chiang mai

Wait how long, three months, one year, three years?

You see the problem. New posters cone along every day and ask questions about tax, often it's the same old questions, time and time again. If some of us answer and help that poster by offering an opinion, trolls come along and accuse that person of "repeatedly ramming opinions down members throats", If nobody answers, the poster remains in the dark and eventually has to blow 10k on a tax accountant who quite often doesn't know much more than many members and ends up selling their services for even more. So what's the right answer? Stay quiet, don't help and throw people to the wolves because most people couldn't tell the difference between a good tax consultancy service and a bad one! Or, we could leave it to other members to answer the questions but they refuse to do so, as we've seen in this thread. It's a Catch22.

@redwood1 why not answer this poster s query and be helpful for once? I could answer but then I'll be accused of ramming my opinions down everyone's throats!

You have decided, maybe.....thousands don't even understand anything about the subject, new members ask basic questions every day. Who's going to help them, you......you haven't for the past year!

Have to say, the free tax information provided by expat tax has been exceptional.

Yes,agreed, I think that's always been the purpose of these threads is to motivate people to do just that......many have.

I don't think that's what he said, is it!

I don't know that anyone disagrees with him, I think it's more about the wider picture. Certainly, everyone should take professional advice, if they don't know the answers. And certainly, there are charlatans out there.

I read where CRS was off topic, I have some sympathy with idea that DTAs could also be, given there are 61 of them, all different. Anyway, water under bridge and ove got a garden to plant.

I read the part about DTA's taking precedent over national tax law but I thought it was discovered quite late in the day. I must go back and see if I can't figure out the sequence of events.

You signed a blank form?

I'm not sure how true that is, from what I've read of the earlier threads/posts there was an attempt to structure the arguments and issues but that process seems to have ended prematurely. I'm not suggesting that what you wrote is not true, only that I didn't see evidence of that. I've gone back to Listers tax guide several times as a point of reference and I didn't see where DTA's were given second place but I haven't read through all the early thread. What I did see and what I continue to see is some members posting against individuals rather than posting against the arguments or views they present. I have two or three posters who regularly don't comment but who simply put laughing emoji's on everything I post, that's a perfect example of the mindset involved in some of these threads. Water and ducks backs and all that.

Standard YT response....boring.

I think the video in the op overlooks or ignores several aspects of what has happened. It ignore the inevitability that as we get closer to tax filing season, the greater will be the number of people asking questions about what they are supposed to do now, even I have been asking myself that same question and I've been involved in the discussions for months. That curiosity is not the result of the debates that have taken place nor the videos. The changes made via Por 161/162 were announced far and wide over a year ago and most people will have flagged that. Everyone is now quite rightly asking, so what do we do now. The other point that has been ignored is the extent to which older less wealthy expats have been helped and their minds put at rest as a result of these threads and some of the media coverage. I've received a large number of messages from pensioners in Thailand, asking how much tax they will have to pay on income that I would guess is below average for the western expat community. Older people worry more, many of those people are on the last leg of their journey and don't have any other options for a home or for income. Leaving those people to stew and fret for a year is cruel and unnecessary, at least one spoke of self harm because of the stress and uncertainty. Being able to reassure those people and put their minds at rest, has been the main benefit of these threads, as far as I am concerned. As for the detractors and critics: the threads have seen a small number of vocal naysayers who have trolled the threads and their participants. Some are an inevitable function of social networking sites, others are anti-tax and many are anti Thai. Some have above average wealth and frustrated at the lack of clear answers and some are just plain anti-social and have too much spare time on their hands. A very small number are looking for perfection in the answers and will challenge any other comments that don't achieve that. Most if not all of the critics are the ones who have something to lose and don't want to be pulled into the tax net, not because they think it's unfair, but because they will have to pay up! The last part of all this is the extent to which the past year has finally brought Thai tax into focus for many expats, people who previously thought that tax was something they didn't have to be concerned with, in Thailand, ever! That increased awareness is a step change and has come as a shock for many. I don't know about others but I don't see that as an entirely bad thing.

Not forgetting that the taxpayer will also need to have his passport ID certified by the British Embassy, for presentation to the MoFA.

My advice to you is to get out of HFEL (Henderson Far East). It is number 5/6 in its sector and has the lowest returns of any in it, 0.9%! Morningstar gives it 2 stars! It also has a massive drawdown of 18%. A far better proposition is Schroder Oriental Income which returned 22% and has a drawdown of 13%, still high but better. https://citywire.com/funds-insider/investment-trusts/sector/equity-it-asia-pacific-equity-income-funds/i6124?periodMonths=36&utm_medium=website&utm_source=citywire_funds_insider&utm_campaign=trust-page-full-league&utm_content=c781678&expandedList=true&league=funds

The reality is that you have been successful at wearing me down with your continued criticism of my efforts to try and help members understand income tax. For me the way forward is simple, I will not post any more on tax or on any other subject on AN. For those members who have sought my help, my apologies for this change of direction, you will now have to find another source of help and information and likely pay for that service. I wish you all good luck.

There's a meanness in many of the posts that are critical of people who are genuinely trying to help, provide information and educate foreigners about tax. I saw that Lister came under attack several times from members who accused him of trying to profit or get kick backs for generating referrals, others asked if he had a work permit. I thought those things were really sad and spoke volumes about some members. I don't know about the YouTube video guys, at least one has made so many glaring errors in what he said that expat clubs in Thailand need to sit up and pay much closer attention before asking this guy to address the community because they are part of the problem.

Yes, JT, "investment" implies not cash but "investment account" can be either. A CD is nothing more than a fixed deposit or another interest bearing account, the return is known at the outset and can be calculated where as an investment in stocks, bonds or property cannot. The TRD Code has an income category 5 I believe which covers interest bearing accounts and the tax treatment of them, which are not CG.

Well, we're certainly not guessing about any income earned prior to 31/12/2023. And we're not guessing about savings interest earned overseas since then. All that remains to be uncertain is the treatment of capital gains earned either before or after 31/12 2023.

Yes

If the funds in the brokerage account were all in cash (mine are sometimes) then there is no issue. I used the example of a house, the same applies to any form of invested capital that comprises a capital gain.

That is correct, mostly, but the funds must be in cash as of that date. You cannot for example own a house and take the value of it at 31/12/2023 and assume that is tax exempt when the house is old and the funds are remitted.

The money that you have banked in the UK is subject to Por 162 and is NOT tax assessable in Thailand, you can remit it to Thailand whenever your want, free of Thai tax. Your two UK pensions are tax assessable here but you are also entitled to quite large tax deductions and allowances in Thailand. In your situation, from what you have said I would imagine you are liable to about 500k Baht in exemptions and allowances in Thailand before you have to start paying tax at 5%. If you give us some approximate numbers I can be more specific.

The poster didn't talk about after, he spoke only about before: "I still have no idea if what I would classify as "savings" (income accrued overseas prior to 2024) is classified by Thailand as "income" when remitted into Thailand". But even funds remitted after 31/12/2023 are well categorised, they are either exempt by virtue of Pir 161/162, exempt by virtue of a DTA or they are assessable. That those funds might have been taxed overseas and that tax can be used as an offset here, is another matter. But funds that are created after 31/12/2023 fall into one of the three I first mentioned. Savings don't just get created out of thin air, they are income first.