oldscool

Or compassionate and forgiving? It's a fundamental principle that Buddha's teachings are passed on freely. And they are in Thai monasteries even for long term stays the food is free - payment is discretionary at the end of the retreat, at least in the one I attended. Sadhguru, who I mentioned above has numerous free guided practices on his website/app. And you can volunteer for very long stays of 6 months plus sometimes, all free. Other courses are paid but it's a small fee. The mindfulness health industry, particularly in the west, is pretty far removed from the idea of spiritual growth. It's an industry that needs to turn a profit to survive I guess.

Actually I did reference the positives, but not itemise them, as in "despite the positives", and supplied the link for interested readers. There were 3 reasons for not itemising them: 1. The quote would have been too long. 2. Many tokers here claim to be unaware of the negatives, so it's a good idea to spell them out. 3. The medicinal benefits are overwhelmingly, but not exclusively, from low THC products that stoners wouldn't be interested in, therefore not especially relevant to a discussion on the health benefits of recreational weed. Apart from any of that, Anutin himself was and is clear about the intention for medicinal use only. It was poorly thought out decriminalization that is being rectified, that's all. In one of my first posts here a couple of years ago I posted that this was inevitable, based on what senior people in the health dept had told me. All the baloney about Thaksin being behind it is paranoia, another symptom of weed abuse. I understand that the long-term users - retirees and tourists - here wouldn't be at the sharp end of the health problems, but the Thai youth in particular would be, and as my quote makes clear, mental health problems associated with recreational weed at a young age can be severe and irreversible.

In Thailand medicinal use for THC less than 0.2% was what was legislated for, recreational use was a grey area or black hole. So, despite the fact that I used to use it off and on, this whole debate is pointless: recreational weed was never legalised, as I've quoted from Anutin himself before. And yes, there are health risks, some substantial, from Psychology Today, despite the benefits of medicinal use... "The cons (for recreational use), however, are significant, especially in adolescents and young adults. Much research, including a recent study out of New Zealand, concluded that for those who begin to use marijuana regularly in their early teens, there can be long-term memory impairment with a lowering of IQ, poor job and academic performance, and greater risk of depression later on in adulthood. Individuals from traumatic backgrounds are at higher risk of developing this pattern and are four to seven times more likely to become dependent on alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs. Additionally, marijuana use can cause increased impulsiveness, impaired driving ability, heightened anxiety, paranoia, and apathy. Probably due to the higher potency of THC in marijuana today compared to the 1960s, there is a greater risk of it triggering psychosis, even in those without a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/collaborative-care-and-psychiatry/202112/marijuanas-mental-health-pros-and-cons

Analayo's words are Buddha's, not his own, a description of Buddha's path not Analayo's. Gautama Buddha was born into a world of Hinduism and many other Indian religions and practices. So much cultural background that we can never really understand 2500+ years later, but like I said above Sadhguru, an Indian yogi, does address many of those points clearly in English in his many videos.

I think you experienced something of what's beyond in your absorption described above. And I'm certain Gautama did too. Have you heard of Sadhguru? He is an Indian mystic yogi who leads the Isha foundation with centres in India, Singapore, USA and elsewhere (not Thailand) with a huge following, youtube channel, app with all sorts of stuff. He's nearly 70 I think, and started out with an experience like yours that lasted a week or more. He talks about many of the points raised in this thread and much more on his youtube channel, well worth a visit. Seems like the real deal to me. In fact his Isha foundation is offering a free Mental Health Awareness Month Special now, free on his Isha app.

My practice is far from perfect, it's come and gone over the years like vegetarianism. For some time Analayo's book "Satipatthana "(he's a German monk who did a doctorate I think in early Buddhism) on Buddha's Satipatthana method/sutra was my go to. Satipatthana is the source of the Vipassana approach that's practiced in Thailand, or one of them. But when I read that becoming an awakened "stream entrant" is followed by 7 more re-incarnations before escaping the wheel of incarnation I felt it was getting a bit too much: the legacy of Hinduism in Buddhism makes things much too complicated for me. So I switched to Ian Gawlor's book "Meditation", he's an Australian that used meditation to overcome cancer. His approach is actually very similar to Vipassana, without the Hindu mysticism. I've read quite a bit of other stuff too, but those 2, plus the retreat in Chiang Mai formed my practice. I even visited an awakened Thai monk in Isan, who had led a meditation practice in California for a long time, and a temple in Pattaya where an American resided and apparently became awakened. I've still got his book somewhere.

Maybe, but when you factor in the growth of the international medicinal market and Thailand's huge farming sector and low cost base there's no reason why Thailand shouldn't get a slice of the market. And the market is likely to increase a lot as more countries legalise medicinal use, and an increasing number of medicinal applications are approved. But I don't think it will ever replace rice as an export!

Another aspect of mental health and meditation. I was reading a while back about someone attending a retreat who went into a "full on kundalini" experience without warning - this must have been quite a shock. He had been dong a lot of "3rd eye" meditation prior to the retreat. A well-known yogi describes an unprepared kundalini experience as "a leap into the abyss" or something like that, and I guess conventional western psychology would describe it as a psychosis of some sort. Also I think if someone's suffering from depression, long periods of meditation could be counter-productive, but not necessarily. But I've never heard of anyone developing mental issues from the sort of Buddhist vipassana meditation taught in retreats in Thailand.

Thanks for the description of your absorption, very interesting. My practice usually involves attending to sensory perception (externals) as well as internals, so I have never experienced anything like that. Also my practice is usually twice a day for a total of not more than 1 1/2 hours, and that may include yoga postures to begin with. The Buddhist literature distinguishes 2 types of practitioners - householders and monks, though of course mindfulness can be applied throughout the day by anyone. The long periods of deep meditation you refer to in your OP I've always associated with monks practicing in a supported situation - ie a sangha and a temple, rather than what a householder might be able to fit into their day. Good thread, an interesting discussion.

I have never experienced this level of absorption myself. May I ask, have you? If so do you believe it has had adverse effects? I have been vegetarian on and off since I was 18. Never really ate red meat in a big way, but fish quite regularly. It was more for ethical reasons than anything else. Any search will come up with lots of references. As an aside, I think one of the most important enablers for meditation is the spine, as it carries the central nervous system to the brain, and therefore some yoga practice helps.

I have never seen any empirical work to support this view. Re your original comparison with crosswords, study and debate. Each of these requires language, while consciousness is beyond/beside language, it's experiential, so maybe something like chess or go would be better for stimulating the brain without forcing us into narrow linguistic channels and their contingent "dependent arising". My assumption is that meditation would assist these rather compete with them. If a householder engages in lengthy long-term meditation sessions maybe it could lead into all sorts of issues that that wouldn't affect monks, but brain atrophy? I think a lot hinges on the definition of "deep meditation" - how would that be measured? Analayo has the best English language exegesis of the Satipatthana and its path to realisation and describes the various states one may encounter that I have seen. Re meat v fruit and time for digestion, I base this on my own experience and reading, and I've just done a quick search which confirms.

Interesting question. Suffering and the end of suffering is the core of Buddha's teaching. What is suffering? It's the mental anguish that comes with events. Buddha's meditation process, and it is a process that can be learnt, helps to understand the linkage between the event and the suffering simply by becoming more aware of what's going on inside ourselves, our bodily feelings, emotions, thoughts, and how they trigger each other - "dependent arising". When the linkage is broken that's the end of "suffering". This can be achieved quickly, but maybe it takes a lifetime to become permanent. Re diet. A balanced diet can easily be based on vegetarianism. The modern western diet has far too much protein. Meat stays in the digestive tract far far longer than vegetables, fruits, grains and pulses, and causes many health problems. Buddhism is not a religion as there is no god in Buddhism. It's just a practice. As for "realisation" or enlightenment, I'm not sure it's like flicking on a light switch, but more gradual. Some teachers have been described as "fully-realised", but I'm not really sure what that means. As for retreats, I've only been on one, about 15 years ago at a temple in Thailand, flexible stay up to 3 weeks. There were no fees involved. OCD is a form of suffering, and our modern lifestyles are overflowing with obsessive compulsive behaviour. Interactions on forums from entrenched positions by people who have never met in real life are an example of this. That's not to say all forums or forum users are suffering! But there is visible amount of OCD on the few forums I use. I used to belong to a zoom group for meditation, but it lapsed. I'd be interested in joining one if anyone knows of one. Or even starting one?

This seems to be the key point. Will life continue to be ok for you as you get older and presumably more socially isolated on the island? It's such a common problem that the Chiang Mai expat club used to run some sort of outreach for isolated expats, not sure if they still do. A key question is - can you afford to continue this situation indefinitely? If not, then you need to make some sort of change. You're close to 70? Some say 70 is the new 50, plenty of scope for change if that's what you decide.

That's right, though the medicinal benefits of heroin, morphine and cocaine, other than as pain-killers, are questionable.

I'm indifferent to both these days, but.... This link suggests that "Despite its medical usefulness, many Americans’ attitudes toward cannabis shifted at the turn of the [20th] century. This was at least partly motivated by Mexican immigration to the U.S. around the time of the 1910 Mexican Revolution, according to Eric Schlosser, author of Reefer Madness: Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labour in the American Black Market." And some other countries followed the US. This despite the fact that "the drug wasn’t always prohibited. Anglo-Americans and Europeans have known about marijuana’s medicinal benefits since at least the 1830s. Around that time, Sir William Brooke O'Shaughnessy, an Irish doctor studying in India, documented that cannabis extracts could ease cholera symptoms like stomach pain and vomiting. By the late 19th century, Americans and Europeans could buy cannabis extracts in pharmacies and doctors’ offices to help with stomach aches, migraines, inflammation, insomnia, and other ailments." O'Shaughnessy's praise of mj's benefits is a long way from today's obsession with high THC recreation though. From my own experience of both, alcohol was a social drug, and a glass of wine with a nice meal is very different from the way I used weed, which was specifically to get stoned, and I think most recreational users do too, otherwise why bother it. But lots of drinkers don't drink to get drunk. This is a difference that often gets overlooked. https://www.history.com/news/why-the-u-s-made-marijuana-illegal