Orac

Therefore the West should butt out and leave Asia and the Middle East alone,

Everyone, west included should butt out. If they dont, they eventually become despised and then you get things like terrorism. Either people and societies believe in self determination or they dont. If you believe in self determinism you would be willing to stick up for a choice you didnt agree with but which was a choice of the people. Unfortunately we see mostly mass hypocrisy with silly and erroneous arguments to justify naked interference in another peoples choice.

A good point. Islam has enough divisions within it - the main ones being Sunni and Shia. Throw in the pot a handful of dictators/royal families and the region has plenty of problems to sort out for itself. Of course one solution is to provide a unifying theme that they can all get behind and forget their differences - the 'western' nations have to be very careful how they handle intervention in the region so as not to become the focal point that some are trying to make them.

"On March 8, the Democrats held a high-profile fundraising event to mark the party's 65 years. The party has yet to report to the Election Commission about the sum raised but early reports put the figure over Bt700 million."

That is a huge increase in donations for just one event whent you compare it with 1.38m for the whole of last year and 33m so far this year.

Not that I would possibly question the ability of 4 journalist from the Nation that it took to write the piece

The Iranian tantrum over human rights is also incredibly hypocritical. There are now around 90 Sharia courts in the UK the rulings they give are deemed binding under UK law (<deleted>). So if you are female and Muslim you are again a second class citizen, so much for the suffrogette who got skittled by the King's horse. They could opt not to go through Sharia courts but would no doubt end up in a bin liner under some railway embankment if they dared try. Currently, (thank God) these Sharia courts are only allowed to practice civil law, but the instant they are granted leave to try criminal cases expect Soho to be abandoned over night and a white flag to be flying over Buckingham Palace. So the race is on imho, shove Universal human rights down the throats of insane theocracies before our liberal PC brigade succeed in getting Sharia law shoved down ours.

Iranian hypocrisy indeed!

What has this to do with Iran????

As I understand it these 'courts' in the Uk are little more than a version of arbitration in civil matters that also manifest themselves in many other different formats both in the UK and throughout the world - nobody is being forced to use it and it is purely a decision between two parties that that is the way they wish a disagreement to be resolved. Personally I would not have anything to do with such an entity but, there again, I would not submit to a trial by TV in one of the many forms it takes such as Judge Judy or Judge Joe Brown.

Police issue arrest warrant for Porsche driver murderer

BANGKOK, 27 March 2011 (NNT)- Pathum Thani Police have identified the driver of a brand-new Porsche who brutally crashed into a 17 year-old. The police issued an arrest warrant after he failed to turn himself in to authorities.

Police Lieutenant Colonel Bancha Melert , inspector of the Pathum Thani Police Station and head of the investigation team for the case reveals that the driver of a brand new Porsche Cayman with a license plate of Ngo-1352 had hit a 17 year-old Laotian girl whilst crossing a road in Bang Khu Wat Muang District, Pathum Thani province.

The high-speed hit had brutally cut the gir's body in two. The driver abandoned the car in front of a construction site in Om Kret, Pak Kret, Nonthaburi, where a witness confirmed that the tall, long hair murderer called a cab and fled the area on Friday. The investigation team had gathered finger prints on the steering wheel and other evidence which indicated 58 year-old Supachai Taksintwesurb as the main suspect.

Pol. Lt. Col. Bancha suggested the murderer was not the owner of the car but a family member. The suspect had fled and was not present at the site, leaving the authorities no choice but to issue an arrest warrant for the driver.

-- NNT 2011-03-27

So reports of a young man with long black hair, fair skin with blood on his clothing getting out of a porche with license plate J-1352 and getting into a cab was incorrect. The upper body of a person being removed from the vehicle bearing license plate J-1352 as depicted in videos and pics is unrelated.

Have they located the vehicle with license plate NGO-1352 as yet?

It is not a J but a Thai letter that looks very similar - sorry but don't have thai fonts on my keyboard.

Haven't stayed there myself but I a few friends of mine have stayed in the Dynasty Inn and were quite happy with it - it is virtually next door to Nana Plaza.

Countries in the Middle East deserve the chance to determine their own governments. These popular revolutions are a sea change and the end result is uncertain, but resisting the wave is not really a realistic option.

If they didn't have all the oil or if we had a good alternative to it I would be far more comfortable .

One other thing to remember is that a lot of these countries were 'created' by the western powers in relatively modern times, often by just drawing lines on maps with little consideration for the people and tribes that lived there.

It is a civil war and we know nothing about the side that we are supporting. Now THAT is frightening.

A very good point. As CallmeScooter pointed out in another thread, the US identified Eastern Libya and Benghazi as a source of a large number of Al-Qaeda volunteers that appeared in Iraq. It would not be good if the fundementalists were able to get a foothold because of this action.

Did you read my post #9????? Or indeed the link it was taken from which you have quoted back????

Yes I did. I suggest you read your linked article too. read it closely. Here, let me help you;

Iran, the neighbouring nation also ruled by Muslim clerics was one of the fist countries to add its voice to world protests on Tuesday condemning the destruction of Buddhist statues by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and called on the United Nations to take serious action against this ruling "grouplet".

"Strangely, certain Taleban-led individuals, calling themselves "cleric"', have ordered destruction of ancient sites of the mankind society, citing blasphemy and idolising as reasons," a statement released by Iran's Cultural Heritage Organisation (CHO) said.

But the statement failed to say that like their Afghan colleagues, Iranian clerics, when they took over from the former Monarchy in 1979, had plans to destroy all vestiges of pre-Islam Iran, including the monuments of Persepolis, but were prevented by the people, attached to its ancient history and civilisation.

The fact of the matter is that the Iranian government DID not come out against the destruction of the Buddhas. The CHO was an arms length entity that had no authority to speak on behalf of the iranian government.

Hoisted by your own petard it seems.

I reread the article again, written incidentally by a organisation with no love of the current regime in Iran, and strangely enough it still said:

"Iran, the neighbouring nation also ruled by Muslim clerics was one of the fist countries to add its voice to world protests on Tuesday condemning the destruction of Buddhist statues"

which pretty seems pretty clear to me. That there is also a statement from Iran's Cultural Heritage Organisition just seems to back this up since they are a department adminstered and funded by the government of Iran.

Also I found this:

"The two massive Bamiyan Buddhas, carved into a sandstone cliff near the provincial capital in central Afghanistan, stand 50 meters (165 feet) and 34.5 meters (114 feet) tall and were built around the second century.

Appeals for their preservation have come from the United States, France, Germany, Thailand, Japan, Sri Lanka, Iran, Pakistan, Germany, Russia, India and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm

I am not sure why you think Iran would have done otherwise as it was very active against the Taliban before the US got involved with strong support to the Northern Alliance that opposed them.

"Following the emergence of the Taliban and their harsh treatment of Afghanistan's Shi'a minority, Iran stepped up assistance to the Northern Alliance. Relations with the Taliban deteriorated further in 1998 after Taliban forces seized the Iranian consulate in Mazari Sharif and executed Iranian diplomats.

Following this incident, Iran almost went to war with the Taliban regions of Afghanistan but intervention by the United Nations Security Council and the United States prevented an imminent Iranian invasion."

Taken from Wikipedia (not the most reliable of sources I admit!)

The issue here seems to be that one group of religious fundementalists are trying to bait another bunch of religious fundementalists. That Iran and Afghanistan have condemned this is hardly surprising - what seems odd is that they are singled out since the US has also condemned it.

Thank God this "broken condom" thing has never happened to me (yet) but this is an interesting thread nevertheless, and I found this online "assessment tool" to estimate the risk of HIV contraction for broken condom cases, and whether PEP would be helpful:

http://www.pep.chapsonline.org.uk/self_assessment.asp

Putting your faith in some omnipresent being that a condom won't break or believing that he provides some protection for sex-tourists sounds a touch naive to me

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-pres...tatues_1301.htm

So what if Iran did not recognize the government of Afghanistan. Did the Iranian government condemn the descreation of the world heritage site? Did the Iranian condemn the activity? The US and other western governments did not recognize the Taliban either and yet they spoke up.

Did you read my post #9????? Or indeed the link it was taken from which you have quoted back????

Some nice hate speeches there dudes!

What can be said about Christianity with looking back the last century or so?

Not a much positive.

The Times of India, March 2, 2001

NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic clerics and leaders on Friday condemned the destruction of Afghanistan's ancient Buddha statues in central Bamiyan province by the ruling Taliban regime as "un-Islamic" and "an act of cultural genocide against humanity."

"It is an outrageous act. It should be treated as a crime against humanity. Bamiyan is part of the world's cultural heritage. The destruction of Buddha statues is an act of cultural genocide against humanity," Babri Masjid movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin said. Declining to draw a parallel between the Taliban action and the destruction of the disputed structure at Ayodhya on December 6, 1992, Shahabuddin said, "here it was some groups whereas in Afghanistan, the government itself is committing the crime."

http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm

and yet none of the ones complaining have any problem with burning flags.

especially when it comes to afgan, In Afghanistan ‘they’ grow and refine heroin for a living, and, yet, have a moral objection to beer.

At the time of the giant buddhas being destroyed Iran didn't recognise the regime in Afghanistan:

"The Taleban, or movement of religious students, seized Kabul in 1996 and have imposed a puritanical mix of Pashtun tribal and Sharia law in a bid to create their idea of a true Muslim state.

Their regime is recognised only by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and is not represented at the United Nations or the Organisation of the Islamic Conference."

link as above http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/mar_2001/taleban_buddha_statues_1301.htm

Did Iran or Karzai speak out when the Taliban destroyed the 3 ancient Buddhas at the designated world heritage site? Did the condemn the desecration?

Unfortunately it's a one way street for this '' religion ''.

"Iran, the neighbouring nation also ruled by Muslim clerics was one of the fist countries to add its voice to world protests on Tuesday condemning the destruction of Buddhist statues by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and called on the United Nations to take serious action against this ruling "grouplet".

"Strangely, certain Taleban-led individuals, calling themselves "cleric"', have ordered destruction of ancient sites of the mankind society, citing blasphemy and idolising as reasons," a statement released by Iran's Cultural Heritage Organisation (CHO) said."

From http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/mar_2001/taleban_buddha_statues_1301.htm

As for Karzai, he didn't really come to prominence until after this happenned though there are several references to him condemning it after he gained power.

After a report of children being killed in Gaza here and following on from the recent slaughter of settler children in the West Bank I cannot believe you two are still argueing about the definition of Zionism without yet either condemning or even acknowledging what has happenned here.

More NEWS from Reuters:

Israel's ambassador Aharon Leshno Yaar called on Palestinian leaders to condemn the March 11 murders of three children, including a baby, and their parents "without caveats or hedging" in Arabic to their own people.

Almost as shocking as the killings, "in the days following the massacre many Palestinians took to the streets celebrating the deaths of this family," Leshno Yaar said. http://news.yahoo.co...el_un_cleansing

Not in Arabic but "despicable, inhuman and immoral" seems pretty clear to me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12730403

I wonder if this only applies giving oral sex to a man? They do specify, but the wording is not very clear.

I didn't read it that way and assumed it was an equal opportunity infection but since the main group that are getting infected are white males than that would imply it is a mainly gay issue. At least it might explain why i have survived but unfortunately JT may be on sticky ground now!

Orac, this is the reason for forums to learn, no?

And perhaps you have not noticed but there still a number of posters who do not agree with Naam findings and continue with the nonsense

in this forum i learned that "my sources" who claimed the FED is owned by rich islamist Ayrabs were not fully informed. tv-member Midas' information reveals additional information. i therefore conclude that the FED is owned by Irish Ayrabs. what i still have to find out is whether these Ayrabs are Islamists or good Irish Catholics.

Mohamed O'Greenspan - the clue was there right under our noses.

Based on performing oral sex on 6 partners in a lifetime I think it is amazing that much of the population of Pattaya is still alive - if I remember correctly I must have got my full dose within hours of arriving here the first time.

Better head down to the Bliss Lounge for some research.

By using the term infidels I would guess you are refering to the Koran. However if you hade used the term Gentiles as in 'Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog!' or 'Kill The Best Gentiles' I would have gone for the Talmud. If on the other hand you asked which book asked specifically for non-believers to be stoned to death then that would be the Bible (Deuteronomy 17:3 to 5).

ALL of these quotes need to be considered in the context they are written though they do seem to have a common thread in being used to spread hatred and intollerance.

Interesting post. For some crazy reason i was only aware that Christian and Catholic crucify while Islam stones.

You learn something new every day.

It was only yesterday that Herr Naam put you straight on who is behind the Federal Reserve!

You really should find out more about crucifiction as well.

Sorry but whose book says "kill the infidels"?

Here we go, ... again.

Whats good for the goose-good for the gander!

By using the term infidels I would guess you are refering to the Koran. However if you hade used the term Gentiles as in 'Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog!' or 'Kill The Best Gentiles' I would have gone for the Talmud. If on the other hand you asked which book asked specifically for non-believers to be stoned to death then that would be the Bible (Deuteronomy 17:3 to 5).

ALL of these quotes need to be considered in the context they are written though they do seem to have a common thread in being used to spread hatred and intollerance.

I wonder in 20 years where would be the great place for a retiree?

Well, I certainly won't be around. The way the place is going I won't be around next year even.

Thanks to them for putting the nail in the coffin. They've ruined it.

I have no idea where I'll live now. Anywhere where these people don't go sounds good. I may have to leave Thailand, sadly.

Cambodia, Philippines, and Vietnam are calling louder..

Judging from the number of Russians that are travelling abroad now in greater numbers your best bet in 20 years will probably be Russia.

Anyone notice that they don't play the Royal Anthem in the top end cinemas in Central Festival ?

I live in Buriram province and (re National Anthem) I have often been virtually the only person to stand still at 18.00 hrs in Makro ! That is OK with me - personal choice and personal awareness.

The standing still thing is mostly a Bangkok thing. (And perhaps South, I wouldn't know). In the Real Thailand people tend to go about their business, save for the occasional Farang who wants to go native but missed the target by a couple feet.

They probably stand still because they are weighed down with the mandatory wanabe amulets.

I've never heard the national anthem played anywhere other than the cinema and the TV/Radio.

Definately played at Theppasit market in Jomtien at 6pm - the look of confusion on some of the faces there (mainly Russians I think) is worth seeing!

Why do we wear underwear....

Speak for yourself mate...

On that topic - I have seen many posts here on the topic of how many people claim to be from the "Special Forces" - is this a quite understandable misunderstanding of the term "going commando?"

Is "special forces" a euphemism for no kegs, like a cocktail bar -?

SC

You mean you aren't ex special forces!

How did you manage to sneak in???

You'll be claiming you haven't got a Hi-So wife or masters degree next.

Siam Bayview is fairly central and in your price range just. Also has a babysitting service according to Agoda if you would trust such a thing that is!

Anyone notice that they don't play the Royal Anthem in the top end cinemas in Central Festival ?

I live in Buriram province and (re National Anthem) I have often been virtually the only person to stand still at 18.00 hrs in Makro ! That is OK with me - personal choice and personal awareness.

Are you sure - I have seen many films there and have always seen the kings anthem played (by top end I assume you mean the Porch and First Class Cinemas??)

As a matter of interest the only time I have seen ppl not stand for the anthem were a small group of young americans during Cobra Gold. They did eventually stand up when they realised everyone else was glaring at them.