sue you/AN.

 

On the point at hand - I will state this yet again. There are 10s of millions of Thais that do not lodge tax returns, but they earn over the minimum technical requirement as you note.  I will state that perhaps many of them after deductions allowances etc do not have any income tax to pay - maybe.  But they have received the income level you claim is absolute - and yet TRD does nothing about that - it is a well known fact.  Any attempt to clamp down on and fine Expats who dont file, will probably result in (besides Expats quitting the country) in human rights and/or discrimination complaints by Expats groups.  If the TRD clamps down on ALL Thais then Expats will possibly be caught up in the net - but if they target Expats in particular, the blowback will be extreme. 

This is a good point regarding the vast and huge majority of Thais have never filed a tax form in their life....A most likely the numbers of Thais that should have been filing but never have must be in the XX millions and millions...

In the USA the IRS says openly They do not want anyone filing taxes if your income is below a certain level ...

To be honest if it was not for the handful of serial posters here who have made it their life mission to keep this thread alive........This thread would be buried on page 6-7-8-9  where it should be...

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Glad I put 50000 into an LTR visa. It is obvious to me that now Elite's customer base are true millionaires. LTR catches the middle class. And that leaves the others...

The LTR requires a whole whole lot more hoop jumping than Elite does....

The LTR  wants a whole lot from retirees who may just want to lead a simple life in their sunset years...

Hey after a few unwanted soakings I have thought about doing bad things myself that might put others in the hospital.

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

Sheez, think you need to look at some deeper aspects to the income side of the books,  do try asking that dumnassed question of the selling agents!! 

Please tell us all about it...

26 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Take a lot of customers to warrant that price albeit it is usually busy, the last time I was in there one of the ladies approached me, quite a stunner really and said my p**** is open 24 hours a day, straight forward and to the point, I didn’t take her up on it though.

Lets say your profit was 45 baht a beer....

39 million baht divided by 45 baht = 866,666 beers you need to sell to break even and this does not include overhead cost...

2 hours ago, stat said:

Fully agree! However it is beyond me why they cut the price of LTR

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thailand-long-term-resident-ltr-visa

 

Interesting....Looks like they knocked 50K off the application fee..But left all the other very very high bar requirements......I agree its strange.....