chiang mai

There is no official confirmation that the existence of a DTA means remittances escape assessability, none whatsoever.

Agreed that remittances to third parties do not necessarily mean they are not assessible, it depends on all the usual factors associated with remittances to yourself.

Nope! Not all remittances are assessible, some are exempt under terms of a DTA and some are exempt by virtue of Por 162.

If members are not allowed to speculate or offer their opinions, this forum goes out of business and there is no forum. Members need to put on their big boy pants and recognise the difference between fact and opinion, a discussion already held once today in detail. There was a notice pinned at the top of these threads reminding everyone that anything contained in them is opinion. If people want nothing but fact on this subject they should visit Big 4 offices and also buy a crystal ball!.

I have only ever glossed over the CRS requirements but there are other members who are up to speed on it...I take my lead from people like them and you on the subject of CRS.

I did not write that TIN's WERE automatically assigned, I speculated and wrote, "Many of those people appear not to have applied for a TIN but may have had one assigned by TRD, Once again, these things are not about enforcement, only people wishing to evade tax have an interest in that aspect.

You may be talking about "full on reporting of all transactions" but the thread is about taxing foreigners on overseas income. In that context, only inbound remittances is of interest which is why I clarified that banks do indeed report details of all accounts and amounts where WHT has been paid. I'm sorry if you see that as fear mongering but it it remains a core constituent of the bank tio TRD information process. Your anecdote regarding your client is interesting but is still an anecdote, which I choose to ignore, because it is an anecdote and not something that can be verified as typical across all tax payers. I don't think these threads are so much about enforcement as they are about what the rules are presently, that has certainly the focus of all the other threads. If everyone understands the current rules and process, they can make their own decisions regarding how they wish tp proceed.

Once again, do you not think that banks have always reported to the revenue, details of any accounts where interest was paid and tax withheld?

I haven't always paid tax but I still file a return. I had Thai income some years plus my wife has a business so I did some things there also.

We have members who want me to change my name, my writing style and now one who wants less use of authoritative confusing words. I don't believe in 18 years here I have ever asked another poster to change those things about themselves, I've simply asked them to clarify points they made. Is that asking too much of others. If posters think that anything I post is official information, I have to fall back on forum rules, tradition and common sense. Who would take first line legal, medical or tax advice as gospel, when it's written on a social network forum! I would take first line medical advice from Sheryl and Crossy for electrical information, because I trust their track record and knowledge, anyone else I probably wouldn't.......don't other members do similar! Lastly, no, this is not my daily job, it's a fill in activity or diversion whilst I do two other main tasks most days, the three things complement each other.

The digital account that you make the ATM withdrawals from is the issue because the nature of that account determines whether the funds you withdraw/remit are assessable or not. You use the term digital, which I have taken to mean a bitcoin equivalent. If that is not correct, can you please clarify what type of account that is? That issue not withstanding, your digital online statement sounds like it might work, as long as you are able to print off history.

I believe you. THB I've never dug into it very deeply to understand why.

You would treat/prove those foreign bank ATM cash withdrawals in exactly the same way as you would any other type of remittance from the foreign bank. For many people that means having a cut off statements of some description, dated 12/31 2023 and keeping records of the debits and credits to the account. You say your accounts are all digital but at some point the funds hit an account that is capable of providing a statement, they can't go from the digital state, to an ATM withdrawal overseas, without some form of written record?. Those digital funds that you access via an ATM surely must have some form of associated record keeping or intermediary, or am I missing something here?

Yes agreed. Fortunately I didn't want any of the things UOB said I couldn't have whereas I did want some of what CIMB said I couldn't. But if you have a yellow tabien card and a pink ID card, you can get those accounts that are otherwise restricted. I believe the issue may be systems and tax related where foreigner passport numbers are a different length to the 13 digit Thai ID card number.

Just filling in the information gaps for the benefit of other members reading this, so they can understand the complete picture, we're not the only people reading this information!.

I have been retired for all my time here.

This is true. But it's also worth understanding that for Thai people, their national ID card number serves as their TIN, they don't have a separate number for tax purposes hence, only none Thai's must apply for TIN's.

I got my TIN many years ago and have been filing tax returns here since at least 2012 I guess.

The issue is NOT about if or how the TRD will track us, that is only relevant for those people who consciously decide to evade tax and detection. For everyone else, the issue is about seeking clarity of the TRD rules, which is 99.9% of what these threads are all about. And since there are parts of all of that we cannot decide or agree upon, the solution is to wait until the end of the year when the new forms and instructions are released. The millions of Thai's who don't pay taxes needs to be understood in context of a larger picture. Who is to say the TRD will not do both things at once, especially since the new rule changes are not aimed at the small percentage of foreigners in Thailand but at the majority who are Thai's? It's also important to remember that the way the tax rules are written at present, native Thais on low incomes can legally not file returns or pay tax so I wouldn't let the headline statistics confuse the picture. Another aspect of that is that Self Employed Thai's can easily turnover a million baht per year, earn a net 600k or more per year and not have to pay tax.

Here's a link to a google search on the subject showing pages of news articles in only the Bangkok Post....I think you get my drift! https://www.google.com/search?q=bangkok+post+tax+news+personal+income&sca_esv=d161937f2a63904d&ei=dAQPZ-nFBrTvseMPiqHKkQc&ved=0ahUKEwjpz9KtzpGJAxW0d2wGHYqQMnIQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=bangkok+post+tax+news+personal+income&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiJWJhbmdrb2sgcG9zdCB0YXggbmV3cyBwZXJzb25hbCBpbmNvbWUyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigAUiOKFC8B1jtHnABeACQAQCYAZoBoAHVDaoBBDMuMTO4AQPIAQD4AQGYAhGgAvEOwgIIEAAYgAQYsAPCAg4QABiABBiwAxiGAxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLADGKIEwgIFECEYnwXCAgQQIRgVwgIHECEYoAEYCpgDAIgGAZAGCpIHBDIuMTWgB6pb&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

I'm reposting the following because a poster said they could not differentiate between fact and option in some of the things I write but there wasn't a single acknowledgement. That usually means that those in doubt, read it and had an, "ah yes, that's right", moment and went elsewhere to try and forget! I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page and that the above applies to everyone, not just to me. There was, for the longest time, a notice at the top of the thread that clearly stated that the thread contained only individual opinions. That should hardly be necessary and should go without saying because the forum rules clearly say that factual statements in threads such as this, must be supported by a supportive link. Rule 5 says: "In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source". https://aseannow.com/forum_rules/ That means that everything that is written in the thread is opinion, unless there is a supportive link, does that really come as any surprise to anyone! So what's the beef? If people don't like somebody's opinion, disagree with it, isn't that what people are supposed to do here! And if people can't separate the fact from the opinion, based on the links provided, perhaps they are over their heads trying to participate here and shouldn't. If somebody wants to challenge statements that I portray as fact, read the link provided. If there's no link, it must be opinion, if you don't like it or have a different one, say so (if you want) or else ignore it. I'm going to make some assumptions from time to time that the simple obvious things in life are accepted as fact, without having to provide links but if somebody feels the need to see one (and I know some of you will do this relentlessly) feel free to ask for one. This is pretty basic modus operandi. don't you think!!!

The process is this: You decide whether you must file a tax return and declare your assessable income, if you have none, you don't need to file. If you do file, you must decide what to declare and that includes your ATM withdrawals. If your return is accepted, no documentation is required. If your return is queried, you will need to prove what you have said, that includes proving the sources of ALL funds remittances. Supporting documentation is not required at the point where the return is filed. What documentation might be required/useful? Statements are a good place to start.

OK, I misunderstood because you referred specifically to US SSc and US pensions. Again, there's nowhere to show exempt income, yet, there may be in the future. Your other pensions may or may not be exempt, depending on their nature and the terms of your DTA.

Using Thai ATM's to withdraw funds in Thailand, from an overseas bank account, is still regarded as remitting funds to Thailand, as is carrying cash on a plane. The fact those funds are never deposited into a banks account doesn't change the fact they were remitted to Thailand.

Why would or should the Thai tax return make special mention of US SSc payments as a line items when there are over 100 other countries in the world plus Thailand has DTA's with over 60 of them? US SSc remittances are exempt under the terms of the DTA . There is nowhere to show exempt income on the current form but there might be on the new forms, which is why we have to be patient and wait for the new forms to be released.