chiang mai

That was never legal in the first place. The Land Office doesn't take your home, they give you a couple of months to make alternate ownership arrangements.

It's fascinating to watch people's reactions to all of this. - Tax advisors are stirring it up, just to make fees. - Foreigners are being targeted because they want money - A few AN posters are just stirring it up for clicks - It will all be cancelled by the next government - It will die a silent death and the status quo will be maintained - I'm leaving/already left - Devising devious ways to evade paying tax There's hope upon hope that this is all just a bad dream when the simplest and most likely answer is that the tax law has been changed and we now have to file tax returns. For most people there will be little or no impact but there's no point doing the math just yet because it's never going to happen/I'll find a way out before it does! :))

I will be extremely surprised if that happens, far too much high profile noise has been made about this to suddenly see it fizzle without some sort of accompanying announcement. One solution might be that the status quo becomes policy and the tax free status for foreigners become an official perk of living here, they could look good if they did that. That however would rankle locals and provide them with an escape clause for imported funds. Allowing it to merely fizzle would become embarrassing as the TRD would be in the spotlight and increasingly, questions will be asked that are difficult to answer. My best guess is that they will proceed with the current plan without any fanfare and slowly increase the tax net with foreigners who feel obliged to file a return..... those people will hardly be turned away. If, for example, only 5% of foreigners file currently, this might result in an increase to say 25% or 30% who are civic minded or afraid. At some point, the link with Immigration and visa's will be made and that will cause the numbers to jump, but the surprise and shock of it all will have disappeared by then....say within three years.

I agree, what we've seen from the foreign community over the past eight months regarding the change to Thai tax rules has been a massive overreaction, shock and disbelief but totally disproportionate to the issue.

I said I was playing devils advocate because I wanted to see what people thought and what sort of discussion ensued. I'm not sure what I think about this, everyone pays VAT, it's the same for everyone. Income tax however is based on earnings, however that may be defined so people who earn more should pay more, that's the way it works in most non-communist countries. Tax revenue from all sources amounts to only 13% of the annual budget, the rest comes from exports. That 13% comprises (biggest to smallest) VAT, Corporate Income Tax, Inheritance tax and then personal income tax, in that order, the other piddling things such as fuel, car, liquor and tobacco taxes are inconsequential. Corporate, Inheritance and PIT tax total 1,877 billion baht and foreign expats contribute nothing to those things, they only contribute to VAT which is only 913 billion baht, but so does everyone else. Put another way, foreign residents contributions to the running of the country is so small as to be not measurable, remember, there's 72 million of them and substantially less than a few hundred thousand of us. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1126300/thailand-government-revenue-from-taxes-by-type/

Just so that everyone who is reading this is on the same page - The Thai ID card number is the civilian PIN number which is also their TIN, this is for Thai's only. The foreigner equivalent of the PIN and Thai ID card number is the Pink ID car number.

You do understand what devil's advocate means, don't you!

Agreed, it's just that the number changed in length some years ago and not everyone updated their card.

The new tax forms are said to available from November on, perhaps the ltr boss fields will be there.

There was a point in time, before which the pink ID was not used as a TIN and after that point it was, hence, not all pink ID's are TIN's.

Declaring non-assessable income is not an unusual practise in any tax regime but I had not seen that there was a place to do so on Thai tax forms. Some people will say that the TRD is not interested in exempt income but I have always declared mine. The fact that I don't know where that place is on the form is not unusable since I nearly always have the TRD complete my return for me, and it's fairly simple.

Yes, I know!

Assessable income is that which must be considered for tax whereas exempt income is not. As already discussed, some pension income is assessable and some is exempt and this is largely determined by the DTA. Just because something is assessable, does not mean it is taxable since exemptions and allowances (TEDA) may cause it not to be taxable. The 15% with holding tax on savings can often be reclaimed without having a TIN, the TRD officers will often do this for you without asking for a TIN. You must however have the letter or statement from the bank, confirming the amount of interest paid and tax with held. I did things this was for many years before I finally acquired a TIN but others mileage may vary based on location. The TRD system will identify and confirm the tax withheld from their systems using your name and account number at the bank (data supplied to the TRD by the banks).

What I said, if you read carefully or it isn't completely clear, is that it would be a political own goal if ever the state pension were increased and pensioners were taxed on that alone.

Perhaps you've already had the debate and I didn't see it but I believe UK government pension are exempt by treaty, eg civil service, armed forces etc.

I can. The maximum UK State Pension this year is 221 Pounds per week which is less than the 12,570 Personal Allowance. After it is increased this year, it has been said that pensioners with other income (excluding pension credits) will be taxed but I have not heard it said that the State Pension would be. Politically, that would be an own goal if that ever happened.

There's no escaping tax on fixed deposits, they cannot be paid without first deducting tax, they are something of an anomaly and appear to be regarded as investments rather than savings. But the interest can still be reclaimed via a tax return but that's the only way. But the same argument about obtaining a TIN applies not just to fixed deposits but to all accounts that pay interest.

I don't think that is the bottom line. Many expats, including myself, keep their 400/800k baht in a fixed deposit which even today can pay over 2%. 800k at 2.5% is 20,000 baht interest and if the person doesn't have a TIN to show the bank, tax will be deducted from that interest, from day one. If the expat is happy to lose that 15% tax and not reclaim it, they don't need a TIN. But it seems silly to do so when there really is no downside to getting one and reclaiming the tax. If you think that by not reclaiming it, you stay under the radar, I think that is not true since the bank knows your name, address and has a copy of your passport and visa. Banks don't collect that information because they want to!

This may help:

Sorry, I didn't see that part, I just kinda jumped in and responded to something I read that I felt needed to be corrected, mea culpa. Soooo, if the question is how much and how long before a yield of 0.5% incurs tax etc etc....about 4 mill plus for one year will generate 20k which might be free of tax at the bank and negate the need to file a return.

Just as an aside, it would be really good if people could discuss/explain these things without the need for constant puts downs and barbs, they don't add anything positive to the discussion and are not necessary at all..

https://thailand.deposits.org/deposits/

I don't see why, I earn at least 1.5% from UOB.

Who is confused at simple math, if folks can't work this out, they shouldn't have bank accounts!

It depends on the interest rate! 100k baht at 5% interest is 5k, 400k baht at 5k is 20k. 800k baht at 2.5% is 20k, and so on.