Morch

Could be a bit more to it. Thai workers were basically brought in to replace Palestinian workers.

Yeah - so even if the world puts up with it, unclear is Israelis would. A lot of them may be all gung ho about it now. As a long term proposition, including occupation and management of the Gaza Strip, not so much. Been there done that. The media has a lot more power in what? How?

I don't think failure to meet goals would necessarily be a 'defeat' as such, but could certainly be painted so. Israel will not 'end' even if nothing happens and things remain as they are. This is not currently a situation in which Israel is faced with utter destruction or anything.

Two weeks ago @thaibeachlovers 's Cato line was 'reap what they sow' (aimed at Israel). Now it's some waffle about the world watching.

Returning to the OP.... So Israel air raids have been going on for more than two weeks now, the IDF called up a massive number of reservists, civilians in relevant areas evacuated. A whole lot of talk about objectives, readiness, threats and so on - but no ground assault. According to various media reports, the IDF says it's ready to go in, and that further delays would cause issues - Hamas getting more time to prepare, global support might wane, and reservists can't be kept in uniforms forever. The government (or in effect, Netanyahu) seems to have a different take on things. Regardless of his forceful public messages, what Netanyahu actually broadcasts is indecision (a trait) and distrust of the army (possibly merited). But regardless, his main focus seems to be about his own political survival in the aftermath of the crisis. There are quite possibly issues with the IDF's readiness and ability to deliver. While the army insists there are no real shortages of equipment etc., many reservists tell a different story. If there are indeed no shortages, then apparently issues exist with the logistics of getting them to the right place. Not a good sign. The goals set by Israeli politicians are ambitious, even if factoring for statements made for public consumption. More serious commentaries by former generals, and military pundits suggest that even a more limited version of this would be hard to accomplish and might take months if not more. In any case, the IDF itself concedes such operations will result in many Israeli casualties. While the Israeli public may be all for it now - it's anyone's guess as to whether perceptions will change during a prolonged operation, and with body bags coming back from the Gaza Strip. The USA seems worried about too about the IDF's ability to meet mission goals, and those mission goals not being realistic. Maybe their input and position are key, and maybe less so - no idea. Another military element that needs considering is intel. Can't go to war without it, but how to trust one's intelligence services when they obviously failed miserably with regard to the Hamas attack. This is a very valid point - the answer, perhaps, is that there's no other alternative to form an assessment on. While all this is is going on, Netanyahu already shifted to (political) campaign mode. PR advisors and spokesperson placed in various relevant bodies, appointments of people to key emergency position blocked (not Netanyahu loyalists), and no expression of accepting responsibility from the man himself (as opposed to pretty much everyone else directly involved). His social media apparatus (aka 'The Poison Machine') is in full gear, either spewing home-made talking points and fake news, or raising allegations and pointing fingers at others. This often in tandem with echoing Iranian and Russian propaganda messages. All lapped up by his supporter base. The official message, to be sure, is of course, Unity.... One of these recent social media campaigns (launched as bi-partisan and anonymous, later exposed as strongly tied to Netanyahu former advisor) called for rethinking or calling off the ground assault. All of this raises questions as to how committed the Israeli government is, and whether the policies announced so far are for real, or just another smokescreen for Netanyahu's benefit. There are worries expressed that it will all boil down to a prisoner exchange, and a return to the previous paradigm.

Hamas releases 2 more hostages as war with Israel continues https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-releases-2-more-hostages-as-war-with-israel-continues/ar-AA1iIqGz Released two elderly women, kept their husbands in captivity.

It usually takes a day or two for some reports to get translated. Expect clips of interviews with Hamas terrorists taken captive will be on soon enough.

I get the PR angle, but honestly - who cares what they think. It's not like most of them have much insight into these matters.

Many posters go on about international law, war crimes, crimes against humanity and so on. Many perceptions of what these actually are seem to be based on presumptions, wishful thinking, misleading comments by politicians and reporters, quoting bits which aren't law itself, but interpretations or simply not reading the fine print. If it helps some, let me put it this way - the actual function of these 'restrictions' is to to make sure potential wars between industrialized, advanced, powerful nations and their counterparts do not go over the top. With all the caveats and loopholes included, they aim to protect civilians, but also to allow such countries the freedom to act. They are, indeed, not to the benefit of weaker, less advanced armies and nations. Reasons for this can be described as either a measure of deterrence, or preserving a power imbalance. Their presentation as being solely focused on human rights etc. rather than being a manual of the rules of war, is IMO, intentional.

If you take these topics as an example, its rather more prevalent than that.

I'm aware that you' are trolling, but nevertheless - how does putting so many people of ignore (or claiming to) relates to this 'listening' thing?

This is exactly the reason why we have access to posting histories. You banked a whole lot of denial and nonsense on the initial NYT report, despite mounting evidence. Now that they issue and apology for that, you still waffle. As for 'keyboard warriors' - had a look in the mirror lately? And what is your claim, exactly? That you do not make mistakes? That you tend to apologize when they are pointed out? You, a whole lot of posters who are 'pro-Palestine' went for this like its gold. Same globally, especially in the Arab and Muslim world. Preaching now about not accepting things at face value is disengenious, if unsurprising. Don't see your posts on here as displaying much patience, avoid leaping to conclusions or waiting for facts. Do make it known when you come to your senses and change your opinion.

No, it isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Welle https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dw-news/

You have little insight as to what Gazans thing, or how they feel. Let's start by putting things in perspective - Hamas get's 50% support on a good day. These aren't good days. If people were as supportive as Hamas as you are, they'd stay put in North Gaza. Most did not. Maybe they didn't like this coming from leaders living in luxury far away. Hamas will need to survive this in order to reap any 'benefits'. Obviously, for you, the death toll this political point scoring entails, is nothing. Hamas can be defeated in the sense it will not present a serious threat. I don't think there's any illusions as to what you falsely keep implying. That you co-opt all Palestinian people for the Hamas cause is cute, but not supported by much.

Hamas could release the hostages to secure such a ceasefire.

The other main outfit is Islamic Jihad - more extreme in nature, generally considered more closely associated with Iran. Several other smaller ones affiliated with either. And always a few IS clone cells that the larger firms crush fearing competition.

How is Biden (and the USA) expanding the conflict? Did Biden call on other nations to militarily intervene? Did the USA carry out attacks against anyone in this current war? Amusing that you talk about 'hypocrisy' while referring to Al Jazeera, or buying comments from Iranian officials wholesale.

There is no genocide, and no 'genocidal intent' other than in your imagination. If Israel was bent on that, casualty figures would be way higher. Civilians get killed in wars. No confusion, and I was responding to a comment you made on this topic. How is that 'losing track'? I wasn't suggesting that a tall. You were (and are) apparently suggesting that what we're witnessing is the product of some US (and now UK) strategy carried out by Israel. You do not provide support for that, and you deny that the same could be seen on conflicts all over the world, whether or not the US, UK and Israel are involved. Either you're not making yourself very clear, or perhaps it is you that got confused by your own faulty 'argument'.

Several poster cannot read a topic and follow an exchange. If they can, and still come up with something as posted above, it's all the more sad. Hypocrisy how? Do you think that Iran and Hezbollah getting more heavily involved would be a positive development? You desire more death and destruction? Or were you talking about your own hypocrisy? Hard to follow your twisted train of thought sometimes.

The point was Hamas did not invest in the desalination facility, nor built it. You can't deal with it, hence the deflection. As for the rest of your nonsense - how does Hamas 'defend' the Gaza Strip? Do tell. Does Israel normally attack the Gaza Strip without Hamas going on the war path first? Does Hamas invest effort and funds to protect citizens? Bomb shelters? Relocating facilities away from civilians? Strive to end these conflagrations as quick as possible? Let citizens evacuate? Defend Gaza how?

It is incorrect that all of the South of Gaza was declared a 'safe zone'. Specific areas within were. Whether or not people who were actually in these zones (as opposed to nearby, or generally in the South) were killed (and more specifically, targeted) - I'm not sure. Why bother moving? Because regardless of your comments, there's a marked difference in the intensity of the Israeli attacks in the North of Gaza and in the South. Also, if and when the ground assault starts, Israeli forces would reach the North, rather than the South. Not too complicated without blinkers on. The hospitals, by now, cannot be evacuated. Wonder why Hamas didn't think about it beforehand? What does Al Jazeera say? Anyway, they are not directly bombed by Israel as far as I'm aware.

Murder implies intent. That would as in the Hamas attack. Israel does not target children. But considering that as a Hamas supporter, you need to push a narrative - it's quite obvious why you won't make the distinction, and why you accept casualty figures issued by Hamas as accurate.

That's an over the top generalization And that's a too wide brush denial. Many of them do, not all.

There's not much of dispute, by now. Hamas produced no evidence to counter allegation. Nada. Available evidence support Israel's version. Unless you think the aliens did it, and got proof, I suggest your go back to informing the forum what Al Jazeera reports (or better yet, not).

They did the same with Israelis. Speaking in Hebrew to make them come out or open doors. Plenty of Thai workers in the area, Hamas would have been aware of that.