Morch

You are shooting for a strong differentiation between Hamas and the Palestinian people. Hamas is a hybrid organization - it's a terrorist outfit, a political party and a provider of social services. On various opinion polls Hamas gets a hefty chunk of voter support - not a majority, but usually doing better than the competition. So the disconnect you're after (for obvious reasons) is not there. It doesn't make every Palestinian into a Hamas member/supporter, not even all Gazans. But the attempt to minimize Hamas role in Palestinian society and politics is simply unacceptable. Let me add this - following the initial Hamas attack there were mobs of Gazans pouring through to Israel, looting and murdering. Thousands. At the time hostages were brought into Gaza crowds followed vehicles carrying them cheering (and worse). There were celebrations all over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Small mercies, etc.

It is irrelevant only in your mind. Reality works in different ways. Civilians are not 100% legally protected from harm in war situations. Deal with it.

There are numerous topic discussing related issues, no need to start a new thread. Pick one, any one. There is no genocide. Genocide is something on a whole different level. Cut the hyperbole.

Civilians get killed on wars. Under some conditions, this is not even a war crime. Let me give you a bit of reality. Hamas instigated this knowing the consequences. There was not attempt to protect the civilian population. There were even calls for them to remain in place and die for the cause, not to mention attempts to stop them from evacuating. All you and others go on about is Israel Bad. Not a whole lot of angst and rage over the decisions of leadership to sacrifice its own people.

What's clear is that's not quite what you originally claimed.

As far as I can tell, none of the polls on the links above supports your original claim about the alleged "60% of Americans polled support the Palestinians".

It was (and is) unpopular with the opposition, but still commands a majority in parliament. Whether or not this will change remains to be seen. This has nothing to do with your comment, though. The Shalit case was (a) not preceded by a barbarian attack resulting in over a 1000 deaths, and (b) was controversial. The PM at the time, btw, was Netanyahu. I don't know if it's 'acceptable', I know it's the decision made. I can understand the reasons for it, and also why some would be against it. I doubt that doing nothing would be helpful, though. Oh, so you blame the Hamas attack on the IDF? That's cool. Try harder. Maybe like consider whether it's alright for Hamas to sacrifice Gazan lives.

Got there with less aggro, and let her come to the (correct) conclusion I'm no good at it. Wanted to get the help so that she's work less and moan less. Alas...

"It's only for PR of the Israeli government coalition : Likud, Ultra Religious and Ultra Right. If it was a democratic center-left government : no bombings would happen knowing that you reach nothing, except genocide." The current right wing government was joined by a major centrist party for the duration of the war. Your assertion that a center-left government (even if that was even an option) would react in a significant different way is nonsense. If anything, such a government would be under more public pressure to act, courtesy of a right-wing opposition. "Gaza could have been surrounded (like it is now) and let the hostages out by negotiations. All these civilians killings are not needed." So, in effect, reward the Hamas. You'd like that, sure.

I could have missed it, but did not notice anything about a poll. If it was there, it was apparently not a major point of discussion. If I'm wrong, you're welcome to correct me.

A better solution which you cannot comment on. Not even point in the general direction of.

Clips posted earlier on topic show large stockpiles of Hamas gear, ammo and arms captured after the attack.

I was under the impression the comments before were about support among American Jews. You do not provide a link. You do not know if how the poll question was phrased. You do not know the date of the poll. What was your point, again?

I was commenting on the last part of the post I replied to. Do you really need to start pointless arguments on each and every topic?

Now, if we only had more Palestinians with a similar set of values, maybe this would go anywhere.

Mrs. wont have that. Too many husbands of friends succumbing to the charms of young maids. I said 'get a hag, then, I don't mind'. She feels that would be like having a MIL (living with us already) clone, so 'no thanks you'. Can't win.

Maybe, but I don't think there's a wholesale shift in support when it comes to the current situation. Not in the context of current events, at least. This will surely come, but maybe a while yet.

That boat already sailed when Hamas leadership said 'sacrifices will be required', from the safety and comfort of their luxury hotels.

I base my comment on what you post. And post after post you decline to address certain issues - such as Hamas being a mainstream force in Palestinian society and politics, Hamas being responsible (at least in part) for the suffering of the people of Gaza and so on. Hamas is not some minor, fringe, low public support group. The full differentiation between Palestinians and Hamas, Gazans with Hamas is not a thing. This is not some outside, alien group. You cannot deal with that, so you deflect. Like many so-called Palestinian supporters, you can go on and on about Israel, Israeli politics, social issues and whatnot. Somehow similar knowledge is not often put on display when it comes to the side you 'support'. Kinda odd, that. The PA didn't want to hold elections on some occasions, Hamas derailed the effort on others. It's not a one-sided proposition. One basic issue, that related to your comment is this - Hamas is designated a terrorist organization in the USA (and other countries). Expecting them to continue dealing (as in, for instance, aid budgets and funds) with the Palestinians as usual is not realistic. No aid budgets and funds, means an almost immediate collapse of Palestinian society, government and the rest. That's one reason Hamas keeps playing the double game of claiming to be the legitimate government, while in effect letting the PA deal with the outside world. The USA acknowledged the PA (or rather, the PLO as representing the Palestinians people) based on several commitments - among them recognition of Israel, keeping the peace and so forth. Hamas would have none of that, so having it at the helm could certainly cause issues vs. the USA (and other countries).

You are going on and on about what Israel should not do. When asked how to address the situation, you just reply with the same. There are no wars in which civilians are not effected. For all intents and purposes, you wish for a magic solution. There is none.

That's not what you're on about. You're suggesting a wholesale excuse. You can't debate actual points made.

Not so much 'blame' as pointing out facts. If there's 'blaming' involved, it's more towards those who deny reality and make all Palestinian failure to be about Israel and other outside forces. In the same way, I'm not 'accusing' you of hijacking, I'm pointing out a fact. You're trying to push a certain angle. It does not directly relate to my post. Not complicated.

Actually try to address what I said instead of hijacking my post.

No, that would be you framing things to fit a bogus argument. Some (or even many) comments focus on who started it, others do not. Anyway, referencing directly involved parties is one thing, your far fetched historical what if's are another.