Somjot

No, it actually means, you should better hurry, if you intend to.

Finally, back to topic: I have read most of the posts here but not all of them. Did anybody mention the money that has been taxed already? I mean there is a reason, countries even bother agreeing on DTAs. Because double taxation is against the law and must be avoided. And if one thing is sure, our countries know every cent we earn and we must pay tax for it. I can't imagine Thailand is going to make us pay tax one more time, if we wire that money into the country and can prove, that we have paid tax for it already. Apologies, if this has been mentioned before.

Oh my God, what have I done. You call the logic most tax systems in the modern world are based upon socialism. In addition, you are the top authority on what all Germans don't know and what all Germans love. And as if that is not enough, you also exactly know, what the whole forum here cares about and what not. Why haven`t I realised that earlier. What an unforgivable mistake even to think about opposing you. What a terrible waste of time. It won't happen again.

The reason why many parks or other public places built and maintained by the government with tax money and entrance fees ask foreigners for higher rates, is because they assume that they have more money than the average Thai. I think it is safe to say, that in most cases, surely not in all, this is the truth. Interestingly we seem to have a huge problem with it despite the same system is applied in our countries since before we were born. Most public libraries / community swimming pools in our countries ask retirees, students, and pupils for lower rates to get a membership / to enter the pool area. Why? Because they assume the average citizen or adult has more money than them, which again is the truth in most cases, surely not in all. Why do we easily accept lower prices for elderly and young citizen with assumed lower income status in our societies but feel discriminated and scream “racism”, when Thai nationals get a lower price than us. Why are we unable to understand that their history and ours is completely different. Racism has led to horrible things up to genocide in our past, but not in theirs, and even if, never in the same dimensions. They are not sensitized for racism as we are, so we cannot expect them to think and feel like us. However, they realized our issues with that, so the official policy is that, Thai nationals and tax residents get the same price. Always worked for me, when I show my tax ID card and speak a little Thai, never had to pay more than any Thai. Guys, you don't know what you're talking about. Medical services being more expensive than in Germany might be the case when extremely expensive medical devices are used, as some of them are produced in Germany, while Thailand must import them, so to the regular price you have to add transportation, the specialists who install and regularly maintain it plus the greedy customs. But generally, most medical services are much cheaper in Thailand compared to Germany. A full ceramic crown costs more than 1200,- € in Germany, while only 16.000,- Baht (421,- €) in Thailand, a PFM crown more than 1000,- € in Germany but only 13.000,- Baht (342,- €) in Thailand. The mentioned prices compare crowns of the exact same quality, produced with German metal and ceramics. But this is by far not the worst part. It's the service. Or better the lack of it. Last year in October my girlfriend felt a lump in her right breast. We went to Bangkok hospital Pattaya, immediately got an appointment with a gynecologist, who arranged all the necessary examinations, like ultrasonic, X-ray, etc. and told us about his diagnosis in both languages English and Thai - thanks God nothing life threatening - and suggested a minor surgery. They suggested a few appointments within the next days and asked which one would suit us, my answer being “yesterday”. The surgery took place a few days later, everything went great, the lump was analyzed afterwards, and we got the confirmation, that it was not malignant a few days later. The whole thing cost less than 50,000 Baht, most of it was paid buy her health insurance. Coincidentally a schoolmate of my girlfriend, now living in Germany for some years, had the same problem last year early November. Her worried German husband called the nearest hospital asking for an examination. Guess what they answered. “We can offer you an appointment by the end of January.” I don't know how the whole thing ended but I witnessed another incident, and it still eats away at me. A friend in his mid-60s, rich guy living in Thailand with his Thai wife was diagnosed terminal esophageal cancer last March in Bangkok hospital Pattaya. They told him, that he probably has about six weeks to live and they can assist him, ease his pain, with doctors and nurses at his service 24 hours a day, but not save him. He sent all his examination results to a hospital in his hometown, Dortmund, in Germany and they basically told him the same (except the part with the 24 hour service). As he did not speak Thai maybe he thought it would be easier to communicate in German with the doctors or maybe he hoped for a better treatment there. However, he made an appointment with the German hospital, took care of his wife and said farewell to her, both knowing, they will never see each other again. When he arrived at the hospital in Germany, he was told (and I know the exact dialogue, because he told me): “Sorry, we can't take you, we are on strike now.” “But I am dying.” “Yeah, but you are not an emergency.” Go figure! So much for German medical services. With a lot of luck a hospital in Berlin, the Charite, took him and a few weeks later he died – all alone in his room. So please, don't get me started on the German healthcare system. And trust me, I know a lot about it. Why? I am a doctor from Germany.

Buddy, I never wrote explicitly about the Pattaya motorway. I wrote about the adventurous drive from Don Muang to Pattaya in the pre-motorway era: „Some of you might still remember the adventurous drive from Don Muang airport to Pattaya when there were no highways or motorways“. Nevertheless, what difference does it make? Any highway or motorway is at first financed by the government and built for the convenience of the people and it takes years for the return of investment. Do you have any source to confirm this? AFAIK everybody pays the same VAT. If expats really spent 10 to 20 times more compared to the average Thai, as you write, it also means, that they have 10 to 20 times more money. I can only hope, you are wrong, as if not, that would put expats to shame for having so much money and yet refusing to pay a little tax. Truth to be told, I don't, I'm just trying to contribute to this forum, by sharing valuable information, giving some advice or in this case, when I see that everybody is sharing the same viewpoint, I apply the 10th man principle by playing the devil's advocate and offering another viewpoint. That's a very good way to widen one's horizon and thinking out-of-the-box, but only if one is willing to. Can't remember that poll but last year I left Germany for good, as it is not the country, I grew up in anymore.

I was not trying to patronize anybody; I was just curious how are the members think about this matter. Nobody wants to pay tax, yet it is necessary. The points you mentioned are partially not quite correct: Some of the motorways were financed by the Transport Ministry and some by the Highways Department but none of them primarily by toll as that money must be collected after those roads are finished and that takes many years. I remember that case mentioned in your link very well, as the person, who owned the seized aircraft had to fly with a regular plane a few days later in which I coincidentally had booked a seat as well - that was a very interesting flight. The German company was Wagner Bau and they had built the motorway to Don Muang. However, the Thai government refused to pay them, despite they lost that case in court, which finally led to the bankruptcy of that company. The insolvency administrator in charge could have seized any plane of Thai Airways, but somehow, he thought it might be a good idea to seize that special one, so the whole story will not end up as marginalia in the newspapers and will make it to the headlines. The VAT you mentioned is only 7%, so I would not call it “a lot of”. The import tax on western food is very high, not to mention the expensive process to get the Thai FDA approval. If you have ever asked yourself, why your favorite jam can be bought in Thailand but only a few sorts, the reason is they must go through that expensive approval process from the Thai FDA for every single flavor variety. Nevertheless, it entirely depends on us if we buy the expensive imported stuff or not. It's not a necessity. The renewal of the retirement visa costs only 1900, - Baht. Compared to the millions of Baht of unpaid hospital bills from foreigners, this is not much. The good news is no matter if we must pay double, triple or 100 times more entrance fee for National Parks, once you are a tax resident you pay the same fee as Thai people. I'm living and working here for quite some time, and I pay taxes on my income; never had a problem with it. What concerns me, is that I don’t want to pay tax twice. I have some property in Germany, which I rent out and for which I must pay 30% ++ tax from the first Euro on, no special expenses or tax-free amount allowed, because I'm living in Thailand. If I should retire one day and send this money to my Thai bank account for my living expenses and Thailand wants me to pay taxes for it again, then I'm out. Anyway, I will tell you one perfect argument, why none of us should pay any taxes here - ever. In order to get my work permit I had to go through a few exams, some of them taking place in the Chulalongkorn university in Bangkok. The professors there were very nice and friendly and, on an evening out with them after, let's say not only a few glasses of beer, one of them told me an interesting story: Some Ministry had asked for a comparative study. They wanted to know which factor had the greatest impact on the development of the rural region in Issan, the Thai government projects, the Thai NGO projects, or the money sent by foreigners to their Thai girlfriends or wives. “And?” I asked “what was the result?” “We were never allowed to publish it.” He answered. “Why?” “It was devastating” he said with a serious face, then he took a big sip and finished “Devastating for us.”

This will probably be the least popular post in the whole thread and yet I have to get it off my chest: It goes to all those “I'm not going to pay a single Satang of tax in this country” – guys. How do you justify that? Let's not discuss about corrupt politicians; they are there and we're not going to change that. But think about schools or government universities. Somebody has to pay for that. What about law enforcement? Yeah, I know, they're all very corrupt and bad, blah blah, but every time a foreigner is robbed by some Thai, the local police get that guy in less than 24 hours. Can't say the same thing about our law enforcement. If you should ever need them, you will be more than happy that they are there. Or the justice system. Again, yeah, I know that old saying “If you need a lawyer in Thailand, you have lost already.” And yet you will be glad, in case you need it. What about government hospitals. Many of you might have a high-class health insurance, but trust me when I say, most Farangs I met in Thailand do not have a health insurance at all. That together with a small budget and the day will come when their life might depend on the existence of those government hospitals. And even if you belong to that lucky group of people with a first-class health insurance. What about the love of your life you met last month? Does she have one? Paying her bills in a private hospital will make your holiday funds shrink faster than a snowman in the desert and I don't even want to start about that Buffalo, that seems to only get sick, when the lady has a new boyfriend. And if all that doesn't bother you, my last point will: Infrastructure! Some of you might still remember the adventurous drive from Don Muang airport to Pattaya when there were no highways or motorways. We're using their streets every day. What makes you think, any of this should be free of charge for you and there is no reason to support this at least a little bit?

Guys, just calm down. There is no reason for panic as you have all the time in the world to plan your future. Let's say there will be taxes on rent or whatever kind of income you have, and you have decided for yourself not to stay more than 180 days or even to leave the country forever in such a case. In the first case you have time until the 27th of June 2024 to leave the country for a long holiday (= 180 days, assuming you have been living in the country since the 1st of January or earlier). In the second case you have much more time than that. Why? Because the deadline for your first tax declaration is April or May in the following year, which is April or May 2025. And that is a lot of time to pack your things and tell Thailand “Djoe gan chad naa, don bai bai” (see you in my next life, sometime in the early afternoon).

How they count the 180 days? Quite simple, let's say you arrive in Thailand on the 5th of March 11:00 PM and leave on the 25th of March at 03:00 AM. They will count 21 days and not 20. Every day you stay in the Kingdom counts and they will tell it from the stamps in your passport. It doesn't make a difference if you arrived in Thailand at 11:00 PM on the 5th of March, as long as the arrival stamp in your passport says 5th of March, you have been in Thailand since the 5th of March.

That is the first positive post in this thread.

Your post is a bit confusing. You write that you are on a retirement visa and later describe yourself as a permanent resident. Residing in Thailand permanently does not make you a permanent resident. Visa based on marriage / retirement, which has to be renewed every year where you have to show many different documents, retirement fees and/or bank statement about 800 K and so on and is a completely different thing than a permanent residency. The latter is very difficult to get, takes many years where you and your background are checked and costs a lot of money until finally the minister for foreign affairs signs his is OK. Per year only 100 people from one nationality can apply. I disagree with you. Besides the points you mentioned, not having to wire your money from your home country, if you want to buy a condo and easy coming and going you can also get the blue TABIEN BAAN and not only the yellow one. You can stay as long as you want, no saying hello every 90 days and you only have to apply for a re-entry permit, if you intend to leave the country. Retirement visa seems to be quite easy, but a friend of mine is here on marriage visa and he has always a bad mood weeks before he has to renew it, as they always find something new, some document, some proof, they will ask him for. Basically, you have to ask every year for permission to stay for another year and you never know when that one law comes, may it be a minimum income higher than yours, may it be some health insurance, which you cannot get, because of your health status or only a little overweight and BOOM! Your life plan goes down the toilet. Not with the permanent residency. And by the way, when those repatriation flights to Thailand started somewhat in July 2020, after COVID had led to a complete shutdown all over the world, I could have easily been on the first flight. As this did not match with my business plans, I took the second on the 20th of August 2020, while all those retirement and marriage visa guys had to stay in their countries not knowing when they could ever get back to their homes. Although I have to admit those 15 days of quarantine locked in a room without a balcony and welded windows, which could not be opened were quite an ordeal. After seven days I started talking to my suitcase. On the tenth day, early afternoon, my suitcase answered. But that is another story.

A very interesting thread although saddening sometimes as it shows the huge gap between the two mentalities but also the constant refusal of some people to change their mind, even if they see the written proof that they're wrong. As I do not wish to start any feud and do not have the intention to patronise anyone, I'll just quote a few interesting posts and comment them: A million baht will get me literally 1,000 short times. Possible, but this thread is about marriage, living together, planning a future, starting a family and many more things but not about men paying women to use her body as a <deleted> device for a short period of time. I stick with my own traditions regardless of where I am, You might not care, how people in your host country think about you but you will miss the best part of your journey: learning about another religion, another mentality, other traditions, other ways of thinking and many more things which would have widened your horizon. You can buy a lot of love and affection in Thailand for 1,000,000 THB To cite Tony Stark “no amount of money ever bought a second of time” and the same thing can be said about love, affection, and sex. Using a woman's body as a <deleted> device and going through your typical porn routine, BJ, intercourse in different positions and finally CIM, while she is moaning “I luuuub you so muddd” and thinking about her next Som Tum meal, has not much to do with sex. It's not more than “assisted masturbation”. golddigers, all Thai people,, all more greedy money grubbers trying to take advantage of some a foreigner Pathetic and typically Thai. All about money, I hear that a lot. In most cases from some western foreigner, who has had a great time with hundreds of women screaming after him like a rock star, who maybe even had a relationship or a marriage with a Thai woman but one day the pink coloured glasses came off. From then on, they say things like “All Thai people are liars, scammers, thieves and racists, who hate us and all what they want is our money and nothing else.” A few times I asked: “why are you still here?” which caused confusion, so I specified my question. “If I would wake up every morning in a country full of liars, scammers, thieves, and racists, all of them having one thing in common: they all hate me. I would get out of that place ASAP. So, one more time: why are you still here?” Still waiting for an answer. Offer 2m cos she's so special, but you need time to sell your house back home ....... bang her for a year, then confess you don't have the money so you'll have to call off the wedding. They'll agree cos they're greedy. Wait a minute, I thought THEY are the scammers. Why would anyone pay for an "educated women" as if her knowledge from some Thai university is ever going to be useful to you. Probably not if you're only here for your 1000 short times, but if you start thinking about renting a place, buying a car or even property with all the contracts you have to sign and all the government places where you have to fill out forms, such a person might come in handy - except of course you can read and write Thai. and perhaps he doesn't want to have to "buy" his wife as he has principles. It's disgusting that parents see their daughter as a commodity and are willing to sell her. I could never sell my daughter. Guys please, even the Thai embassy has been quoted here and they should know - at least much better than us. You can't buy a person. Period! Sinsod is just a tradition, a gesture, a thank you for the parents for raising such an angel and maybe a compensation, that from now on she will take care of you and not of her parents. And there is absolutely no legal obligation to pay! Getting your panties in a bunch - or was it knickers in a twist? – whatever, will get you nowhere. In Thailand the person who gets angry and a red face is the one who “lost his face”. The Asian way would be to turn this problem into an opportunity: If she really knows you, knows your financial and familiar background (generally spoken to my experience those girls who are really interested in you, your family and your background are those who really love you, while the ones, who are only interested in the next payment, couldn't care less about you) and really has the intention to start a life with you, she will try to trade her parents down or at least agree with them on a huge amount of money which most of it has to be paid back to you after the ceremony. She will see herself as your partner and every dollar less in your wallet is a dollar less in your common future household. But if she sees you only as the Walking ATM and her only marital duty being to extract as much money as possible from you in the days to come, she will start this by demanding an outrageous sum. You see, that Sinsod thing can be quite useful, if you know how.

I don`t dare to ask, what payment he wants for a castration.

I think it is you who is taking things the wrong way I recommended a clinic „employing not more than 5 or 8 dentists with two or three general practicians and the rest being specialists“, which implies that at least one of them is specialized on root canal treatment. And @Yellowtail recommended Bangkok hospital dental centre, which sounds like a big place, where you normally confined many dentists with different fields of expertise. You see, we perfectly understood, what you are looking for.

Exactly, dear @spock Or to use a phrase from the movie 300: “You Spartans Vulcans take pride in your logic. I suggest you imply it.” Sorry I'm a cineast. There are so many dental clinics in Bangkok; just Google them, find one of your taste and be done with it. Oops, again (GOT). In the medical field things work quite differently in Thailand. We westerners prefer to look for a good doctor or dentist and once we have found one, we stay with him or her “till death do us part”. In Thailand many doctors don't want to bother opening a clinic with all the risks and costs, so they work in hospitals, many times even in two or three different hospitals at the same time spending one or two days in one and then moving on to the next. That can be quite confusing for us as we want to see our doctor at any day of the week. I think that you might be more comfortable with a smaller clinic employing not more than 5 or 8 dentists with two or three general practicians and the rest being specialists.

Listen, I was not trying to advertise for them. I just knew, they had a microscope for root canal treatment, which is the proper equipment for a specialist. But of course, I have no idea about their staff. Generally spoken I would be careful with any place, which has 100% good reviews with maximum points (good reviews can be created or bought; bad reviews can be removed by a good lawyer), same as places, which have mostly bad reviews (speaks for itself). The reviews of those places are reliable, which are 95% good and the rest being bad. But this is just my personal experience. I have heard things similar to those, which you describe but you have to understand, I am the only foreign dentist in Thailand running his own clinic and I must be extremely careful, how I comment any other clinics, as I am - how do I express this? - permanently under a microscope myself, not a dental one as you can imagine. There are people just waiting for me to make a wrong move; I have no intention to grant them this favor.

Now that you're advertising your without any doubt very unusual method, I'd like to ask some questions: How did you get that grooves in the tooth so that your twine wouldn't slip off, especially without injuring neighboring soft tissue or teeth? How do you sterilize your twine and whatever instrument you use for creating those grooves. For a proper sterilization they must be exposed to heat for 20 minutes and a temperature of 121 °C with a pressure of 2 bar or for 5 minutes and 134 °C with 3 bar but you knew that already. What do you do in case of complications, just to name a few: 1. A wound infection, which can easily turn into a life-threatening osteomyelitis? 2. The twine I have seen on your picture will pull only on one side of the tooth comparable to the rope on the neck of a person sentenced to death, which in most cases will result in a broken neck. The effect on your tooth is that it is not only pulled but also tilted to one side at the same time which may result in a good part of the alveolar bone being ripped out too. 3. As the roots of the upper molars are very close to the sinuses, their extraction leads to a connection between mouth and maxillary sinus in many cases, which must be treated with a plastic maxillary sinus occlusion immediately. I have no doubt, you`ll concur that these complications must be attended to and cannot be ignored. How do you proceed in these cases?

Please keep in mind that you have been asking for an endodontist, aka root canal specialist. Now as I wrote, most root canal treatments can be successfully performed by experienced dentists but if there is a high chance for complications, the root canal specialist is the person you want to visit. In most cases they have a couple of months if not years of additional education and experience and the much better equipment than the normal dentist. For example they work with a dental microscope, a huge piece of equipment, normally fixed on the wall with prices starting 20,000,- € and more, not to mention the special motors for the treatment. As far as I know, the dental hospital has this equipment same as the Bangkok hospital Pattaya. However, generally I tried to avoid any kind of recommendations no matter if according to clinics, restaurants or hotels as one man's heaven is the next man's hell. And I would be a bit careful with those reviews. It is easy to ask friends and relatives for a good review without them ever having experienced your services but on the other hand side, some customers use this as a lever. Last year a guy came for a professional tooth cleaning, which was performed perfectly by my colleague within 50 minutes; after that he was handed a mirror to check the result. The guy was very happy, even complimented my doctor for his great and totally painless job, paid at the counter and left. Next morning, he called us by WhatsApp and complained, that after rechecking his teeth at home, he had noticed that 2 teeth are not completely clean. I apologised and offered him to come to my place immediately, so we can re-check and if necessary, re-treat. He said that he had lost his trust in us, was now traumatized and wants us to wire his money back. I asked: “We cleaned 26 teeth, which took us 50 minutes and because of 2 allegedly not perfectly cleaned teeth you want your complete money back?” “Smart guy.” He answered arrogantly and if I would refuse, he would write many horrible reviews about my clinic on Google Maps and many other social media, “so that you can close your dental <deleted>house within a month.”

This is correct.

Not only have I considered it, but I am also currently working in my own dental clinic in Pattaya. Why else would I go through that ordeal to get the Thai dental licence. Your implant looks great. The guy who did it, knew what he was doing. The distance to the neighboring teeth is perfect.

These days there seem to be so many specialists in dentistry. Any experienced, skilled dentist with good equipment can perform a root canal treatment. But if you have a history of failed root canal treatments or want to be 100% - there is no 100% in medicine - let's say, 98% sure that the treatment will be successful, then you have to go and see one of those endodontists. In Bangkok I would go to the dental hospital while in Pattaya I would recommend the Bangkok hospital Pattaya.

Looking at that executed … err … extracted tooth I can clearly see a lot of concrements in the subgingival area. This tooth must have been very loose and easily to extract, as those concrements always lead to gingiva and bone recession. But with a thorough subgingival curettage it might also tighten again and be in function by now. Next time you might want to try to keep the tooth first. And I doubt, that you could extract for example a hurting tooth with a deep caries but a healthy periodontal ligament, with your method.

§ 10 Para. 4 (Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz) states: revoking your foreign citizenship is one of the requirements to get the German one § 12 quotes a few exceptions from § 10 para.4: Para. 2: the foreign country does not allow revoking the citizenship Para. 5: revoking the foreign citizenship would lead to significant disadvantages concerning the laws of assets / property or economical disadvantages for the foreigner. I think your friend will just have to ask. Sorry for my horrible translation; I am not familiar with "law language".

As I wrote, the whole thing happened 11 years ago and the laws have changed since then. My ex-wife showed me the announcement and she was worried for a while, as in the moment, when she would get the German citizenship the local City Hall would cancel the permanent residency for Germany in her Thai passport, as being a German citizen she wouldn't need a visa for Germany anymore. And we were worried, that when she would travel from Thailand to Germany, the officer would check her Thai passport (of course she wouldn't show her German one) and ask her, how she is going to enter Germany without a valid visa. We both made a bit of research. While she found out that many Hi So Thai nationals, the most famous at that time being Mr. Abhisit, had double citizenship, I got the information that the only “authority”, who would check her permission to enter Germany is actually the airline, as they are responsible for that. If they would allow any person on one of their planes who is not allowed to enter the country of destination, they are responsible for getting him back. The officer at the immigration desk does normally not check the visa. As far as I know she never had any issues with that.

As you may know Germany has the problem, that it is running out of Germans. So, they saw no other way out, than to select countries, where they would allow double citizenship. They knew for a long time, that renouncing the Thai citizenship to get the German one would be very hard for Thai nationals for example if they owned property back home. They just didn't care. As Thai citizens living in Germany are not known for causing a lot of trouble and if the worst they would do, is some fraud with Internet poker, in 2012 it was decided to grant them double citizenship. I know, because as soon as I got the information in that year, my now ex-wife applied for the German citizenship and got it one year later (we had been married for more than 10 years by then). And I also remember, that one day after the German government had announced that, there was an announcement on the website of every Thai embassy in Germany, that Thailand still does not accept double citizenship and that from now on immigration officers are ordered to control incoming Thai passengers from Germany and if they should catch one with double citizenship, there would be huge problems, although they never defined those problems. As far as I know foreigners for example from the Middle East are still not granted double citizenship and I can't say that I am disappointed about that. What I never forget, was the day, when my wife was invited to come and get her documents which proved that she is German from now on. The last thing she had to do was to read a list with hundreds of different terroristic organizations and confirm that she “does not cooperate or sympathize” with any of these organizations. I said “Wait a minute, this is our line of defense? This is how you separate the bad guys from the good guys? So I could sit here with an explosive belt making ticking noises and just sign, that I have nothing to do with any of these organizations and get my German citizenship?” The officer said “this is not funny.” And I answered “Absolutely not. I am confused and worried, as I don't see any kind of protection for our country from this list. There are rumors that some of those terrorists might also be liars.” She said “Sure, but if we find out later, that you have been lying about this, we can renounce the German citizenship at any time.” When leaving I said: “Yep! That would surely scare the <deleted> out of them.”