Orac

So if I kill some one,then give my self up to the police,say I am sorry then I will not have to go to jail. It's like monopely "do not go to jail do not collect £200 ", or has she got a" get out of jail free card"???

are you 16??

"If a land demarcation is clear, and the other side encroaches upon our territory, there will be shootings [in defence],'' he said.

Good job the cambodians aren't so bloodthirsty or Thailand would be short of an MP!

Crashed Honda lent out

By The Nation

The sedan driven by the underage girl involved in a tollway accident that killed nine van passengers last week belongs to a woman who owns a garage and lent it to a third person, police said yesterday.

Witchuta Worrakhajit has been summoned by police for an interview about her ownership of the white Honda Civic, which was registered in Phuket but brought to Bangkok. Police will also question her about her relation to the third person and the underage girl.

Allowing cars to be driven by underage persons is a crime, punishable by imprisonment and fines. The penalties are higher in cases in which accidents occur.

A witness said Witchuta was rarely present at her garage on Lat Phrao Road, and that the Honda was among many cars she lent to garage clients free of charge during repairs of their vehicles.

-- The Nation 2011-01-08

The Thot Plickens.

Does this possibly mean that the girls car was in for repairs?

edit: ie her parents knew she was driving, but didn't necessarily know it was someone else's car.

Or, to speculate even further, the girls car was in for repair because it had been damaged in a previous accident????

Amazing they let 9/10 yr olds ride motor bikes with no skidlids with 3or4 as passengers and let 16/17 year olds drive motors cars but not be allowed to buy smokes untill they are 20.

Like they say.

THAILAND TRULY AMAZING

I think you missed the difference between what the law is and what ppl actually do here.

Guy stabbed and in serious condition.Hospital just a 100 meters away but they decide to take him to the nearby memorial hospital that's about 3 kilometers away?

Which hospital is within 100m of Soi 2 near BigC ?

I assume he is refering to PIH - Pattaya International on Soi 4

Cool! I just love a parade!

Wish they had advertised it better so i could have taken the family down.

Bag snatchers or opportunistic theives - since it appears the bag had been left unattended it hardly seems like a snatching???

The girl was underage for driving. The girl didn't have a Thai or otherwise legal driver's license. The girl herself has admitted she was speeding. The Thai police, based on whatever inquiry and knowledge they have, have said they're going to file criminal charges against her for causing or at least contributing to the crash.

In my home country, I got my driver's license at age 16 - and drove from then on - as did most young people in my country. So - Driving at age 16 - in itself - does not strike me as big problem. At what age can young people obtain a driver's license in your country? Her age is not in itself a proximate cause of any harm - so I don't see the point in hanging her because she is 16 years old (or 17, or whatever her age really is)

It is not clear to me that the girl has no license to drive - just that she is not licensed to drive in Thailand. That is certainly not good thing, given that she was driving. Again, in itself, driving without a license is not a capital offense. I would think that if she is licensed to drive in another country, and has substantial experience driving legally elsewhere, it might influence my opinion. It is not clear to me whether she has legal driving experience elsewhere. You seem to be absolutely certain that she is not legally licensed to drive elsewhere. You may be right. I have heard otherwise, but not from an unimpeachable source.

I think it is appropriate for the police to file charges against a suspect driver in a multi-homicide accident. that does not mean that the accused party is guilty. If you are so knowledgeable, please cite for me the exact citations in the charges filed against the Civic driver. I'll bet you don't know - so you are just making it up as you go. The charges may be "speeding" and "driving without a valid driver's license". So - in the big picture of crime in Thailand, just how significant are such charges?

Did either driver have alcohol in their blood? I have no idea - do you? Were all brakes, lighting systems, turn signals, etc. working properly on both vehicles?

Have you ever personally ridden in a Thai commuter van in Bangkok? I used to commute daily from Victory Monument to Chaeng Wattatna and back, in a nine-passenger van. Same commuter line, but maybe different vehicles and drivers, day to day. I'll tell you that I saw substantial bad driving, and I also rode is vans that had inoperable lights, broken windows, partially disintegrated windshield wipers, etc. I also saw good drivers, and clean, tidy vans. I suggest that you go down to Victory Monument, and just walk around and look at the vans. I'll bet you come back with a little more insight into just how likely it is that the van may have been less than pristine, and that the driver may have been less than blameless.

The Civic driver may have been the incarnation of evil, reckless, wanton behavior. But - I have seen and heard nothing to suggest that.

If I heard that a 16 year old girl was picked up for speeding, and driving without a valid license, nearby, it would not particularly even hold my attention. If I then heard that she was discovered because she was in a collision - it still would not grab my attention. I would not automatically assume that the girl CAUSED the accident. The fact that this scenario unfolded - and that people died in that accident - does not suddenly drive me to assume causality.

Co-occurrence does not necessarily mean causality - except, evidently, for you.

IS

All very well but you are forgetting that she must be guilty with a name like that????

"The tobacco industry in Thailand is estimated to be worth between Bt60 billion and Bt70 billion a year, with the State Tobacco Monopoly having a market share of 75 per cent."

Surely a conflict of interest here since the TTM is controlled by the ministry of finance and has a remit to increase revenues???

They may have to cut back on all the good work they are doing with children and in schools!

"Education:

Scholarships, educational buildings, books and educational equipment are provided, along with support for educational promotion activities for schools and institutions. Academic community projects and learning in a virtual world on the website: WWW.SKOOLBUZ.com (2009-2011 Fiscal Years).

Sports

The Government has a policy for state enterprises to support sports activities under the 1 Sport 1 State Enterprise Project. Consequently, TTM supports the Swimming Association of Thailand within our support for 3 years (2009-2011 Fiscal Years) with a budget of 15 million baht per year."

http://www.thaitobacco.or.th/eng/customize/6-0-2037.html

"More than Soi Disgusting: The Flintstone Sierra Tango boozer (Soi Kow Noi) is just one of a string of similar places designed to relieve the pent-up emotions of the denizens of the Dark Side, and any visitors who care to wander into the eastern reaches of Fun Town. The Flintstone is one of those more brightly lit dine and dash establishments that can be relied upon to have eight or nine exponents of the art of the one-eyed trouser snake handshake. The prices for a lie down do seem over the top with the bar fine at 300 baht and the damsel asking 1,000 baht to reveal her horizontal mattress skills."

Would love to comment on this but TV rules don't allow me I understand????

I think I understand so much more now, about everything. But to confirm, can Thais or anyone with an in-depth knowledge of Thai family culture please let me know the answer to this question (or their opinion):

At what age does Thai culture generally believe marks the turning point from childhood to adulthood?

A difficult question since there does not appear to a defining cultural ceremony, such as the Bar Mitzvah that the Jewish have at 12/13, that I can see - maybe, as you say, someone with more cultural knowledge can advise??

One might use the marriage laws as an example which, from Wiki, are:

Thailand: 20, 17 with parental consent, 15 in special circumstances with court approval. Note: The hill tribes follow traditional rules, as 12 for female be found

This would indicate that, for certasin hill tribes view 12 as the age of adult responsibility.

The problem with using cultural/historic details is that, in modern society, we live a lot longer and put far more value on childhood and education than has happenned in olden days. Maybe this is part of the problem here in that where most of the 'western world' has moved on and increased the age of adult responsibility it has not been fully recognised culturally by all which is reflected in some of the odd age laws for marriage and sexual consent along with others that we see for some countries.

the girl just entered matayom ton and is 12 years old

Oh that is just sheer madness. 15 would be madness. 12 is just...

At least with 2-wheelers, god forbid should she make that almost surely inevitable mistake...the potential impact (on others) is drastically reduced.

What a world we live in. Responsible, intelligent adults are nannied in insulting fashion by the state...which allows a culture in which the above is widely acceptable.

It's all so ridiculous.

12 is unfortunately still normal for many Thais to start to drive motorcycle. My first wife here was taught to drive motorcycle at school at the age of 12, by her teacher

Now that was 29 years ago though

Sadly I can't think of any 12 year olds in our small village that can't/don't ride a motorbike.

... Snip

Now we can consider the broader context namely the culture of impunity for the rich and privileged, and in my mind more interestingly why this incident has aroused so much passion at this particular time.

....Snip

The cultural issues are that road laws are ignored by the vast majority, not just the rich and priveledged. I am sure that because of her name/position in society this has got far more column inches than if it had been an 'unknown' poor person but the looming tragedy here is no lessons are going to be learnt and this is going to be viewed as a class issue.

Police Maj-General Amnuay Nimmano, who is supervising the case, in response to questions about the girl's plea, said: "I ask for your permission to not go into details about that. She has acknowledged two offences and given information useful to the investigation."<BR sab="376"><BR sab="377">

Says it all doesn't it.

Certainly does. Which century does this guy think he is in not releasing details to the media. How on earth are we suppose to pass judgement on this case and pontificate wisely if we aren't given the facts.

.....snip

I was back in the village over New Year, a neighbour further down the (dirt) road had bought a Honda Scoopy for her 15 year old daughters birthday that she will use to drive the 17 kilometers (on main inter-city road) from the village to her school in amphur muang and back again every school day for 3 years without a licence. This is so common among the poor that if it were to stop suddenly, then it would put a visible dent in the GDP... I'm not saying that it shouldn't be stopped of course, but punishment must be suitable for the poor as well as the rich

....snip

This is a different scenario though to what has happenned here - it is one thing to be driving underage and a different thing to be driving withough a licence. If your neighbours daughter could be bothered to get a motorcycle licence which she is entitled to do at 15 then she would be driving legally.

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. &lt;deleted&gt;. Is this some translation error?

Yes. It's a translation error. It should have said "drink whiskey".

Obviously the humour didn't translate too well for you either.

What is more worrying is that only that part was questioned????

As far as groups chartering buses that already have passengers, yes, that happens. But often it happens when if the charterers would wait an extra minute or two they could easily find a totally empty bus to ask. Because of this, I must say I have pretty sour feelings about the selfish behavior of those trying to "hijack" an engaged bus.

Here's another one like in the OP. Let's say you take a bus from Carrefour west hoping to go to Walking Street, but it turns towards Big C instead at 2nd road. In that case, there is often a way to ask the driver where he is going with sign language pointing but most people including me just get on the bus and hope for the best. In those cases, that is a grey area kind of, but I think you should pay the 10 baht, but I also think they would usually be OK with 5 baht, understanding if you got of at the 2nd road turn, that he didn't go where you expected.

Was on a baht bus the other day which was almost full and some Indians were enquiring about a charter. Very annoying when as you say they could wait for an empty one.

My take is you should always pay even if they deviate off the route. This is especially so if you live in Pattaya as these guys may well remember you . It just ain't worth any aggravation over 10 baht.

In fairness, it is not always easy to see that a baht bus has passengers or not when you are flagging one down. Also, when you realise that there are passengers on there and try and wave them on the driver is aware that he is missing a charter opportunity and sometimes makes a bit of a fuss.

I believe you must be at least 18 years old to get a car driving license here. That sounds reasonable to me. In most USA states it's 16. In New Zealand it is 15 although they are considering changing it to 16. 15 and 16 is most definatley too young in my opinion to be driving a car.

But what about motorbikes. I asked the other day in a Honda dealer and the owner said 18.

I remember many years ago going with my then 15-year-old son to get him a motorbike license that was valid for up to 90cc, within city limits and not single or double digit numbered roads. The license only mentioned in writing however the 90cc restriction. Above that they said he would have to wait till he was 18.

Even at that time it was difficult to find him a bike less than 90cc but eventually I did.

Nowadays there seems nothing under 110cc meaning that kids don't get the chance to learn some road sense on a small motorbike on small roads.

I started, legally, riding a motorcycle at 15 and consider myself a far better car driver now because of it. With both car and motorcycle ages being the same the danger is for those that can afford it to jump straight into a car and never experience motorbike riding.

I found a 3 year old thread on here yesterday that said 15 for up to 110cc until 18 but couldn't see anything mnore official - it was quoting from 'The Thai Highway Code' whatever that is???

Is it even possible for a Thai teenager to go to America and get a drivers license? Why would she need one? I think this rumor is bogus

Can't see why not - as I understand it you need to be of the legal age for the state and need proof that you are not in the country illegally. Some states, South Dakota for example, state that you can have a licence at 14.

I personally hate shopping and therefore my wife, who for some reason cannot go out without buying something, has ended up buying most of my clothes. Unfortunately she prefers 'value for money' so rather than look like a over the hill surfer I tend to have more of a refugee appearance.

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

A very pertinent observation, I would add that most of the driving techniques learned by the average Thai driver is purely what they observe around them. Thus the sins of the older Thais are perpetuated by the younger.

But in this specific case it was mentioned (not sure of the definitive source though) that she holds a US driving licence which would suggest that, although still driving illegally here as she is underage for Thailand, she has possibly had more instruction in driving techniques than the average Thai.

"Government spokesman Panithan Wattanayakorn said Panich had told Abhisit that he would visit the border area in Prachin Buri province."

Can someone else help me out here as I was not aware that Prachin Buri had a border area???

Following my 1st post approx 1hr ago I am back to follow up my interest and make a comment I have what I call my wife and her daughter 14yrs old they both ride a motor bike the wife wears a skid lid all the time the young wears hers until she is out of my sight

when I ask why she takes the skid lid off she pretends not to understand which angers me. I have now come to the conclusion that I am wasting my breath but see,ing how I have not seen many of her school chums 3/4 on a bike without skid lids and BIBs outside the school allowing this I now understand that there is not much LAW in Thailand.

As posts have stated the BIBs are only interested in TEA MONEY. In the 4yrs I have been here I have had a motorbike and car licence THAI I have only been spoken to by BIBs once and they only asked where I lived and that did not cost anything touch wood but I never ride a bike without my lid on I have known a few mates in the U/K who are now dead and seen many accidents here and that did not have to happen mostly because of what I call STUPIDITY .

As for the punishment of parents HOW can you Punish if there is no LAW

Surely you can impress upon a child there will be no more money forthcoming from you if she does not wear a helmet at all times when on a motorcycle.

I could be misreading this post and the child is on the bike with her mother though it did appear at first glance that she was riding it alone. If she is riding it alone surely he shouldn't be condoning this by saying it is ok if she is wearing a helmet.

Again, I could be wrong and stand ready to be corrected, but do you not have to be 15 to legally have a motorbike licence here???

I guess that's where you and I differ. You misread the Bangkok Post article by saying Abhisit ordered him into Cambodia when it didn't.

I point out where it hasn't been established yet as to who Panich was talking to or what was said and you fill in all the gaps on your own.

The title of the Nation piece - PM says he assigned Panich to inspect disputed border area - is pretty much an admission that Abhisit instructed him to go to a place that Cambodia believes is their sovereign territory which seems pretty stupid to me. That Panich went even further into what appears to be undisputed Cambodian territory doesn't let Abhisit off the hook for excercising a serious misjudgement be it for the original instruction or the person he picked to carry it out surely??

And again down to the whims of the day I think.

I had an IDL which they accepted, but I had to do the eye test and reaction AND the theory.. But I know others who only did the first 2.

Also when I went for my 5 year I had to do nothing, just took my 1 year and paperwork. Someone posted about having to do some tests to get the 5 year.

Basically it just depends on which way the winds blowing ?!?!

As you say - can be arbitary. One year car licence from Pattaya 2 weeks ago with IDP and only eye and reaction test - no movie or theory.