ChicagoExpat

Your attempting to distract us from the immorality of your support from Russia leaves ME undeterred from pointing it out at every opportunity. I fixed your comment above. It's impossible to claim "You seek peace for the future of all" when you support Russia's unjustified invasion of Ukraine, Bob.

Assuming someone worse doesn't succeed him; if any nation could produce someone worse than Putin, it's Russia. That's why Russia needs to pay so heavily for its invasion that it shocks even Russia into reality. Much like 1945 Germany.

Oh Bob, you support the war and you know it. If you didn't, you would say so and would, say something like "I love Russia, but I disagree with what it's doing in Ukraine." But you won't because you don't. The only straw man here is the one you set up -- strangely it looks a lot like you. We've covered this many times but I'll revisit it as long as you do -- cries of "deflecting" "stalking" "harassing" etc are what you resort to when you know you can't support your position. You created a thread on this war. Talking about that same war is directly on topic, even if the moral vacuity of your personal position makes you uncomfortable.

This is actually a realization of the untenability and hypocrisy of your position ("I just want peace... but I support the unjustified war of one of the most brutal regimes on earth") than hurt feelings. I doubt you've come to your autumn/winter years so easily upset by an anonymous poster who says you're a sophist. Use the time to reflect on how you arrived at a station in life where you can cheer on the destruction of a nation and the deaths of hundreds of thousands. If you continue to publicly support this brutal war I'll continue to call you out on it, though I won't expect a response as I expect you to be true to your word.

Your turn, Bob. Tell us how you oppose Russia's invasion.

No, it's not hypocrisy at all, because I've never defended those wars. And I wouldn't, especially Iraq. So there you go, old shoe, on the short end of the stick again. So feel free to denounce Russia's completely voluntary and unnecessary war of choice, Mr. Peacelover. Your soul will thank you for relieving it of the burden of cheering on hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

You absolutely live in an amoral, hypocritical dream world. RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE -- NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. It is in the United States' and Europe's interests to see Russia fail, or pay as high a price as possible if they manage to keep something. That is NOT what a proxy war is. You keep repeating the same lies "BORIS DID IT! ALBRIGHT DID IT! NULAND DID! PROXY WAR! PROXY WAR!" My God -- Dementia Joe is joined by Dementia Bob. Putin and Putin alone invaded Ukraine. He had many options to try and expand his empire and he chose war. Wow, your sole criticism of Russia is that freedom of speech is "suppressed" -- and then say conditions are the same in the West. That's all you've got -- a single watered down criticism followed by a false equivalency?

What don't you love that the Russia government does? Here's your big chance, Bob, to finally give your public persona a veneer of morality. As someone who has on principle decried other countries interfering in the affairs of others, "Invading them repeatedly causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands" should be #1. P.S. Bob, I lived there for years. We already went through this. And I have literally never commented on MAGA in ASEAN Now, so as usual, your comment has a "cloud cuckoo land" aura about it.

Gweiloman, let me supply the context -- wonderfully, it actually supports continuing to help. The first part needs no explanation; the second part was a warning about America allowing an ally to fall to an authoritarian enemy after a period of American support. As true today as it was 50 years ago. The enemies of fascism thank you for your pro-freedom posting.

Ah, the classic Kremlin agitprop! Repeated by all pro-Putin minions. "The USA REALLY started this war! It's the MIC! It's the capitalists! The Illuminati! The Joooooooos!"

Yes, he, like all of the pro-peace/pro-Russia crowd, seems to giddy with anticipation.

Russians sure seem to account for an outsized portion of the crimes committed by foreigners here. I don't think it's simply biased reporting, as I've seen others claim.

Says the guy who supports Russia.

Did I insult you? A sophist is someone who argues in bad faith, which I and probably most people here believe you do. It's not an insult but rather a description of how you argue. So, no, I did not insult you. But, again, I will never cease to be amused that you and Bob -- the two foremost proponents of a war that has cost the lives of 100s of thousands, waged by a regime that provides zero human rights to its own citizens, that has kidnapped thousands of children, the list goes on and on -- cry so quickly when your feelings are hurt. To answer your other question in another post: 1) Bob and thaibeach argue for months that Russia's invasion is a good thing and enthusiastically support it 2) people with a moral compass point this out 3) Bob and thaibeach cry that this isn't true and that it hurts their feelings... but then say they don't have to prove anything, we just have to believe them 4) and then keep crying that everyone thinks they're fascists. See the problem here? Fascist is as fascist does, thaibeach. Have you insulted me? Many times, including in a post that is on page 10. Again, I don't care. Insult me all you want.

Where do you get your magic figures, Bob? Russian MoD, right?

You keep saying the war started in 2014, as if that’s some decisive rebuttal. Yes, Bob, Russia has been taking parts of Ukraine for many years now. And the idea that you and your fellow Russia supporters keep putting forth — that if Ukraine gives up now and just gives Russia more territory then there will be peace — is hilariously wrong. Russia won’t stop until it has all of Ukraine. And then it will go on to the next country. Appeasing Hitler didn’t work in the 30s, Bob. Why would appeasing Putin work now?

I’m aware of this. It does nothing to disprove my point. Congratulations— you’ve become even more of a sophist than ever.

Sweetheart, every post is unbalanced, partisan, and repeats Kremlin talking points. Go ahead and criticize the morality of the war, the bogus pretexts Russia still occasionally maintains, etc. Would Ukraine being absorbed by Russia be a good thing or a bad thing? You can do this, of course and still be a critic of the West, Ukraine, the United States, etc. I’ve asked you and Bob to do this many times but you won’t. Yes, you enthusiastically support Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Someone better tell the Russians they won — with constant losses it seems they’d welcome the news. What an unbelievably stupid statement, Bob.

China invaded Vietnam in 1979 and got beat. It’s directly on topic. I’m glad I’m able to educate you on so many things, @Gweiloman. Between you, @thaibeachlovers, and @BobBKK it seems I’m the only one who actually knows anything about history.

Agree. There's little doubt in my mind Trump will dump Ukraine/support Russia, and I have little faith in Europeans' ability to commit to anything hard-power related.

There you go again, Bob -- characterizing disagreement as "trolling", "bullying", "stalking", etc. Stop crying and engage. That's for Ukraine to decide if they want to reward Russia in preparation for the next invasion, Bob. It may be Russia wins some of part of what it came for; if it does, it will just do it again and again and again. I think Ukraine will survive this if its friends don't abandon it. Russia has made almost no progress in two+ years of invasion and brutal attacks on civilian targets; considering the power differential, that's a shocking outcome. The benefit of dictatorships like Russia is they can go all in, regardless of anything but the whims of the dictator; the weakness of democracies is they are easily distracted. Russia has done a great job of building up support for it on the far right -- this thread is great evidence of that.

There you go Bob! Arguing the Chinese and Russian sides. Un-frickin'-believable. The war is Ukraine's fault! And the the USA started it! Just sad.

1) I'm not attacking you personally, I said you were ignorant of the subject. 2) You do enthusiastically support Russia (interesting you consider that a personal attack). 3) And my argument directly addressed your points, and in fact refuted them. "Pathetic and wrong"? Wow, thai, sure sounds like you're attacking me personally. You and Bob are alike in several ways, one of them being crying about being attacked, stalked, bullied, etc and yet doing worse. The difference is, I don't care, I won't cry about it, and I won't report you for hurting my feelings. The two of you are arguing for the worst regimes on earth; if the discussion gets salty... it shouldn't surprise anyone.

The United States didn't, and in fact public opinion was strongly against involvement. That was the argument, not whether or not the Treaty of Versailles was a good idea.