Albert Zweistein

3 hours ago, Dexxter said:

Is that all? I'll take you on any day with my Sayonara and Sumimasen skills.

I forgot to mention my Kamikaze skills.

3 hours ago, baboon said:

That's nowt. I am a practitioner of the ancient Newcastle martial art of How Yee...

Is this typical Geordie ?

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

You did not upset me at all. What gave you an indication that I was upset?

and I did not mix up Baht with dollars , I simply divided the Baht  amount by the current exchange rate of 33.2 and also gave  the amount in dollars  for those who might not be able to get their head around a Bht quote. 

As to not electrifying the entire 4070 km , what deferens does it make, the cost is still proportional. as are the results. 

I recalculated your maths in a different way and found out that yours are correct, sorry for that. Still I think it if the budget allocated for the purchase of submarines and F35 fighter jets would be used for it this will be a good step in the right direction, in my opinion purchasing  diesel locs is turning the clock backward.

Is this advertisement for cannabis paid for by the ministry of health ?

19 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So €17-18 billion to electrify the country, even though no country has ever done that and a majority of lines are seldom used.  You are beginning to sound quite ridiculous now.

 

They are replacing ancient 5-year old polluting locomotives with brand new low emission units.   A lot has changed in 50 years.  This is a massive step in the right direction and should be applauded.

You are basically saying Thailand shouldn't be able to promote EVs unless it has electrified it's whole rail network first?

Again you are beginning to sound quite ridiculous.

It's easy to call everything you disagree with as ridiculous, besides it's not very pollite.

I never mentioned they should electrify the entire country but it's doable over a stretch of say 10 years.

Replacing 5 year old polluting locs because a lot has changed in 50 years ? Are you on Chang ?

Again I am not basically saying Thailand shouldn't be able to promote EV's, these are your words.

I've spent my entire working life in marine diesel engines so you don't have to tell me how polluting or not polluting they are and how much has changed in 50 years or do you mean 5 years ?

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

This is the last time I will reply to this  , because you seem to be missing the point. every time in this thread. 

Being American my mind is stuck in mile  mode. It km, not miles

The 8 Billion bht is for 50  km , not the whole 4070 , assuming that this amount applies for every 50km stretch (some could be more, others could be less) 

it would be 4070/50=81.4x8=651,2 billion dollars for the whole 4070  or at 33.3 bht per dollar =$ 19.5 billion dollars 

In comparison  In 2020, the value of  national budget for operation in Thailand  amounted to around 236 billion Thai baht. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1249519/thailand-national-budget-value-for-operation/

Please correct me if my math is faulty 

 

All to remove what amounts the pollution of the equivalent  of  a few tractor tailor trucks, 

 

Sir, sorry if I have upset you with the KM/miles mix up but your math is indeed faulty as you mix up baht with dollars.

Besides I never mentioned they should electrify the entire 4070 kms at once, if they do it in say 10 years it should be affordable even for a country like Thailand but we have to start somewhere to save this planet. Americans are not very aware of this and particularly not the trump voters.

It's you mentioning a few tractor tailor trucks, I disagree with that but I see we never get to agree to each other so I suggest we burry the tomahawk and smoke a peace pipe

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I got free lodging and free transport when I was working there and free air tickets as well. but you're obviously determined to have the last word. Have it with pleasure ????

 

 

But you were probably working for a western company because I have experienced different.

They make the "cheap labour" pay for everything.

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

You are missing the point, The point is that given Thailand's topography, If 50 km would cost 8 billion bht , you can imagine how much it would cost to electrify 4070 km.  

In a world of limited recourses iyou always have to do a cost/benefit assessment. .(biggest bang for your buck)

I don't disagree with you on the need for Thailand to do more toward mitigating pollution., or that global warming is a problem that need's  to be addressed, 

 But as I said spending billions to eliminate  less than a dozen diesel generators, would do little towards that goal,  and burn money better spend elsewhere. 

t 

 

  

First you stated 4070 MILES now it is 4070 KM, what is it ? just a slip of the keyboard ?

8 billion baht is cheap, only roughly 4,3 million EURO/KM, peanuts to a self declared hub of everything that spends billion to submarines and F 35 jets. Is this what you mean by spending better elsewhere ?

What bothers me is the gaffers brawling about Thailand being the hub of EV's soon and meanwhile purchasing diesel driven and polluting locs from China.

9 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Oh for heaven's sake! Of course they are doing it for their families, but the inward remittance of any money benefits the nation as well.

 

In just the same as our pensions do, by the way.

 

Of course it benefits the nation as well but not much after deduction of transport/boarding/lodging because nothing is free in Saudi Arabia.

Not my pension by the way.

20 hours ago, sirineou said:

And this is for a 50 km stretch of the 4070 miles of the SRT line. 

"Thailand’s Transport Ministry has asked the national rail operator to assess the feasibility of electrifying a train route in the far south. A secretary with the ministry says the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) will evaluate whether electrification of the 50km link is viable. "

 

" The estimated cost of the electric connection is almost THB8 billion. This section of the southern Thailand line is part of a greater project also under consideration." 

https://12go.asia/en/post/2652/thai-rail-operator-considers-electrification-of-southern-link

Now think about it, How many trains travel the SRT line every day? How much pollution does every diesel electric engine contributes to the environment?

Is it more than three or four tractor tailor trucks ?

 Now put your self in an administration position and you have to make a decision concerning the allocation of limited recourses. In a country where pollution from burning is such that some times you cant go outside or see far, do you spend billions of these recourses to  remove the equivalent of a few tractor tailor trucks? 

would this be a cost affective solution? is the cost/benefited ratio positive? 

A huge step forward, 50 KM out of 4070 Miles. It is exactly as I mentioned before, assess feasability and under consideration. A lot of talk but nothing happens.

Does the cost/benifit ration always have to be positive in the struggle against global warming ? 

It reminds me of an English proverb ; it's the penny that makes the pound. This also should apply in fighting pollution, remember we have only one planet.

19 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Nice deflection.

 

Sorry, it is actually happening after decades of little to no investment.

 

Sir, I think this topic is about the delivery of Chinese diesel locs to Thailand and not about the offer of two second hand submarines nor about an aircraft carrier that was purchased 27 years ago (incredibly relevant to this story!), and to be honest I really don't care about how and on what the military spend their budget.

I wonder how it feels to be a copycat.????

16 hours ago, Moonlover said:

How else can it be 'for the nation' unless it comes 'into the nation?' Many countries in the developing world are eager to see their nationals working abroad and remitting their salaries back home, for this very reason.

I think the abroad working nationals are doing this for their families and are not concerned about their nation.

7 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

No solution, it is in human. If you replace leaders, you have other leaders, doing the same or even worse.

You see that in history of humans all the time, any time. In any group we form, may it be religion, politic or whatever.

But cutting back on humans would be a good idea, as we are with too many. Stress could get less.

No more babies anymore for a period of beginning for 2 years.

We control animals in growth, so why not humans? Or did we already try with corona?

Chinese rules ?

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

The UK hasn't electrified 60% of its network because it is uneconomical and the traffic doesn't justify it, yet it spends £40+ billion on defence.  So they should shift that defence spending to railways and spend billions on electrifying networks for the sake of it, right?

Anyway Thailand IS spending billions of dollars on modernising it's rail network, building 1000's of kms of dual track, replacing 48 ancient diesel locomotives with brand new ones, adding 100's of kms of electrified commuter rail in Bangkok, and building new high speed electric lines.

Not enough for you?  They should be electrifying the whole country overnight instead even though no other advanced country has ever done the same (although China probably comes closest)?  

Sir, I think this topic is about the delivery of Chinees diesel locs to Thailand and not about the UK changing their budget from A to B and to be honest I really don't care about how and on what the pommies spend their budget.

Furthermore I am sure you are wrong about the billions of $ Thailand is spending on modernising and building 1000's of kms dual track. They are TALKING about it and this for decades already.

Today in the news the deal about the two second hand submarines coming from China, probably ending tied along the useless aircraft carrier. War toys seem more important than enything else.

They're OK with a lot of cosmetics and probably silicones.

16 hours ago, Moonlover said:

You express surprise, why? In almost all cases, Asians who go to work abroad remit their incomes back to their home country to support their families. That's money coming into the nation.

 

Because that doesn't attract money back to the nation as in the answer above. Besides, how can they possibly send foreigners to a foreign land?

It says money FOR the nation not coming INTO the nation.

17 hours ago, sirineou said:

So let me see if I understand this correctly.

Thailand should invest billions of dollars to electrify it's railroad system so that the few diesel electric  trains that travel the system would not pollute the air burning diesel.,  while everyone burns garbage, the sugar cane fields, and grass on the side of the road? 

Such investment should remove the equivelar of a few tractor trail truck pollution from the air, certainly a worth while investment? 

Perhaps  they can  finance the electrification by raising the price of the train fare, maybe 30.000 bht for a trip from BKK to Khon Kaen could help make such worth while endeavor  financially viable. But they should keep the diesel electric engines so that they can hep push the electrified trains when there is a power failure and or disruption in the transmission lines. ????

Why shouldn't they invest billions of $, aren't they the hub of everything and prepared to spend billions in submarines, fighter jets and aircraft carriers but the environment they don't care about.

Yes also the hub of garbage and sugar cane fields burning unfortunately.

Besides their brothers of the CCP are probably more than willing to help financing.

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I couldn't learn the language, much harder than Thai. 

It sounds harder than Thai because they're always drunk.

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

A train who's propulsion  is provided by electric motors is an electric train.

  There two choices  in providing electricity to those electric motors. One is to have it transmitted to the electric train via overhead wires or a third rail, and the other is to have it  either stored or generated in board, both these options have their challenges.

Overhead transmission requires a certain amount of infustracture that  either topography and or a country's economy might not make it technically and economically viable.  For many countries at their particular level of economic development and topographical challenges such as Thailand, on board electrical generation is the best option.

  Several on board generation options have been considered, but given the possibility off a catastrophic accident as  it often happens with trains, diesel is so far the best option. 

Does Diesel pollute?

it does to an extend but not more than most of the pickup trucks all those in this forum that have an issue with this acquisition drive.  It is also worth to consider that remorse electric generation and transmission has a pollution component.    

I don't mean to be didactic, but  I hope the above explanation put's this issue to bed????  

You are absolutely wrong, you might call them electric trains but the rest of the world calls them diesel electric : edisontechcenter.org/diesel-electriclocomotives and up.com/diesel-electriclocomotives.

No need to teach me about the infrastructure needed for overhead power supply as I live in a country with one of the most electrified railway systems in the world.

Your remark about pollution I consider as silly, we should seriously start at least try to reduce pollution and not produce more and more items on the world that ingrease pollution and compare them to pick up truck like you do, why not compare them to motorbikes or airplanes or humans as we all breath CO2.

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Do you mean 'kippers'? They seemed to love herring. Yes, many drunk people.

No, it means cheers or something similar.

9 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Seems targetted killing, and I venture possibly gang related. Shot that many times it was not a jealous lovers tiff 

 

He forgot to tip in their restaurant.

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I certainly don't think that. It's the most miserable country I've ever worked in, and mixed with the darkness and cold in winter, I'll never go back. 

Not to the Fins cause they're always drunk or are they always drunk because of ? Kippish !

17 hours ago, seedy said:

Not surprised to see the EV Fanatics jump all over this.

As if overhead power lines get their 'juice' from fairy dust.

To further your education :

fanatic

1. A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

Once I had the pleasure to join the engineer of the train in his "cockpit". It was only a 10 minute ride and being halfway the engineer when the train had reach speed switched of power and the train reached its destination without traction.

Not only that, the engineer pointed me a gauge showing in the same time the train was producing electricity and delivering to the net so no fairy dust needed.

And no I am not an EV Fananatic.