redwood13

The nit-picker who reviews your application in Thailand for your next extention will require all the documentation you initially filed in Washington and any other he deems necessary  and I bet your original documentation  won't be available for some reason or another. If your  original paperwork is filed in Bangkok immigration, they are hard pressed to deny having it or blaming another agency, such as the consulate service for not forwarding it.

My best advice, is to do it in Thailand, even if it requires two trips to Bangkok. Get your money into a Bangkok Bank, before you apply and get your bank letter with amount, date of tranfer and source bank included.  No criminal record document was required even though the regulations call for it.

Dress wll, be humble, be polite, and remember immigration officials are policemen who think in terms of enforcement, not service. Enjoy the adventure.

As far as I know the original documentation for the O-A remains at the issuing Consulate. The requirements for an O-A issued outside Thailand and converting a Non-Immigrant O to a retirement visa within Thailand differ.

For one thing, the visa extension after 356 days is based on showing money deposited in a Thai bank and/or monthly income per a statement for the applicant's embassy. Whereas the applicant for an O-A visa shows money in a US bank and the actual documentation of monthly income.

Yes, if applying in Bangkok you'd have to figure on at least a couple of trips to Immigration and possibly more.

Thus far I've found the immigration officials to be very polite and very helpful. The other day I saw a clueless farang stroll into Pattaya Immigration dressed in a tank top, shorts and flip-flops. He gave the officer a big ear to ear smile and a wai.

The officer returned the wai - holding his hands at his belt buckle!!!

-redwood

Redwood 13,

Your experience adds but one more wrinkle to the mystery of Thai immigration. I thought I had this O-A thing figured out, but I guess not.

My understanding was that after processing the O-A paperwork in the States, you would then get a single entry, 90 day visa stamp. Then, upon arrival at Don Muang, you would immediately proceed to the immigration window, where they would further stamp your passport, allowing for a 365 day stay. If you wanted multiple entries, it is at this point you would apply. And, of course, pay some more money.

Your experience was, obviously, different. And any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

First, what did the visa you received in the States say? Was it labelled "Non Immigrant O-A" or just "Non Immigrant O?" You've already mentioned that it was stamped 'multiple entry' Was the effective date that of the application, or that of the airline ticket departure date? (The airline ticket requirement is a completely new wrinkle, at least to me.)

When you got to Don Muang, did you follow the hoards of people through the immigration boothes -- or did you go to the immigration teller windows located off to the right as you face the boothes? What did immigration stamp in your passport? And, assuming you're at the teller window(s), did you have to pay anything more (over the $125 you'd already paid in the States)?

My questions are because, before your experience, the O-A procedure in the States appeared to be a goat rope, even nonsensical (like the requirement to have your medical and police forms 'notarized' -- which only guarantees signatures -- and I'm sure my doctor and police chief would not go to the notary office with me). But your experience sheds some really new light, and hopefully new policy, not a one time quirk. I now have this vision of getting a "Non Immigrant O-A" visa, multiple entry, while Stateside. Then, arriving at Don Muang, going through the boothe, and having a '365 day stay' stamp applied.

Oh, could you PM me the name of the honorary Consulate?

Many thanks for your time and info.

Jim, each individual can only relate what their personal experience has been in regard to dealing with Thai Immigration. It appears that each consulate and even each officer at Thai Immigration has a certain amount of leeway in how they interpret the regulations. Given that I'll answer you questions as best I can, given my personal experience.

The visa I have is a "Non-Immigrant O-A" - "Multiple Entry" valid to be used up to one year from date of issue.

Yes, I wan't expecting to have to show an airline ticket until I got the requirements from the Honorary Consulate that I used. This seems to be one of those requirements that varies from consulate to consulate.

At Don Muang I just went through immigration as I'd normally done in the past visits when I had a 60 day Tourist Visa. The officer stopped and thought for a couple of seconds when he saw the "N-I O-A" visa and then simply stamped my passport with the usual entry stamp along with the date stamp which he'd manually changed to give me a 365 day entry validity. No muss, no fuss and no additional money required.

A "goat rope"? Yes, indeed, especially if you're referring to the Los Angeles Consulate. They have the notarization requirement but the consulate I used didn't and I just noticed a few days ago that the DC Embassy appears not to require notarization but I'd call to be sure if you're going to use them. Does New York City?? I don't think so but I can't remember for sure. I've often wondered if LA's rule was simply another way to discourage folks from even applying there.

Not so much "new policy" as lack of consistency from consulate to consulate, immigraion office to immigration office and officer to officer.

I've PM'd you.

-redwood

Thanx buddy...one wonders therefore, why a multiple is necessary. For Gods sake, don't leave Muang Thai without a re-entry permit. Get a multiple if you plan to travel much. You will negate that O/A if you leave and re-enter without it.

Interestingly enough I was in Sihanoukville, Cambodia when this thread started. Before I departed Pattaya for Cambodia I'd asked a couple of long term residents here about the need for getting a re-entry permit given my visa status. They both agreed it wasn't necessary.

But, just to be certain I went to Thai Immigration in Pattaya and asked there and was told that I didn't need a re-entry permit given I have a one year multiple entry permit with the O-A visa.

Wednesday evening (Feb. 18) I arrived at Don Muang and was admitted without any mention of a re-entry permit by the immigration officer. The only thing he said was, "One year??". I said "Yes." And he stamped me in for 365 days, i.e. entry good until Feb. 2005!!!!

So, do I now have a new date to get my one year extension on my O-A or do I still have to get it extended in October which is 365 days after my first use of the O-A visa???

Another trip to Immigration is in order ;-)

-redwood

Thank you Mr. Redwood. I still have yet to find the 'personal data form' mentioned. You also said that you had a hard time getting a statement from your bank. Was that the bank in California or the bank in Thailand. If I wire the money from the USA the day or so before applying in Washington how do I then have a guarantee from the Thai bank. Or should I do this from my USA bank while still in Thailand but then the guarantee would be a week or two before the application in USA.

I am a resident of Florida so my official visa application site is the Thai Embassy in Washington--is this preferred to one of the 'honorary consulates'. It does state on Thaivisa.com that it is best to apply for an O-A visa from your home country (where I will be in a few months anyway) as opposed to Laos or in Bangkok or Nong Khai.

Thanks for all the help.

For the Personal Data Form go to:

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

Click on "Consular Services"

Click on "Visa"

Click on "RETIREMENTS FOR PERSON 50 YEARS OR OVER"

Then scroll to the bottom of that page and click on

"Additional Application Form for Non-Immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay)" which is in PDF form.

Re your question about the bank. If you apply in the USA for an O-A you don't need anything from Thailand. That is, all documentation is generated from US sources. You request that someone at your bank or a branch thereof, authorized to do so, simply write a brief letter on the bank's letterhead stating that your account number has XXX amount of dollars in it as of the close of the prior business day. This seems to meet the requirement for what the Thai Embassy calls "a letter of guarantee". You'll also need to submit a copy of your most recent bank statement along with that letter when you submit your application.

If you get the O-A in the USA you don't have to have money in a Thai bank until you approach the time, a year later, to have your stay renewed for another 365 days. But you do have to have your Thai bank document that the money came from outside Thailand and wiring the money seems to be the easiest way to do that from what I've read. I already had a Thai bank account when I set up the wire transfer agreement with my US bank but that's a separate issue from the visa application documentation.

I think you'd be fine using the Embassy in DC. I only used an Honorary Consulate because I lived in California and Los Angeles will almost never issue a retirement visa, so I had to look elsewhere.

In your particular situation, being in Thailand now on a 60 day tourist visa and being up country, it might be easier for you, since you're going back to the US anyway to get the O-A there. But, for most folks it's probably easier, if they've entered Thailand on a O visa, to obtain the retirement visa in Thailand.

-redwood

A very detailed reply Redwood...thank you very much. On arrival in the LOS were you granted a one year stay ?

Yes, a one year stay on arrival at Don Muang.

(BTW, I've sent you a PM re the Honorary Consulate location.)

-redwood

How much did the O/A cost and how long did it take ? Police clearances medical certificate etc required ?

US$125 for a multiple entry O-A.

Used the police department in the small town in N. California where I was living for the criminal record clearance. They have a standard form for that purpose and it only took about 20-30 minutes waiting time. Cost was $5.

I gave my personal physician the list of diseases and he had his office staff type a letter on his letterhead and he signed it. No charge but I was a long time patient of his.

Took about a week to get my O-A visa from the day I mailed the application and documentation until I received my passport back.

This Consulate also requires a copy of an airline ticket to Thailand (or a copy of the internet confirmation for an e-ticket). Might be a bit of a problem for some because you have to pick a departure date. I barely got all my affairs in order before leaving. I used a one-way ticket.

Most time consuming was getting my bank to type up a letter stating my balance at closing on the date prior to my mailing the application for the visa. One branch officer made it clear she didn't want to deal with it, so I went to another (larger) branch and got it done there.

I lived in California and had previously tried to obtain the O-A through the Los Angeles Consulate. This met with failure as it has for most applicants there. I then heard about using one of the Honorary Consulates and that's what I did. I wasn't sure they'd accept an application from a California resident as Los Angeles supposedly has jurisdiction over in-state applicants but there was no problem at all.

I'm not sure how wise it is to mention the Consulate I used but I will gladly tell anyone who wants to PM me. They're very well organized. On request they send out an application packet and a set of instructions.

One guy I've talked to said he applied in person and it took 5 minutes to get the visa!

-redwood

Yes, the Personal Data Form and the Visa Application form are two separate items.

Also, if you don't already have a wire tranfer agreement set up with your bank in the US, you'll likely want to do this next time you're there.

-redwood

If you're in Bangkok (though it sounds as if you may be in Nong Khai) go to Suan Plu and see Kuhn Pallop who, I believe, is in room 303. He has in the past changed 60 day tourist visas to NI-O visas which can then be use to obtain the retirement visa. He's a nice guy and will tell you exactly what you need in terms of documentation. You will need 800K baht in a Thai bank, i.e. he will not accept any monthly income to meet the financial requirements. (This was my experience last year when I applied.) Other officers at other immigrtion offices will accept monthy income to meet at least part if not all of the financial requirements.

Re your initial question, if you go to the Thai Embassy website

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

Go to "Consular Services" then "Visa" then "Requirements for persons 50 years....."

And scroll to the bottom of the page for the Personal Data Form.

Re the notarization question, I don't see any mention of anything needing to be notarized to obtain an O-A visa on the Embassy website. The LA Consulate does require notarization. I'd call the Embassy if you decide to get the O-A in the USA. I got my O-A at one of the honorary consulates in the US and no notarization was required by them.

-redwood

Per an email response to my query yesterday BUPA does not insure beyond age 65.

There's a website for Tricare at:

http://www.tricare.osd.mil/

-redwood

Taking a car from Thailand into Laos was discussed on another board some months ago and as I recall it was a hassle with paperwork & money required on both sides of the border.

-redwood

I've corresponded with 3 guys who've received O-A visas within the last 3 months.  One said he only received a 3 month entry, which he thought at the time was correct.  BUT, when he went to Pattaya immigration to get the stay extended to a full year he was told that the official at Don Muang had made an error in only giving him 90 days and that he would have to go to Suan Plu in Bangkok to get the proper entry made as Bangkok was responsible for the actions of Don Muang immigration.  Pattaya then said given the circumstances they would forward his passport to Suan Plu and he wouldn't have to deal with it personally  :-)

The second guy said that on presenting his passport with the O-A visa at Don Muang the official called over a supervisor and after a discussion he was given a full year.  The 3rd was given a year without incident.

I'd think they don't see all that many O-A visas and some of the less experienced immigration officials simply don't know how to deal with them.

BTW, the first guy tells me he does not have to transfer funds (800,00 baht) into a Thai bank until shortly before he applies for the 1st extention of his O-A visa at the one year mark.  If you were meeting the financial requirments by a combination of income + money in a Thai bank account you'd likely have to show money being deposited into the account from outside Thailand on a regular basis during the year prior to requesting the 1st annual extention.  

-redwood

Lance, are you obtaining an O-A retirement visa from the New York Consulate or obtaining an non-immigrant O visa with the intent of applying for a retirement visa once you arrive in Thailand?

-redwood

BTW dont forget the new US Machine Readable Passport rules in order to use the visa waiver scheme kicks in on Oct 1, if you want to visit the US and only have one of the old hand written ones you will have to get a visa or else a new Machine Readable one.

This has been postponed until Oct. of 2004.

Farangchopthai, thanks very much for the update on the current situation at Pattaya Immigration.  An e-mail friend also indicates that Pattaya has recently been very relaxed re the issuance of retirement visas.

Also, another acquaintance got a retirement visa at Suan Plu (Bangkok Immigration) within the past 2 weeks using an O visa and said the process was very straightforward and the officials were very helpful.  Though I believe he used an 800K bank deposit to meet the financial requirement.

From what he said there appear to be some changes in personnel and the way the application is handled as compared to my experience in April, May and June of this year.  He initially dealt with two women who then sent him on to an older grim woman - who in fact turned out to be very nice.  He apparently did not deal with Kuhn Pallop who seemed to be the primary officer issuing retirement visas earlier this year.

-redwood

Remember that the Immigration were probably being

Ultra strict will Redwood because he entered the Kingdom on a Tourist Visa

Hence our advice to you to make sure you have an O-A Visa

Roger, I hadn't thought of this and this may be the case although there was never any hint that my having a tourist visa was part of the problem.  He essentially ignored the option of using pension income as a part of the process - i.e. when I brought up the possibility it seemed as if to him the option simply didn't exist.

I agree that "Gammy" should obtain an O-A in UK.

I'm currently in California and I'm going to apply for an O-A  as I think I've found a way to avoid the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles which has a reputation of being very user unfriendly.

-redwood

In my conversations with Kuhn Pallop at Suan Plu Immigration in Bangkok earlier this year, he will only issue a retirement visa with 800K baht in a Thai bank.  He will not allow the use of any part of a pension in the process.  On the other hand he was allowing application using a 60 day tourist visa and then changing that to an O visa without the applicant having to leave Thailand to obtain an O visa.

As "jonwilly" indicates the authorities in Chiang Mai have a differing approach to the financial requirements.

-redwood

A few days ago I wrote:

".......e-mail friend in UK had obtained an O-A retirement visa in London and he was under the impression that he could ship goods without paying duty.  Not true according to my source."

I''ve since learned the Brit with the O-A visa was charged 18,000 baht in duty on a computer and small number of other personal belongings which he shipped to Thailand.  He used a shipping agent to clear customs and duty was "negotiated" down to 10,000 baht.

-redwood

In March of this year I spoke to an American who has been working in Bangkok in the freight business for about 8 years and he told me that I could not import personal belongings into Thailand duty free without a work permit.

He said he and his American wife were fortunate in that she has changed jobs several times during their stay and with each job change she obtained a new work permit and they were able to ship additional items into Thailand without paying duty.

This question arose because an e-mail friend in UK had obtained an O-A retirement visa in London and he was under the impression that he could ship goods without paying duty.  Not true according to my source.