chiang mai

Bangkok bank is showing 43.80 for TT's this morning, I suspect the above rate is the spot rate..

Yes I did, it was the second post in this exchange, I wrote: "Bangkok Post says over 11.9 million Personal Income Tax forms were filed in 2023. Of those, 4.5 million were requests for refunds so therein lies part of the answer. But the 4.5 mill was unusually high as fraud was suspected. https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2799906/tax-refunds-delayed-by-surge-in-fake-submissions 12 million PIT returns were filed in 2023. The workkforce is 38 million and 12 million represent 31% of the workforce. Or if you want to take it as a percentage of the population, which is 72 million, that's 17%. I used 24% because that's the mumber I have seen used in other discussions. Regardless, it's still 12 million tax returns, of which around 4 million are for refunds, "Of the total tax filings, 4.25 million were requests for tax refunds". The second link in that earlier post says," There were 9.55 million people in the tax system for fiscal 2020", which means 12 million returns, four years later, sounds about right. It goes on to say, "Out of 9.55 million taxpayers, there were 3.3 million people who had a monthly income of 25,000 baht, the minimum threshold to file tax forms, while the remaining 6.25 million earn less than the threshold". Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2020179/revenue-department-plan-intends-to-add-some-500-000-taxpayers. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

If you get stuck, post your query and others will help clarify the terms.

Price Waterhouse is located in Bangkok, as are other Big 4 accountancy firms, they are easy enough to locate via the web. A link below lists other tax consulatanies in Thailand:

Self employed in Thailand are supposed to register with TRD, yes. I don't know how many do, my wife did, a nearby neighbour did, two of our friends have. I have no idea what street vendors do on this score, I don't think that's relevant to how may people file null returns and whether or not people who exceed the threshold but have no tax to pay are required to file.

Thank you, we agree. To be clear, none of this is advice to anyone, it is solely opinion.

Agreed

Just to be crystal on this point: A foriegner has 300k of assessable income that is not exempt or in any way excluded. He also has TEDA worth 500k. This means he has no tax to pay: Should he file a tax return? I say he should. Some others feel strongly that he doesn't need to because TRD doesn't want null returns where no tax is due and no refund requested. From what you have written, you think he should file and if the TRD doesn't want him to file, they will tell him. BUT this is not a decison that an indivudal taxpayer can make in isolation.

If we did get it, she didn't tell me.

Ok and fine once again. But some members feel strongly that if adfter all of that, there is no tax to pay, they don't need to file.

Yes, I agree with all of what you wrote. I would only add to it that the threshold is 60k Baht where the income is from other than employment. The issue being discussed is whether or not forigners need to file a return where the threshold, be it 60k, 120k or 220k has been breached but there is no tax to pay. I believe they do, others believe that doesn't make sence and that the TRD doesn't want null returns where no tax is due and no refunds are being claimed. Others also believe that TEDA can be factored iunto the equation, where as, as we have already discussed, I dont think it can. That's the background to the exchnage in play currently.

You are correct to say that actual expenses can be used in leiu of the standard deductions in all income categories but I do not know if Schedule E can be used for this purpose.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time and pretend that you don't understand and will try to explain it to you. If the average wage in Thailand is 15,000 baht nationwide, that's only 200k baht per year, under the threshold to pay tax for most people (60k personal allowance and 150k zero rated band) That means that on average, Thai's don't qualify to pay tax. If Thai's are working and are registered as self employed, it's easily possible to earn three times that amount and still not qualify to pay tax, this is because of the generous deductions allowed for the self employed. If you are registered as self employed, my wife confirms the TRD is quite strict about reminding you to file when needed. Fortunately she does but no doubt they have a follow up system in place if you don't. So yes, it's very probable that many of those rice farmers that you pass, maybe are filing returns twice a year and none are paying tax, legally. I wonder why it is you don't know these things having lived in Thailand as long as you have, especially since you tell us you're a numbers person who knows about taxation. I would have thought some of these things would have rubbed off on you over the years, who knows, maybe it did and perhaps you just forgot, recall isn't what it once was, as we age. Lastly as I see it we have 12 million people filing return, 3 million people paying tax and 4 million people looking for refunds, that's 5 million returns that are...dare I say it, null returns, possible? And if they are not null returns, what are they? https://www.expatica.com/th/work/law/thailand-minimum-wage-2172841/#:~:text=The average monthly salary in,that of Malaysia and Singapore.

In the more than 20 years that I've been here, I can't recall ever having had any form of official communications from any government department, apart from a blank copy of a tax return from TRD, for a couple of year a decade ago. Oh, and a traffic tickets as a result of a speed camera this year.

It is a fact that all self employed individuals must file in twice a year, half yearly and annually, regardless of whether they have tax to pay or not. Refunds will absorb some of the difference between the 12% of fiulers and 6% of payers but not all.

Bangkok Post says over 12 million tax returns were filed in 2023. Of those, 4.5 million were requests for refunds so therein lies part of the answer. But the 4.5 mill was unusually high as fraud was suspected. https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2799906/tax-refunds-delayed-by-surge-in-fake-submissions And as of 2020 there were 3.3 millions tax payers in the system, I have read elsewhere that number has increased slightly since.. https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2020179/revenue-department-plan-intends-to-add-some-500-000-taxpayers

I was thinking about this thorny old issue of who needs to file when, if tax is due, regardless if tax is not due, TEDA etc etc. It is said that 24% of the workforce (36 million) file tax returns whilst only 11% pay taxes, that equates to around 12% of the population (72 million) filing a return and around 6% paying taxes. If those numbers are correct, it seems that over half those returns are null returns where no tax is due. I know that self employed people MUST file twice a year, regardless of whether tax is due or not. Self employed folks are no different really from individual Personal Income Tax payers, they gave slightly different TEDA in some areas but essentially they are the same. So the question becomes, if it is only common sense that the TRD does not want null returns, why are so many people filing them and why are so many people forced to file them? It seems that there are almost 4.5 million null returns being filed already, why is that? You can argue whether the percentages are exact or just close enough but I don't think it changes the fundamental question.

Write to you personally, through official channels, dear God man, you're living in a country that is frequently described as the third world....best you get your expectations under control.

There are eight classes of income, about six of them have expense elements associated with them. For example, you can claim expenses on pension payments, just as you can claim expenses on income earned thru employment. You must look at your income category and decide which class it exists in and see if there is an associated expenses deductions. https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html Note: property rental income has a 30% expenses element, dividend income does NOT have an expenses element and is in a class of its own.

Filing a return and paying just a small amount of tax, gets you that tax certificate, without it there's no absolute proof of tax residency that will satisfy some governments, or so it seems. Another reason to consider, if appropriate or if you think it might be needed later.

Ok, fair enough, the lead article is misinformation but the posts in the thread correct that understanding.

Specifically what is?

I don't know what that means, "forgotten them". I think you're either in their system with a TIN or you're not. If you are, then what? Do they look at your record every month/year, do they do some sort of check and if so, for what? IF bank WIT is handed over and you don't reclaim it via return, they don't write and remind you. They also don't follow up and ask why you didn't file, ever it seems. They used to send out paper copies of blank tax forms in advance of the filing season but only for one year. if you didn't file, you didn't get a blank form again....it was more of a courtesy exercise than anything else.

25% of the workforce file tax returns, 11% of the workforce pays tax. Since the average wage in Thailand is 15k baht per month (200k per year) and the average tax threshold is 210k (60k personal allowance plus 140k zero rated for tax), that is not surprising. Note the population is 70 million, the workforce is 38 million.

Hmmm! Two things: 1) All the surveys/threads on farang spending in recent years as shown 50k to be the norm, 50k and above has been the vast majority....perhaps we need a new survey. 2) of all the tax form data people have sent me, only very few have been below 600k for the year (50k month) I'll be interested to know the up to date reality on this point.