chiang mai

UOB (Thai) is a Thai bank. UOB is a Singaporean bank. https://www.uob.co.th/investor-en/aboutUOB/about-us-uob-corporate-profile.page

UOB (Thai) is a Thai bank.

Yes I agree, I was trying to give a simple description rather than define the process.

I don't want to get into it tonight but there's two issues here. The first is commingled accounts and the second is the TRD treatment of CG remittances, which I understand to be that every remittance contains both capital and gain, until the total amount is remitted. In other words, you cannot say you are remitting only capital and leave the gain offshore. Let's save that for another day shall we, or you can continue without me if you wish of course.

Right, so no blanket deductible......amen!

That's the interpretation I get from reading the PWC handbook but there may be more detail we have yet to uncover. Stay tuned.

There are two sections in the PWC handbook to read. The first defines the assessable income categories as follows: "Assessable income Residents and non-residents are taxed on their assessable income derived from employment or business carried on in Thailand, regardless of whether the income is paid in or outside Thailand. Residents who derive income from outside Thailand will be subject to tax only where the income is remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is derived. Assessable income is classified into eight categories: 1. Salaries and wages (including income from stock options, house rent allowance and other fringe benefits) 2. Hire of work, office of employment or service rendered 3. Goodwill, copyright, franchise, patent, other rights, annuity, etc. PwC Thailand I Thai Tax 2023/24 Booklet 4 4. Interest, dividend, bonus for investors, gain on amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of a company or partnership, gain on transfer of shares, cryptocurrencies or digital tokens. 5. Lease of property, breach of hire-purchase and instalment sale contract 6. Income from liberal professions, such as law, medicine, engineering, architecture, accountancy and fine arts 7. Income from a contract of work whereby the contractor provides essential materials other than tools 8. Income from business, commerce, industry and income other than as specified in (1) – (7)". The second defines the deductions that can be taken against those income categories, and their respective rate: "Deductible expenses The amount of personal expenses that may be deducted depends on the category of assessable income, as follows: • Income under the above categories of assessable income (1) and (2), including goodwill, copyright and other rights under (3), a deduction of 50% is allowed subject to a maximum of Baht 100,000. • Income under (5), the rates of deduction vary from 10% to 30% depending on the type of rented property. • Income under (6), (7) and (8), the rates of deduction vary from 30% to 60% depending on the type of income or type of business. The deduction of expenses in relation to goodwill, copyright and other rights under (3) and assessable income under (5)-(8) may be on an actual basis if satisfactory evidence of the expenditure can be provided to the Revenue Department". You will note that investment income is Category 4 income, for which there is no corresponding deductible expense, all the other income categories have a deductible percentage. https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2023-24.pdf

I didn't clarify but when he wrote, investments, I took that to mean financial investments such as in markets.....perhaps @4MyEgo can clarify is real estate, markets, capital gains etc. The reason why it's important to know the category of income is because the expenses percentage varies accordingly, Sherrings clarifies: https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html Category 1 income is 50%, Category 5 is 30%, Category 6 is 60% etc etc. Try as I may I cannot make classic investment in overseas markets fit into any of the 8 types of income, which makes me wonder if there is an expenses element associated with that type of income.

Is there an expenses deductions for overseas investment income? And do you know the category of income that is relevant?

Typo, meant to read 100k.

Yes, but against Category 1 income only, salaries, wages, pensions etc. Once again, which category of income is the remitted investment income that you want to take a 100k deduction for?

No, I'm defining the 50% deduction as being specific to one of the 8 types of income. The problem you have is that your 100k deduction for overseas investment income doesn't appear to be any of those 8 types. Category 1 income is clearly defined, income from salaries wages pensions etc, that's the one I use. The 10K deduction you're talking about is where?

There's a debate that was held below which discusses TEDA, you were in on part of it...see below.

From the pinned guide below, it's code number PD (number 5 below). Much more than that you'll need to do your own digging or go back and see the expert you consulted. FWIW I've claimed the 50% of income for the past half dozen years or so but my income is from an accepted pension source. the following TEDA, identified by the corresponding RD code: a) Personal Allowance for self (PA1) - 60,000 b) Personal Allowance for wife (PA2) - 60,000 c) Over age 65 years exemption (OAE) - 190,000 d) 50% of pension income received, up to 100k (PD) - 100,000 e) In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax (ZR) 90) Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand, along with a range of other things. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found in the links below: https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html or from Sherrings below. https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

Here's the 8 types of income, maybe somebody else can shed light on what's being said here because I've not heard of this before and can't see that it exists, unless it is associated with a specific type/category of income which doesn't appear to exist. income from personal services rendered to employers; income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered; income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court; income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings; income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts; income from liberal professions; income from construction and other contracts of work; income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier. https://rd.go.th/english/6045.html

There are 8 types of possible income but I don't see where income from overseas investment remitted to Thailand is one of them. At first I thought it might be type 2 income but that is from employment sources. Type 4 income includes investment income but only from within Thailand. So no, Mazars is not that useful right now in trying to understand things. I will try and do some digging.

There is a deduction for life insurance where premiums are paid in Thailand and also a deduction for health insurance premiums, paid to a health insurer in Thailand.

When I say approved plan, I mean a real pension rather than just having some investments for use in old age and happening to be over age 65.

I guess the confused emoji must be ww, again! Just having investments for use in old age or retirement is not enough to qualify as a pension. The pension must be bona fide and complete and derived from a pension company or pension payments system such as UK State or US SSc or even a SIPP.

That's the first I've heard of that so I'll have to look into it, do you have a link from a rleiable source that describes that specifically, rather than just a link to the TRD site? All the standard deductions and allowances I'm aware of are associated with specific income groups, rather than a general overall remitting money.

The pension income would have to come from an approved pension plan, in order to claim the expenses.

Suggest you read the following to see what else you can claim, although it doesn't seem like you need to find anything else.: https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2023-24.pdf

What 100k for expenses for what? His income is from savings, there is no standard deductions for expenses on savings.

Not necessarily. Just because an investment is tax free in your home country, doesn't mean it's tax free here, in fact, it almost certainly wont be. But if you have reduced your remittance from 1 mill to 500k of savings, and your TEDA is 500k, you pay no tax anyway.

Thank you for playing... Next. :))