Somjot

You're welcome And I understand you too well. I mean what is there to debate about anyway? Israel in a nutshell: some people came from Europe, mostly Ukraine and Poland, claim to be the descendants of people who had been driven out some 2000 years ago and now somehow after two millennia have the right to the land. They do not intend to live there peacefully with the Palestinians same as the few Jews who had been living there for generations. Despite the rest of the world is promoting human rights and freedom and opposing racism they want their own apartheid state. The only UN resolution the Jews ever accept is the partition plan of 1947, they immediately declare their own state, take much more land than was assigned to them, violently drive out the Palestinians and prevent the creation of a Palestinian state since then by continuously and illegally grabbing their land. The following decades they commit every thinkable atrocity to turn the occupied Palestinian areas into hell hoping to drive them out while at the same time create a narrative for the western world declaring themselves as the victims with the only democracy in the area and the Palestinians as the Muslim terrorists, who hate the western way of living. Despite every statistic and graphic proves who is the thief and murderer and who is the real victim. They do not realize with time passing by and the continuous atrocities towards Palestinians they turned themselves into the same racists monsters, who once slaughtered their ancestors on industrial level. Most polls and interviews with Israelis prove that. And they got used to the lies and narratives they have been presenting to the western world with the western media being their complicit. Thanks to social media the world finally learned what's really going on there. Deep in their hearts they know they are wrong, which you can clearly see in the way they are debating and defending their position, which is indefensible and lost. You come with arguments and facts and they answer with branding and smearing, or distracting to something else and in the end personal attacks towards you and your culture. I don't know how many times I have posted this video of the debate in the Knesset about the right to rape. The reaction of the pro Israelis is always the same: there is none. They just ignore it same as they ignore all the other atrocities their country has committed and still keep playing the victim role. There is no point in discussing with them. <removed>

Oh, so you understand that in my culture lying is encouraged. And which culture might that be? Towards which you seem to have such a racist opinion. And how come you are an expert to that culture whichever that might be. And such words from you, the great defender of Israel. Culture of lies, eh? 30 babies, beheaded Babies in ovens Gang rapes No, we did not kill Hind Rajab No, we did not kill he World`s kitchen employees We care only about the wellbeing of the hostages - that`s why we bomb every building they could be held in. No we did not kill those 15 aid workers. Ok, we killed them but only because they did not turn their emergency lights on Ok, their lights were on but one of them was Hamas, so the killing was legitimate. No we did not bury them to hide them, we were protecting them against the cold and animals Yes, we buried their cars too, because bla bla bla Seriously , do you think I am Israeli, when you talk about my culture? Thanks anyway, you gave me a really good laugh. That from all people it is you blaming my culture for encouraging lies. Good one.

What proof? This is what you said, that there were no soldiers in Gaza so there were no harassments. I did not repeat you word by word but that is exactly what you were telling

Of course not! Nobody here excused what they did on October 7. Again you are intentionally misinterpreting him. Someone said that Palestinians are the most dysfunctional people on the planet and @JimCM delivered a possible answer for that which is the brutality and injustice they face from Israel for decades. <removed> The country you are so passionately defending is doing that for decades, even to detainees. But democratic as they are they discuss that matter in a civilized way in their government

What`s wrong with you? @JimCM has answered you already. Just because you fail to understand it, as Israel being held accountable for their ethnic cleansing is beyond imagination for you especially as they have done it for decades with impunity, does not make it untrue

Yes, exactly, that`s why I wrote "Imagine is is 2020 ...". Yet you acted as if I was presenting a documentary and intentionally providing false information, so you could brand me as a liar or ignorant. Oh really? See the prove above. If you are trying to provoke me with your pathetic insults into some verbal aggressive reaction so that you can brand me as some anti-semite, sorry, that doesn`t work anymore. Once I realized that you are not here to debate but to distract and to manipulate, you start getting predictable. Interesting, that you wrote "mad" instead of "made". Maybe that was just a typo. Maybe not. You know, that our subconscious sometimes tries to inform us about the state of our mind. You should listen to yours. You lost yours ling time ago when you started to whitewash an ongoing genocide and smear everybody rightfully criticizing it with evil manipulation techniques.

@all Guys read this great report, which @JimCM found, before posting. https://bearing-witness.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Gaza_English-v6.7.0-5.7.25.pdf

Best post ever. Wouldn`t it be just great if only those members were allowed to partake in these debates who have read this article, written by a renowned Jewish historian first?

Oh, trust me, he perfectly knows that. Missing the point was the whole point of his post. And distracting you by misleading you into useless discussions about "nobody likes the Palestinians" in order to justify their genocide while totally ignoring the fact that nobody liked the Jews either.

Seriously guys, the impudence and shamelessness some members here display in our debates is fascinating but at the same time incredibly frustrating. You wrote a few days ago “Jews consider themselves to be chosen people, …. , Is not based on racial or ethnic superiority” I showed you a quote were a Jew and member of this forum wrote and "YES JEWS ARE SUPERIOR TO THE ARAB MUSLIM RACE IN SO MANY WAYS …" And yet you repeat for false statement just a few days later And when I remind you of the quote I had shown you which clearly proves the opposite of your repeated accusation all you have to say is What kind of answer is this? I had clearly proven to you, that you were wrong but you cannot let go of your false and generalized accusation. Why can`t you just admit the truth: SOME Jews see themselves as superior that's why some people criticize that - nothing anti-semitic about it. But you love your victim role too much and keep on creating new perpetrators to prove your victimhood. When @ChaiyaTH mentions that you don`t raise sympathy by justifying wrong behaviour so no wonder people have issues with you since centuries your answer is: you instinctively brand him as an anti-semite for justifying persecution of Jews in history, despite he did not say anything like that. Smart as you are you disguise it as a question so you can at any time say, you never accused him you just asked. Or when I write an imaginary story supposed to explain the situations of many people in the occupied territories, which is about a guy who does not want to fight Israel, tries to keep himself and his family out of trouble and is even insulted as a traitor by Hamas members, Is confronted by a heavy loss: his 14 year old son was killed by an IDF soldier without any reason. Believing in justice he files a complaint with the Israeli authorities and other than many Palestinians he's Even so lucky that his complaint is accepted, not dismissed Later and the prosecution is not closed and the murderer is in fact prosecuted. He is sentenced to 30 days of community service. Despite I started this story with "Imagine it is 2020 and you are living in Gaza or in the West Bank. You're a Palestinian." So it was absolutely clear, that I was not reporting any actual incidents but just trying demonstrate what it means to live in Gaza as a Palestinian. Yet @Yellowtail came up with “Oh gazans are not harassed every day . You are lying” and other ridiculous arguments and more stupid questions only to debunk the core message of my post. Which is based on facts. Facts that clearly prove Israel as the racist state it is. Facts which are very uncomfortable for the Israel defenders. When the soldiers of your country can indiscriminately kill children in an occupied area and less than 1% of these war criminals are prosecuted and received sentences and the average sentence is one month of community service, then this should be your main concern and not some unimportant discrepancies in my post. Yet you go on with ridiculous answers in order to distract from the main problem. Which again shows me that you don't see this decade long atrocities which never faced justice as a problem. Instead you whine about antisemitism at every occasion and try to brand some members in here of being anti-semitic by intentionally misinterpreting their posts Here another example: Once again I clearly made a difference between justification and explanation. Every child would understand that. But you go on with your embarrassing debate strategies and despite better knowledge plus that I just had explained the difference. And keep distracting our attention away from Israel's atrocities to the policies of other countries. What has this to do with Gaza as an open air prison and why do you think @JimCM is an expert on internal affairs of the surrounding countries? And even after @JimCMhe has politely answered your question, you repeat it: "Oh my, so why will no other country accept refugees from Palestine?" There is simply no point in debating with guys like you, because you don't debate, you just use unfair strategies like branding, permanent repetition, framing, distracting to defend your lost cause. And it is lost. Because even if your lie, that the attacks of October 7 were unprovoked, was true, nothing, absolutely nothing can justify what your country did in response. Nothing can justify the indiscriminate murder of 70,000 people 1/3 of them being innocent children, some of them your soldiers even intentionally shot for target practice, your destruction of almost every building, your intentional murder of journalists, medics and foreign aid workers, all disciplines where you reached new world records, not to mention the starvation. If opposing all these atrocities makes me an anti-semite in your eyes, so be it. But what does defending these atrocities and silencing or facing any criticism with pathetic debating methods make you in the eyes of the world? And what does it make your country, if only the vetoes of the last remaining superpower have saved you countless times from UN resolutions in the last 7 decades which were supposed to stop your attacks on neighboring countries, your illegal settlements and other atrocities towards civilians? Again I let a Jew answer that:

Why do you again try blame switching by intentionally mistaking explanation for justification? NOBODY here justified the atrocities of October 7. Stop implying that. But the way Israel had treated Gazans for decades, the Thousands of dead and Ten thousands of disabled were an explanation for it. Stop the wrong accusations. The 1200 killed were not mostly children. 30 of them were children. And if you rightfully condemn that why not condemn the 17.000 dead kids in Gaza?

Buddy, are you suffering from memory loss? I posted that 3 days ago.

I apologize to you. And yes, somehow that was an insult but I was just "cooperating" to see how far that gets. Because it was very clear from the start that you're not having a conversation here. What you did was it quite well-known debate strategy, mostly used in discussions when your opponent is exposing something which is contrary to your position and in addition is having the better arguments. 1. Pick out some completely unimportant debatable point and accuse your opponent of being a liar 2. Confuse your opponent with the next triviality 3. Create more confusion by taking out every sentence out of context and machine gunning him with questions 4. Until he gets frustrated and might even swear at you 5. Accuse him of his misbehavior towards you and continue with victim switching while branding him as uneducated and lacking brain power so following logic anything he said is wrong and stupid. You are not dumb. You are actually very smart and have mastered this debate strategy. The only sad thing is that you obviously do not realize what you are doing. You are protecting a fascist and apartheid system while whitewashing its aggressions and brutality towards people it has occupied in the past and justifying more atrocities towards them in the present and the future. You are stripping the Palestinians of their basic human rights and condemn them for things Israel has done to them 1000 times more. And you do all this by downplaying or denying Israeli atrocities While trying to present them as the victims. Same as you I am not able to offer a solution but other than you, I strongly believe that a fair solution for both sides can only be found by unsparingly revealing the truth of the actions and crimes of both sides And not by hiding it and trying to rewrite history. Because this way you are condemned to repeat it.

You understand the difference between an insult and a question, do you? I did not call you dumb. You called me a liar based on a fictional story, which I clearly identified as one and tried to distract from my core message.

A few were allowed for medical treatment for example. Yep, some self-made excuses of a missile which almost never caused major damage. Do you understand that I told an imaginary story based on true incidents? My core messages were no lies. You quit reading and start whitewashing. And try to distract from the facts

Are you that dumb? Or are you intentionally overreading the core message: OK, maybe too many words for you so here is the summary: Between 2017 and 2021, Thousands of Palestinians were shot and more than 70.000 heavily injured by the IDF or settlers on Palestinian soil. Many Palestinians filed complaints. But from all those complaints only 1260 were accepted by the Israeli military law enforcement system. Most of those complaints were dismissed after a "preliminary examination," and only 248 investigations were opened. Again, the vast majority of them were closed without prosecution. 11 investigations led to indictments against soldiers. A few soldiers got prosecuted and received sentences Less than 1% of the IDF soldiers who had murdered innocent Palestinians, many of them children, were prosecuted. They got 1 to 2 months of community service. Classic APARTHEID Got it? No? Read for yourself: https://www.mekomit.co.il/הסיכוי-לכתב-אישום-נגד-חייל-שפגע-בפלסטי/

I wrote Gaza or in the West Bank. Gazans were harassed when travelling outside their borders. Maybe no Israeli soldiers in Gaza at that time but Thousands of Israeli bullets fired into Gaza, intentionally killing or disabling kids. You try to misinterpret my writing or find unimportant mistakes to whitewash decade long Israeli crimes against humanity. Shame on you. By the way, what would you answer? A or B?

A people who steal land and create their own ethno-religious country on it, in which they claim the right of freedom and self-determination cannot ask for for another people, from whom they stole the land, to be under permanent control. Yet, that is typical Israeli behavior. Asking for absolute security for themselves while demanding for total control and no security for others. They are the only country which never admitted having nukes, yet have the balls to tell the US to destroy facilities in Iran which may develop nukes. Israel is the Karen of the Middle East.

You should really take a bit of your time to read some of the information presented to you instead of repeating that Israeli propaganda. So are so saying that Gazans had a total normal life some as you and me? Are a few pictures of houses, malls and restaurants enough to convince you that no harm has been done? Let me take you on a little Journey into daily Palestinian life Imagine it is 2020 and you are living in Gaza or in the West Bank. You're a Palestinian. You are harassed by Israeli soldiers almost daily, stopping you for no reason, asking you funny questions, sometimes even pushing you around. Sometimes you're even harassed by Hamas or members of other fighting groups trying to recruit you. But you resist. They too push you around, are suspicious that you might be a spy of Israel, a traitor of Islam but at least a coward. But you don't want to fight. You know there is no point in it. You try to keep yourself out of any kind of trouble, believing that this is the best way to keep harm away from you and your family. That's all you want. To go to work, make a little money to make ends meet and provide for your family. Your wife died years ago due to the lack of medication because Israel won't allow any import. All you have is your son whom you love more than yourself. You hope for a better life for him. You teach him to act peacefully and never draw the attention of the foreign soldiers, and if approached by them always be respectful. Until one day your phone rings. Your 14-year-old son was shot by IDF soldiers, while playing football with friends. Your world collapses. Grief is unbearable. This time you want to fight. You want justice. So, you go and file a complaint with the Israeli authorities. Same as countless of other Palestinians who filed complaints between 2017 and 2021, where Thousands of Palestinians were shot and more than 70.000 heavily injured by the IDF or settlers. But from all those complaints only 1260 were accepted by the Israeli military law enforcement system. But you are lucky, yours is among those 1260. Most of those complaints were dismissed after a "preliminary examination," and only 248 investigations were opened. You are lucky again; your complaint is among those 248. Again, the vast majority of them were closed without prosecution. You are lucky again, yours is one of the 11 investigations which led to indictments against soldiers. The IDF soldier who murdered your son had clearly acted contrary to the instructions and approval of his commanders. There was no reason to kill your son. He had done nothing wrong. And Jackpot! He gets prosecuted. At least maybe your way of living, your commitment to peace and against any kind of violence and hope for coexistence in harmony with the Israelis was the right thing to do. It couldn't protect him from being killed but at least justice has prevailed. That's what you think. Well, until you hear the sentence that IDF soldier received: Thirty days of community service. This is what your boy’s life is worth. Thirty goddamned days. This is one of many cases that really happened and not some fantasy. Now here comes the question. You go home, everything feels unreal, you look at the corner with your son's bed and his few belongings, with the books he loved to study, and you still cannot believe that he will never come home again. That you will never hear his voice, his laughter. You have failed him. Again, your phone rings. The voice on the other side is deep but somehow soothing almost friendly. It's a Hamas recruiter. “Brother, for how much longer do you want to ignore the path Allah has assigned for you? We do not promise fame. But we provide income if you fight with us, same as for your family if you die fighting with us. And there is one thing we guarantee you in the name of the Almighty:” And after a short yet impressive pause the voice says only one word: “Justice!” Now tell me, dear @Hanaguma, which answer you will give them? a. “<deleted> off. I love the Jews. I love Israel. I want peaceful coexistence.” b. “I`m in.”

Unprovoked? Are you kidding? Only between 01.01.23 and 06.10.23 about 236 Palestinians were shot. 191 in 2022, 328, most of them in Gaza in 2021 and so on. Their main intention was to capture hostages to trade them for detained Palestinians, many of them without charge and/or minors. Nope, they have no right to start a war in occupied territory. And they did a <deleted>ty job so far: look at the numbers: Hamas took 251 hostages on October 7 and killed about 1200. At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF's use of the Hannibal Directive on that day. The IDF attacked Gaza in order to rescue the hostages and end Hamas. They bombed almost every building to "rescue" the hostages, I mean, what can go wrong. We don`t know how many hostages died in captivity because of the IDF. 3 were shot by IDF soldiers despite holding white flags and shouting in Hebrew. The IDF rescued only 8 hostages in those 2 years and killed 70.000 Palestinians. They killed more hostages than they rescued. Most hostages were released during cease fires, despite Israel was always against cease fires. I don`t know what those Billions of Taxdollars the US gave them in form of money and weapons have been used for but surely not for effectivity. Oh, and Hamas is still there. Great job, Incapable Dumb Faggots Nope, Israel did that by rejecting ceasefires and keep bombing their own people in captivity. Did ist. Afaik Israel has killed a few Palestinians in the last days.

YES! Because they were happy to move to their newly created own Jewish country, something they did not have for about 2000 years. Again, MOST of them left freely and unharmed. And motivated by all those Jewish organizations actively supporting their migration. Just a few, if any, were deported. This narrative about almost a Million Jews being driven out of Arab countries after 1948 is just a Zionist lie to justify the Nakba. Buddy, I LIVED in Iran in the late 70ies. I had many Jewish friends. None of them were treated badly, neither in the time of the Shah nor later after January 1979 when the Ayatollahs took over. Some then decided to leave for Israel fearing the new Muslim regime, some stayed and do so since then - unharmed. That propaganda about every Muslim wanting to kill all Jews is absolute BS.

Oh yes, those famous quotes from Golda Mabovitch, born in Ukraine same as her ancestors and moved to Wisconsin as a kid and somehow thinks she has a right to the land in Palestine because of her being Jewish. More right than those people living there for many generations so that she can kill "their sons" and later blame the Palestinians for the murder committed by her own people. Sounds familiar. Same Israelis right now, stating they cannot forgive Palestinians for making them kill 18.000 Palestinian kids. Pathetic! Same some perv seeing some sexy dressed woman in a park and later lamenting "Oh, I will never forgive her for making me rape her." Can`t you see how ridiculous that sounds?

May I remind everybody that in the first decades after the creation of Israel in all those meetings and summits to find an agreement or a deal fair for both sides Palestinians weren`t even allowed to partake because Israel refused to recognize Palestine and even later they were only allowed to attend as observers. So again, what deals? Except those which can be summarized as: "We keep everything we stole. You keep everything we did not steal yet. We keep total control over you."

You are even less super familiar with history as you are confusing expulsion with migration. Sure after the creation of Israel there were anti Zionist protests but most of the Jews freely left those countries to start a new life in the only Jewish country. Large-scale migrations were also organized, sponsored, and facilitated by Zionist organizations such as Mossad, Le Aliyah Bet, the Jewish Agency, and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. That is a completely different thing compared to what the Jews did to the Palestinians in 48. As for Iran, Jews have been living there for Millenia, some still do some left for Israel. Completely unharmed by the Ayatollah regime and still worshipping their God in their more than 25 Synagogues until present. Just please educate yourself better before you create more wrong narratives about the forever victim. Again wrong comparison. Jews lived in Palestine Millenia ago and claim the land out of that reason, were assigned to 56% of the land in 1947 by the UN, despite being less than 40% of the population, took more than assigned to them and keep stealing land since then from the Palestinians who are somehow expected to preserve their love and friendship to Israel and if not ..... TERRORIST! By the way as you seem to support illegal settlement justified by some presence Millenia ago and a promise by sky daddy , how is your stance about the right of the native Americans getting their land back and everybody else go back where the F... they came from? I mean, if they would come up with their promised land by Manitu.

Agreed. But what would you do, if a foreign power creates an ethno-religious state on your land, driving 750.000 of your people out, killing Thousands and turning the rest of you into second class people by law while continuously for decades stealing land assigned for you, while the world looks the other way or declares you as an evil terrorist? Any ideas?