JT65

Thailand a "First World Country" within 12 months.

First World my arse!!

Hi All

Just got back from Maesai two days ago. I thought I would tell of my experience to relieve a few peoples anxiety over some of the posts.  First I went to the office as usual and the only thing that was different was there was a photocopied sign in plain view that if you had been over the border at Maesai more than two times before you need to surrender photocopies of every page of your passport. I have more than two Maesai stamps but they were not consecutive. There were breaks with Singapore etc and my home country. The lady and gentleman at the head office were more than nice to me and extremely polite.  Well after getting my exit stamp it was off to the border bridge.  Went out with no problems of course. Once on the other side I bought some Johnny Walker and a couple of bottles of white from the lovely Thai lady in the duty free on the burmese side. Asked for her telephone number and for a date but was turned down as she already has a boyfriend. Oh well !!

Once back at the Thai side there was a long wait to get to one of the officers. There were not that many people but only two windows and they really took their time. I was worried.  Once my turn the officer inspected my last page and current visa and then gave me a good looking over. He then proceeded to every page. Once finished looked me over again and repeated the whole process another two times. I kept my cool but inside I was shitting myself. Anyway he never asked me one question , just stamped the passport and gave it back to me. I must have been with him more than 5 minutes but it seemed like 20 minutes.

The guy next to me was really getting a hard time. I am not sure but he looked like a long termer as he spoke decent Thai and was asked more than 3 times to clarify the address he as staying at in full details and finally told to write both his handphone and telephone number of guesthouse on the card. I have never seen this before. Maybe he was a 30 day hopper. He was still there when I left.

Now just so you know my last 12 months of stamps are all real with exits to other countries and a couple of border hops in different places. My concern was what I believed was a stamp from a "A" agent over a year ago when the Maesai border was closed. Anyway he didnt question it and Im fine.

One thing I will say , and Im sure I will be blasted for this , is that the attire of the Foreigners at both the Main Immigration Office and on the border left a lot to be desired. I wore a business shirt and some good pants and took a shoulder bag with my business documents, and references from Thai suppliers in it. I personally am off the belief that this type of apprearance helps in Thailand. When I was at the main office a busload of Foreigners turned up in shorts , open shirts and flip flops. Im 37 and these guys could have been my father. They should know better. One guy was wearing a bandana! With all the crackdowns happening I think that people should present themselves a bit better when going to borders and immigration points. Just my opinion

:laugh:

Hi All

Just got back from Maesai two days ago. I thought I would tell of my experience to relieve a few peoples anxiety over some of the posts.  First I went to the office as usual and the only thing that was different was there was a photocopied sign in plain view that if you had been over the border at Maesai more than two times before you need to surrender photocopies of every page of your passport. I have more than two Maesai stamps but they were not consecutive. There were breaks with Singapore etc and my home country. The lady and gentleman at the head office were more than nice to me and extremely polite.  Well after getting my exit stamp it was off to the border bridge.  Went out with no problems of course. Once on the other side I bought some Johnny Walker and a couple of bottles of white from the lovely Thai lady in the duty free on the burmese side. Asked for her telephone number and for a date but was turned down as she already has a boyfriend. Oh well !!

Once back at the Thai side there was a long wait to get to one of the officers. There were not that many people but only two windows and they really took their time. I was worried.  Once my turn the officer inspected my last page and current visa and then gave me a good looking over. He then proceeded to every page. Once finished looked me over again and repeated the whole process another two times. I kept my cool but inside I was shitting myself. Anyway he never asked me one question , just stamped the passport and gave it back to me. I must have been with him more than 5 minutes but it seemed like 20 minutes.

The guy next to me was really getting a hard time. I am not sure but he looked like a long termer as he spoke decent Thai and was asked more than 3 times to clarify the address he as staying at in full details and finally told to write both his handphone and telephone number of guesthouse on the card. I have never seen this before. Maybe he was a 30 day hopper. He was still there when I left.

Now just so you know my last 12 months of stamps are all real with exits to other countries and a couple of border hops in different places. My concern was what I believed was a stamp from a "A" agent over a year ago when the Maesai border was closed. Anyway he didnt question it and Im fine.

One thing I will say , and Im sure I will be blasted for this , is that the attire of the Foreigners at both the Main Immigration Office and on the border left a lot to be desired. I wore a business shirt and some good pants and took a shoulder bag with my business documents, and references from Thai suppliers in it. I personally am off the belief that this type of apprearance helps in Thailand. When I was at the main office a busload of Foreigners turned up in shorts , open shirts and flip flops. Im 37 and these guys could have been my father. They should know better. One guy was wearing a bandana! With all the crackdowns happening I think that people should present themselves a bit better when going to borders and immigration points. Just my opinion

Looking for Info

Doing a border run soon to Mae Sai and have a two year old stamp from Chiang Saen . Was done when the border was closed through a reputable agent. They went through Chiang Saen and then got a stamp in Tachilek.

Curious to know if anyone has actually done this and if so how did they do it. I presume they went through the casino and then by taxi to Tachilek?

Any info appreciated.

JT

Hi All

Just curious on the latest news re the fake visa stamps. Last week and the one previous to that there was a flurry of posts coming in with people panicking etc etc.  Some of the moderators said "wait till Tuesday" as something was happening between the doors of power to sort it all out.

Its been awfull quite on the board and its "Tuesday" so whats happening?  Has it truly all blown over or was there never 360 Foreigners arrested?

People please listen it doesn't matter pre last thursday . Period

Easymoney

I may have missed a post of yours but can you please explain to me the above comment and your previous one. Why doesnt it help getting a new passport and what happened pre last Thursday?

Currently nationalities I know of that have been arrested (personally) include Israeli, Irish & British. Dont know whether they are targeting certain nationalities. I would imagine that there would naturally be less US citizens arrested as there is a much smaller number of them in Thailand than any other nationalities, and most dont stay on long stays here.

Information on going to immigration. If you loose your passport and go to immigration with your new passport, immigration look in their computer for your last known good stamp. No fake stamps will be listed. Therefore you will be required to pay the overstay since your last known good stamps. I know many people who have done this and who had dodgy stamps. Their overstay varied from 1-3 months depending when their last illegally acquired stamp was registered in the immigration system.

Thankyou Scooter and Thankyou again

This is the type of info that people should be posting as it actually helps others understand what they might do. From your post I gather that losing the passport is not a bad option based on the fact that they  pull up your LAST stamp. I would assume this may be helped if you photocopy your last stamp with TM card prior to losing it. So if your worried about stamps from a year or so ago and the recent ones or at least the last one is okay then losing your passport could be the best option. There are many people concerned about stamps from a year ago or more when they used an agent. They obviously changed their ways since that time and recent stamps have been obtained by themselves, but they are worried about been caught on the old stamps. For these people a new passport may be the answer

Scooter I’ve got news for your friends.

It will be at least 3 years for the conclusion of a court case here in Thailand.

If you were Japanese your Embassy may help you, but for others don’t waste your time.

I will take bet they get jail term and have to go to the Supreme Court after they loose their first appeal.

MaiChai Its not just about Visas.

Thailand are Rich now and don’t need our money now they have paid their DEBTS.

Axel is right except for one suggestion.

Thailand won’t care what the rest of the world will think.

ChiangMaiThai why would they arrest a Thai that has no money and brought great wealth to Thailand.

Lonely Planet could be up for legal action against them if they have backed this Visa Scam.

wilson steer Expect to support him for the next 3 years while he can not leave the country.

JT65 The Thai Computer system is better than we give credit for.

I suggest that even with a new replacement Passport you work out what could be on computer and what is not before you hand yourself in.

And don’t forget that the Thai Immigration would have been given all the lists of foreigners that have used the illegal services so that the Thai owners would not be charged for helping stamp out corrupt visitors.

I suggest to those who stay in Thailand with scammed Visas think about changing address before they come looking for you at the address you filled in on the Visa form at the scam office.

I approached this forum for help before and some laughed.

You got no chance of them helping your friend.

Bangkokblue There is an answer just stay tuned.

I wanted to start a website solely listing Thai corruption. Is anyone interested.

It will run from Australia Land of the Free.

Can anyone help now.

DaveYo the average person with no money wont last more than 3 weeks in a Thai Jail before doing himself in.

If you go in and have no money or friends on the outside you will die there.

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Bob Chittie After getting a new Passport in BKK you are required to go straight to the Thai Immigration (which I have been through) For them to check it with their records.

If you do it at a border and have problems you will see what #### and the Devil himself look like. At least in BKK you may only see ####.

Roger13 Being stolen may not be so bad. You could blame someone else for the stamps.

But I think even if lost you are still required to report it to police.

 

Well there you go, according to this guy there is nothing we can do, we are basically all xxxxxxx.  Maybe he is right.  Maybe their computer system is "State of the Art" and losing your passport is a waste of time. They will catch you anyway.

Maybe he is right, I have no idea. Im still interested in finding solutions rather than throwing in the towel.

Has anyone actually tried just turning up at their Embassy with their passport and ask to see a senior person there and explain the situation honestly and ask for advice. I am probably naive , and may very well be flamed extensively for this idea but I was under the impression that the idea of an embassy was to provide assistance to its expats when in time of need.  I mean if anyone is going to understand the situation and know the inside info on all this it should be our embassies.

Replies and thoughts on this idea would be appreciated.

At this stage I still think the only option for the people who are not sure of their stamps is to get a new passport. Of course this only works if the last stamp was a real one. If the last one was not then I guess it wont be in the computer. I agree immigration will be suspicious about you having lost your passport but what can they really do.

Any better ideas should be posted as many people will be running out of time im sure.

I received a phone call this morning at 3.30 am. from a friend of mine who lives in Pattaya nine months a year.  

He was asking me to send him £1760.00 GBP sterling so he could get bail.

I am assuming your friend is British.  It seems Brits are being targeted.  I have yet to read of a US person being arrested.   Has anyone else?

This is an interesting point. More Brits seem to be targeted. I have not heard of any Australians, Americans or generally those countries about to attend the APEC meeting been arrested. It seems the APEC expats are not been targeted. I may be wrong about this one.  If anyone has heard of an APEC foreigner been arrested would appreciate if they could post the info.

Hi All

Have followed this since the beggining and am very disappointed in the actions of the government on this issue. They seem to forget how many Thais live overseas. Anyway harping on the unfairness of it all will not change anything. Fairness and Integrity are not qualities that seem to be found easily in Thailand.

I am for putting out some real info on what we all know and pooling our information so as we may help each other as much as we can. Bickering amongst ourselves is a waste of energy.

I have been around asking as many foreigners and some agents as much as I can and as far as I have heard that the fake stamps originated this last summer mainly from the southern areas of Thailand. That means people may have fake stamps if they used agents around Bangkok or in the South in May, June, July of this year.  From the people I have spoke to the northern stamps coming from Maesai and Chaingsaen and Maesot are all okay. Also people have posted on this website that the stamps may be 1-2 years old but from the info i have got it is only stamps from this year that are the problem. Please understand I am not posting this as factual information rather information that I have gathered myself of other expats etc. I am posting it so as others may do the same so we can begin to pool the information and try to help each other. I personally am fine with my stamps as I do my own runs but I have many friends who are not and I do not want them losing wads of cash to the same people who promoted the service in the beggining. Nor do I wish to see them in a Thai Jail wether it be 5 days or 5 years.

Lets try to at least agree that helping our fellow expats is a better option than telling them they should have known better. The stress levels of the expats I know are through the roof at present and many are leaving the country and selling up. This , I believe is what the Government wants. I am not sure if it is what the Thai people want but when I return to my own country I certainly will have a very different view of Thailand than the one I came with.

Cheers

Quote Remember this man will put our country in trouble? UnQuote. The big man. ???

Can someone confirm that this is actually what the "big Man" said because I thought he actually said the " be carefull as just one man will not be the answer to all your problems" which is somewhat different to what people have been posting on this board.  If he did say the former than I am surprised with his standing in this country that more people did not take notice.  

Off topic a bit more I would be interested to know if Taksins book " Think like Taksin" has an English version and if not has anyones thai wife etc read the Thai Version. I would be keen to know if there is any mention of his thoughts on Foreigners in Thailand.

If any of you had any doubts about Thailand not wanting foreigners in their land anymore, I guess its becoming almost impossible to ignore.  I find it hard to believe that none of this has been mentioned in the Bangkok Post or The Nation.

If it has can someone please direct me to the section outlining how many foreigners are been held due to them illegally entering the country.

Im still keen to know if anyone has been nabbed from fake stamps originating in the Northern parts of Thailand such as Maesai or Maesot or Chiangsaen?

They all seem to be from Bangkok and Southern agents?

Hi All

Just a question on this panic over the stamps. I too panicked and trotted down to the place where I had a run done for me.  The boss is best friend of my best friends wife (understand that one?) so I figured i have a 10% better chance of getting a straight answer. She looked at the passport and advised me no problem as all the fake stamps were done in Bangkok and down south, not in the North. She still did not instill a great deal of confidence to me in her comments.  Does anyone know exactly how many farang have been arrested and where?  If it is now in the hundreds I am sure this would have made the news internationally.  I am keen to know if any arrests have been made with fake stamps for borders up north?

Very keen for any info!

Cheers

Hi All

If someone has used one of these services and is still in Thailand, wouldnt it be easier to just lose their passport and show up at their embassy in Bangkok for a new one. Problem solved.

Of course maybe it is more complicated than this, I dont know. Any ideas?

To All who Posted

I just returned home from dinner with the Mrs and its a bit late. I have tried to read everything that is in reply to the requested info. I must admit I need to re read in the morning to take it all in.

Many thanks to all who posted with advice and information. It is much appreciated.

Regards

JT

Hi Chiangmai Thai

Thanks for your opinion again. I know Ive asked before about this but I followed closely Ruling out The Foreigner and it has really put me on a big down slope which is not good for business.  My business back home is a family one and my brother is very concerned about info I have told him.  I guess I am trying to make sure we can keep coming here to do business with the suppliers we have worked with for the last 3 years.  The problem with these new government regs is that they dont seem to be finalised in a detailed format. There is a lot up in the air, so to say. This makes people like me and everyone else on the board nervous.  They seem to want to attract big money which is fine but for people like me it is starting to do the opposite.

Appreciate the reply Dr Pat Pong.

I will endeavor to continue as per normal. Is it the general consensus that the multiple entry version of the non immigrant B will be scraped and people will be only issued a 3 month non b at a time.  If this happens I will still be okay as I usually go out within any three month period anyway.  I do worry if they start saying you have to go out for 3 or 6 months before you can return. That would make business impossible for me and force me to export from China or Vietnam which is not what we want to do.

Hi All

I wanted to post this on the "Ruling out the Foreigner" list but it seems to have been given the chop.

I know there was a long thread on this in the past but I did miss it.  I am a little confused on a few areas , especially with the new rules. In the past many people have stated that a Non Immigrant B visa is for the specific purpose of obtaining a work permit and nothing more. Many seem to have confirmed this point.  My question is that if this is the case, what type of visa do people who come to Thailand obtain if they are coming here for a specific business purpose such as exporting furniture etc.  I imagine that they do not get a tourist visa as this is for tourist purposes only?

I need to know as I export a lot of homewares out of Thailand and have been staying here due to the amount we export. I obviously need to check or make orders every week. Many say that I am working in Thailand but my Company is in my home country.  We sell the product there and my weekly wage comes from there, I also pay tax in my home country.  I have had a multiple entry Non B for the last 3 years as the business has grown. Many times within the 3 month stays I have left for Vietnam or Laos or other parts of Asia on business and at busy periods in Thailand have just done the normal Visa Run.  Well with the new rules it seems from what I have read that my embassy will be told not to issue anymore multiple entry visas.  This means that I will just be given 3 month B Visas?  Is this what others feel will happen?

Furthermore if anyone knows what type of visa I should be applying for please advise me. The home embassy knew my full story and after checking how many containers a year I did always gave me a multiple entry B. They never asked anything about setting up a Thai Company or why I dont have a work permit.  Any further info on this would be appreciated.

Cheers

So Confused

WMD ? where ?  

WMD?  Are they in Thailand?  

yes they are and beware. Just returned from Loi Kroh Rd in Chiangmai and spotted many.  Obviously well disguised to avoid detection.

Look for long tanned legs, Long dark hair and deep exotic brown eyes.  Usually found loitering in Bars and on street corners. These individuals if given half a chance are definitely capable of been WMDs!

Paul

I put a post on this question late last week and there did not seem to be any replies.  I did search the site and found that somewhere ( I forget where) it said that Manilla was quite positive on approving visas as it was rarely visited for them.

I too have a Non Immigrant B visa and will be flying out end of the month to try Manilla office.  If it is near the same time maybe we can catch up for a beer.

You Guys are really too stupid!

As you know one is not allowed to do here anything, so how can you  rise the money then?

Foreigners can not start a business here as locals can do.

All the nonsense here is designed to keep the aristocratic ruling elite in power.

They want only two kinds of falangs here:

1. Whealthy retiries who will have a high monthly income flowing into Thailland from abroad or having millions to spend.

2. Big investors. That means really big, like multinational companys, which will bring in millions ( dollars not baht) at a time. Those will bring great profits to those in power since they will sell them the land and materials needed to start production here.

When they speak of improving the Thai economy they speak of increasing the wallet size of those who are in power.

They don't want small and medium size businesses here as these would benefit mostly the lower income groups in this country and thus pose a thread to the "superiority" of the so

called "high class".

And too many average falangs living here could give the locals too much knowledge of the outer world and real democracy, which is not wanted by the "elite"

I think many people living here are not at all  aware of the real live here, the daily slavery. The average "small" Thai person is somewhat like a slave with no or little rights, and the "elite" want to keep them there.

Ive read the whole thread and watched it from the start. Just my opinion of course, but this guy knows what he is talking about. The Thai / Chinese elite do not want foreigners on their turf. Plain and simple. Anybody who lives in Thailand and works for themselves, owning a business etc (not for a multinational company) can see quite plainly that these new laws together with existing ones make it almost impossible to reach the goals set by the government.  This is obviously the plan from the outset for the reasons rambutan states.