Red Phoenix

# You wrote: If there is any wrong doing it would be between the agent and immigration , not the applicant. That's only partially correct. Indeed the Imm Officer accepting and the Agent handing out the bribe, are guilty of corruption. The applicant will of course plead 'ignorance' claiming that he was not aware that the Agent which he engaged was bribing Immigration for his application, and it is correct that he will not be charged for partaking in the corruption. But that does not mean that there are no consequences for the applicant, because as a result of his Visa/extension being acquired in a non-legal way it is invalid. And so he will face the consequences of 'being caught in Thailand without a valid permission to stay'. And the penalty he will receive, will depend on how long he was already staying in Thailand without such valid permit. # You wrote: I have not heard of a prosecution of a agent or immigration officer , have you ? I know of at least one case some years ago where Immigration officers that were exposed as being on the take after an internal Immigration investigation, were fired and prosecuted for corruption (but I don't know the sentences which they received). And the Agents that bribed them have been stripped of their licenses to operate (but I don't know if they have been prosecuted).

In the SiSaKet Imm Office a Residence Certificate is provided free of charge. (as it should be).

Andrew Dwyer already responded to your post, and he is fully correct. #1 - When having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a 60-day Tourist Visa, you can then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at the Imm Office of the province where you plan to reside. This has to be done when you still have at least 15 days left on your permit to stay as stamped in your passport by border-immigration on entry. Note that in some provinces, they require 21 or 23 days before Permit expiry. In case you have too little time to prepare for the application, you can also apply first for a 30-day extension of your Permit to stay (costs 1.900 THB). Those 15 (or 21/23) days are required because your Non Imm O Visa application has to be approved by Divisional Headquarters of the province where you are applying, and that process can take up to 2 weeks. So that minimum of 15 days is meant to avoid that your Permit to stay expires before Div Headquarters has approved your application (which is just a bureaucratic thing as the provincial Imm Office does not want to 'lose face' by submitting an application that does not meet the requirements). Note that Immigration does not keep your Passport during the process, but you have to return on the day indicated to have the Div Headquarter approval for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa based Permit to stay, stamped in your Passport #2 - When having entered Thailand with a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, you will receive on entry a 90-day permit to stay stamped in your passport by border-immigration (if you used #1 the local Imm Office will have stamped the 90-day permit in your passport). And ultimately till the day of expiry of that Permit to stay, you can apply at the local Imm Office of the province where you plan to reside for the 1-year extension based on that original Non Imm O Visa. Such application for a 1-year extension requires seasoning of the required financial funds (+800K for 'retirement' / +400K for 'marriage') for two months before application. Note that if you apply for reason of dependent Thai children there is NO seasoning requirement, and that if you are a woman married to a Thai man that NO financial funds are required).

Yes, they would still have a record of you having stayed in Thailand previously (even if you re-enter with a new passport). But there would be no incentive at all for Immigration to lift your earlier files. So exiting Thailand and re-entering (be it with a new Non Imm O Visa, Tourist Visa or Visa Exempt) would allow you to start anew and become totally legal again.

Nope

I am not anti-Agent. They can provide a useful service if you are unsure or not knowledgeable on how to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. And I have no objections to them 'fixing' the financial requirements for your Visa/extension application, as long as they are honest about it and don't tell you that it is fully legal and with no consequences when being caught. Re my 'ill informed' content: You should try next time when you apply for your 1-year extension (without using an agent) to see how the Imm Officer would react when you cannot show evidence of having kept the funds for the required period on your personal bank-account.

Why? Because it is not easy to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. An anecdote: I personally know two farang that were so gullible as to believe the Visa Agent they turned to, that he (the Agent) could secure a 'legit' Visa and subsequent extensions for them without having to park the required funds on a personal Thai bank-account. Worse: one of those farangs was married to a Thai national and had dependant children. So instead that the Agent advised and helped him with applying for a Non Imm O for that reason (which only requires +400K on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application, after which you are free to use the funds as you please), the Agent got him a Non-Imm O Visa and subsequent extensions for reason of retirement (as that was easier and more profitable for the Agent, than doing it the 'legit' way and applying for reason of dependant children). My friend is 'hooked now' and has to rely on that Agent for servicing him each year for the Non Imm O retirement application, since he cannot show that he met the financial conditions for the extension that was issued to him, and thus cannot apply for a new extension without Agent help to bypass the financial conditions. He obviously wasn't pleased when I explained it to him as he was under the conviction that he had a fully valid extension. And it would have been easy for him to get the required + 400K for a couple of days to meet the 'dependant children' financial requirement. Note: In order to legalize his situation he would have to do a border-run to kill his present Non Imm O retirement Permit to stay, and on return then apply for the Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant children. The above goes to show that the farang that made use of the Agent service to bypass the financial requirements, were/are often not fully aware of the consequences of doing so. And even if they were, the 'totally legal' claims by Agents and some posters on this Forum, might have pushed them to take the risk. And then of course there are those that simply did not have the required funds, and were desperate to stay in the Land of Smiles. If I were as good as broke and the only way of staying in Thailand with my lovely Thai lady would be to 'cheat' by using a fixer Agent to secure my Visa/extension, I would probably go that route too. So I feel for the farangs that might be sacrificed as collateral damage in this internal IO corruption clamp-down saga. And I would advise all those that are living here in Thailand on a non-valid extension stamp, to carefully consider whether it is worth the risk if they have the financial means to do it the 'legit' way.

Since you do not believe it, that will spare me the effort of looking for the specifics. Also, the 'discretion' of the Imm Officer you are mentioning, has to be bought by the Agent or the applicant for a hefty fee, and corruption is the term to be used for such practice.

You are mistaken. There IS a requirement to maintain the required bank-balance during the validity of your Non Imm O permission to stay. And it is being checked (not 'waived') by the Imm Officer when you apply for your next extension whether you met those conditions.

Yes the stamps in your passport are valid. BUT if you got them by bypassing the financial requirements using an Agent or corrupt Imm Office, that makes them invalid. At border immigration they will not be able to detect this, but if an Immigration Officer requests you to show your Bank pass-book as evidence that you are still meeting the conditions under which the Visa/extension was provided, you would not be able to do so.

The Visa/Extension stamp you received in your passport is not fake. But the process by which you received it - when making use of an Agent and/or corrupt Imm Officer to bypass the financial requirements - makes it invalid. Many people seem not to be aware that the Visa/Extension has been provided under the condition that you continue meeting the financial requirements under which it was issued. And when you got it in an 'under the table' way, you will not be able to provide that evidence. It's a simple mater of an Immigration Officer asking to show your Bank Pass-book to see whether you still meet the conditions under which it was issued.

I hope - for all the farangs that used an Agent to circumvent the financial requirements for their Visa/extension - that you are right. But if Big Joke is determined to weed out corruption in the local Immigration Offices, he would have to set some examples by ousting a bunch of Imm Officers 'on the take' by overlooking the financial requirements in Visa/extension applications. But the farangs that were serviced by these Imm Officers might turn out to become collateral damage in such process. There are many Immigration Offices (e.g. my own SiSaKet one) where any hanky-panky with meeting the requirements is strictly prohibited. But I am pretty sure that it would be tempting for Immigration Officers, when some of their colleagues in other provinces are making a multifold of their monthly salary by simply overlooking that a requirement was not met. And Big Joke knows that without some examples being set from time to time, the practice would gradually spread to more and more offices.

The only plausible reason for doing so, is that he got his Visa/extension in Pattaya and so for Immigration purposes he is a Pattaya resident and has to do his 90-day reports there (probably not aware of the on-line or postal option to do so). It's as good as certain that he got his Visa/extension by using an Agent to circumvent the financial requirements, and so he is avoiding to relocate to the actual province where he is living. Such a relocation requires a visit to the Immigration Office and he would be concerned that the local Imm Officer might ask him to show his bank pass-book that he meets the conditions under which his Visa/extension has been issued (which he cannot show if the Agent circumvented the financial requirements) and that would expose him as being in Thailand on a non-valid Visa/extension.

Farangs that made use of a Visa Agent that circumvented the financial requirements for acquiring their Visa/extension, do not have a 'legit' Visa/extension. And that is irrespective of the reason why they made use of the Agent (some were probably being told the fable that it was a fully legit but cheaper way to get hold of their Visa/extension). And previously there was very little risk that your file would be lifted in a 'crack-down' by Immigration Headquarters on corrupt Imm Officers, but it has happened in the past also and farangs been deported and denied re-entry to Thailand for 5-10 years. If your Visa or extension stamp shows one of those 9 offices currently under scrutiny (it's the first line of the Visa stamp that tells WHICH office issued it) and you are worried, you can PM me to discuss your options.

Let's hope that there is not too much collateral damage of farangs being deported because they made use of Agents that circumvented the financial requirements for their Visa/extension by having it handled at one of those 9 offices currently under scrutiny.

There is nothing wrong with using a Visa Agent to help you with your application and navigate the often complex Immigration requirements. Such a hand-holding/representation service typically costs approx 5.000,- THB. But when using an Agent (or the Agent suggesting you) to circumvent the financial requirements, you should be aware that a Visa/extension acquired that way is not legit. The risk is very small that your file will be lifted in a 'crack-up' operation by Imm Headquarters, but it is not non-existing as several farangs have found out in the past resulting in them being deported and denied access to re-enter Thailand for 5-10 years.

Hi, I know that the financial requirement for a 1-year EXTENSION of a Non Imm O Visa for reason of a dependant child, only requires you to provide proof of having +400K funds on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application. But what are the financial requirements when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant Thai child? Is it - like for the 1-year extension - sufficient to show evidence of the funds at the date of application. Or do you need to provide proof of seasoning of those funds for 2 months prior to the application? ALSO: Is there for the Visa application a requirement to provide evidence that the +400K originated from abroad? Thanks in advance for response - and also a link to the Thai Immigration document covering such case would be appreciated.

Hi Mike, you are correct that some Imm Offices require more time left on your permission to stay than the regular 15 days. So, those wanting to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa need to check the number of days at the Imm Office of the province where they plan to reside. And it is also correct that when arriving on a 60-day Tourist Visa or having entered Thailand Visa Exempt (which currently provides you with a 45-day Permit to stay) that you can apply for a one-time 30 days extension of stay. This in case you need more time to get 'your ducks on a row' to meet the application criteria (the search for a Thai bank willing to open a bank-account for you, might take some time). Note 1: And for those married to a Thai national, they can on top of the above also apply for a one-time per entry 60-days extension for reason of visiting your spouse. Note 2: And every extension - irrespective whether it is for 30 or 60 days, or for a full year, costs 1.900 THB.

That is correct. So the Agent that fixes your Visa or extension in another province, has to use a fake address to do so. And then for immigration purposes you are residing at that fake address, unless you relocate by doing a change of address to the Province where you are really living.

You are right. but I do hope that their investigations are limited to Chinese hanky-panky with Visa/extensions only, and that farangs are not taken along in an attempt to avoid allegations of discrimination against only one ethnicity.

If the Agent applied for your initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa in another province than where you are residing, you ARE for Immigration purposes a resident there. Of course you can - once you have the Visa - relocate to the Province where you are actually living. To do so you need to visit the local Imm Office (and of course they will understand what you did, but it has always been tolerated). But some farangs never bother to relocate, and their Agent takes care of their 90-day reports and yearly extensions. FYI: I am fully legal in Thailand meeting all the requirements, and I applied for my initial Non Imm O Visa and yearly extensions without any Agent help or bribing of Imm Officers. But I feel for those that did fell for the 'fully legit Agent service with no funds required' story or did not have the necessary funds to meet the 800K/400K THB requirement and thus made use of an Agent.

Yes, Agents providing the extension service with no funds required, make use of an Imm Office where they have connections. So if your Pattaya agent got your Extension stamp at one of those 9 offices (Khon Kaen being a very popular one) you are 'technically' a resident of the province where that Imm Office is located.

Those who are living in those 9 Provinces and obtained their Visa or extension using an Agent because they did not have the required funds on a Thai bank-account, should probably consider doing a border-run to 'kill' their current Permission to stay (if they bought a Re-Entry Permit that option is unfortunately not possible). And then simply re-enter Visa-Exempt which will provide them with a 45-day Permission to stay, and then go through the legit 90-day Non Imm O Visa application process.

This is not about border immigration. It is a crackdown on the provincial Immigration Offices where foreigners apply for an initial Non Imm O Visa or an extension of it. Since such applications require to keep a considerable amount of funds on a Thai bank-account, there are many Agents that can help 'circumventing' that requirement. But of course although the Non Imm O Visa in your passport obtained via such an agent is legit, the method by which you got it is not. And although it has been some years ago, there have in the past been similar cases, where the farangs that had made use of that service to get their Visa or extension without the necessary funds on the Bank, were deported and access to Thailand prohibited for 5 to 10 years. Let's hope Big Joke is somewhat lenient to those that made use of such Agency services, and only brushes out the Immigration officers that got paid under the table by the Agents for overlooking non-compliance to the requirements.

Well, well, this was just posted today. When you got your Visa using an Agent to circumvent the Immigration requirements (e.g. the required funds on a Thai bank-account) in one of those 9 Provinces, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise...