Somjot

Not in this case. Before the conflict, Gaza was a thriving agricultural hub, where farmers and ordinary Palestinians cultivated a wide variety of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains for local consumption. Israel has targeted food sources – orchards, greenhouses, farmland and fishers – since the beginning of its siege on Gaza in October 2023. Israel’s destruction of Gaza has left starving Palestinians with access to only 1.5% of cropland that is accessible and suitable for cultivation, according to new figures from the UN. In this case it is made by Israel, the only democracy in the middle east.

Practicing for the next Eurovision

How dare you? It is not his mistake that you fail to understand the new moral compass: If a strong person publicly beats a much weaker person into coma, he is not to blame. The only one to blame is the also weak bystander, who did not dare to help. What are you demanding next? That a man who saw a beautiful woman in a park and raped her is to blame for that? Unbelievable. Everybody knows that it is clearly her fault. She chose to walk in that park and made the poor guy rape her. Have you no mercy with the real victim? 🤣

And THAT from an Israeli!! 🤣 Hilarious! You made my day.😂

Thank you very much for your meaningful and reflective answer. This does not happen often in this sub forum, where BMs are throwing unsubstantiated and hateful accusations at each other most of the time. I will try to respond in the same manner. (Apologies in advance for my bad English; I am not a native speaker). I have observed that more than once anger and frustration had quite some influence on my posts, so considering myself a reasonable, educated and therefore self-critical person, I tried to find out why. Born in Germany I grew up with guilt originating from the darkest part of our history leading to a lifetime duty to never let this happen again and to support the state of Israel. A few years of my childhood I lived in a secular Muslim country, which was a shock for me at first but very soon I realized, that people from different cultures, religions and mentalities have way more in common than they have differences. I made friends, learned the language and was devastated when we hastily left as the place had turned into hell ruled by radical Islamists. My friends and I sent each other letters, reminiscing about the time we had spent together and expressing our hope to reunite soon. Then one day their letters stopped coming. Years later I was heartbroken when I heard, that some of them had been arrested, tortured and executed for criticizing the government and refusing to believe in some bearded old man riding to the sky on a white camel. So, if anything, I am biased against radical Islamists or any religion created by some shepherds or camel riders millennia ago being used in our days to justify crimes against innocent people. However, October 7 happened and same as everybody, I was shocked and disgusted by the brutality and the savagery of Hamas and fully supported the counterattack. But then I started to notice weird things. After the Gazan death toll raised to 1000, then 2000 and a few days later 3000, a few people started questioning the actions of Israel or asking how the destruction of all those buildings could possibly secure the safe return of the hostages as they could be held captive in one of them. The pro-Israelis did not respond in a way you would expect from someone who is acting according to our moral standards and international law. Critics were either silenced or accused of being Pro-Hamas and anti – semitic, even when they only had demanded more protection of the civilian population. No one was safe and literally everybody, no matter if he was a respected defender of western values, a human rights judge, the leader of a modern western country not even the pope himself, from being labeled as pro terrorist and anti-Semitic. At the same time more lies told by the IDF or Israeli spokespersons were debunked, starting with those 30 babies, beheaded and put in ovens and the gang rapes. The so-called “proofs” presented by the IDF were in parts just ridiculous like the list found in a tunnel with the “names of terrorists” which turned out to be a calendar or the interview with an Al Shifa nurse who was actually an Israeli actress, lying into the camera. The international media used different expressions, where Hamas was always “heinous” or “abhorrent” and Israelis were “brutally murdered” while the IDF was “the most moral army of the world, defending Israel and protecting Gazan civilians by unaliving only terrorists”. And everybody just bought that, while repeating : “Israel must defend itself. Israel has the right to defend itself. Do you think Israel has the right to exist? Do you condemn Hamas?” It felt unreal, like a witch hunt where the hunters created an atmosphere of fear to silence any doubt of Israel´s actions, an atmosphere I knew too well as I had felt it before as a child when suddenly fanatics dictated wrong and right. People speaking in favor of Gaza lost their jobs or were deported, congresses and peaceful demonstrations for Gaza, which are clearly basic rights in Germany, were forbidden or brutally stopped by the police. I did not understand why. Why would those who are supposed to protect western values like freedom, justice, human rights and freedom of speech act in such way? My understanding of a real democracy is, that it must be able to tolerate opinions opposing the mainstream, at least when they are based on true facts. Then I started educating myself and what I found out turned my world upside down: I had been lied to my entire life. Most of the things I had been taught at school were simply made up or just focused on a certain part of history while completely ignoring others. I was taught the story of people without the land coming to the land without people. Not a single word about the Nakba and the Palestinians being killed or displaced while their villages were destroyed and their land stolen and all of that because of a claim on that land based on a book more than 3000 years old. I found out that the West including my country, Germany, does support all the achievements of the post war generation like the establishment of international organizations and agreements (United Nations (UN), United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) … … except when it comes to Israel. Here the rules are upside down. Even when most countries decided resolutions against Israel, which is the country with by far the most condemnations by the UN, which alone should tell us a lot, the US has always protected them with their veto. The Western countries, the USA, the UK and Germany which unequivocally support Israel no matter what, do that not only internationally but also on a national level where the basic rights of their citizens are sacrificed for Israel. The main reason for my opinion on this suspect is not primarily the injustice Israel has brought on the Palestinian people in the last decades. Let´s be realistic: Israelis live on stolen land but hey, who doesn´t? Most of us do, as someone was most likely already here, before our ancestors showed up. What does infuriate me is when the rights, basic laws and justice systems, which treat every individual equally and grant us our freedoms and a life in security and free from fear is corrupted on our own soil. What also enrages me is the level of idiocy atrocities are justified by Israel and their supporters same as the level of audacity in their obvious lies as if they assume their opponents’ IQ must be something below room temperature. Since when is the best reaction if beloved ones are abducted and held hostage in a certain area to bomb the whole area?? Or “Oh no, we did not kill and bury those 15 help workers, we have never heard about them.” “Ok, we gave them permission to drive through that area but never harmed them” “All right, they are dead but Hamas killed them.” “OK, we killed them but that was because they did not turn their light on.” “All right, their lights were on but … but … but one of them knew someone whose uncle`s sister has a neighbor, who owns a dog which had intercourse with another dog which is suspected to have a Hamas owner”. And what deeply worries me is how freely and without any doubt people born and raised in the West not only just accept all of that but wholeheartedly support it parroting those lies at every occasion. Let`s have a meaningful debate, without any hate speech and parroted stupidity and with the understanding that the prerequisite of any real debate or discussion is to generally accept that there is a chance, no matter how small, that my opponent is right and I am wrong. Cheers Somjot

But you clearly are, maybe unintentionally. Just look how you described the two opposing sides why not "with Israel and totally against Gaza"? Where is the balance in: "with a country and totally against another country or with another country and totally against terrorists"? Where is the balance in adding "the pro-Palensitine lobby seen to gloss over the Hamas involvement." but not adding: "the pro Israel lobby seen to gloss over the IDF involvement" But I did: That are the costs from October 7 compared to the costs Israel caused since then. And they do not include the costs to Gaza in all the previous decades. Maybe this creates a bit more clarity Don`t you think the side you are supporting is the one side which should rather not complain about disbalance? what necessity? Jews have almost always been welcome in that area. The actual problems started when they thought they need a religious apartheid ethno state for self determination (for whatever that means) and started brutally displacing and killing Arabs and stealing their land. So, yes, it is non-racist native land owners against racist colonialist land thieves, who present themselves as victims. No nuances, very simple actually, if one is willing to see the truth unbiased. But if one still believes in the good and righteous west and the evil and bloodthirsty (middle) east and ignores all the wars and death we have brought over them especially in the last decades, might see it differently.

Your history lesson forgets that the Romans renamed Judea into Syria Palaestina in the year 136 after the Bar Kochba revolt and it was called like that ever since. Jews were not allowed to enter Jerusalem since then for almost 5 centuries until the Muslim conquerors invaded the city and gave them permission and except the time of the crusades the region was Muslim. However if there is a law, which says, those who had a country in that area first will have the right to a state until the end of times, (which we know there is no such thing) then the Egyptians are the ones.

Nope, It was callled nothing before 1500 BC And then Egypt, the first country owning the area as a state. Later Philistines and Phoenicia around 1180 BC 1030 finally Israel, which was not more than a small spot, way smaller compared to today Then it became larger, almost from the river to the sea. But only for less than 40 years. That is not even a human`s lifetime. It shrunk again. separated into Israel and Judea, barely a small dot on the map shrunk further to a much smaller size than Israel today. and disappeared about 300 years after it showed up. Being Assyrian and later Egyptian before turning Persian for more than 400 years Then 129 Judea popped up and disappeared again after 67 years. It was a part of Rome for about 700 years It was called Judea for about 200 years and then around 600 years later for another 67 years. Since then it belonged to Persia, Rome, Egypt and the Ottoman Empire with every period existing longer than Israel ever did. So according to the Jewish "land owner rules" with which they justify their claim, any Persian, Roman or Egyptian has more rights to claim the land. Oh, I forgot, none of them was chosen.

100% agreed. I just corrected one or two spelling mistakes you made.

As a matter of fact, those 280 Palestinians were killed in their "homeland" Gaza. The question should be, how many Israelis were killed or injured since the ceasefire, that might justify such a death toll especially as once again children had to pay the price. And if so where those Israelis killed in their own country or were they invaders in another man`s land. If a few of those 20.000 children killed by Israel were not evil and insane terrorists, obviously so smart that they could turn baby formula into TNT, will Israel be held accountable? When we look to the Westbank where Israel is stealing land on a daily base, do we also have to ask, who is right? Counting the death on both sides may not answer the question who is right but it surely answers the question "who is acting more evil?" Especially when looking at the children`s death toll. 30 Israeli children and 20.000 Palestinian children. What was the rate since the cease fire? If those are our allies, what does that say about us? History will judge and I doubt we will be judged kindly.

To quote @Evil Penevil from another now closed thread: Yes, I still support Israel's right to exist as the homeland of the world's Jews. Israel has created it`s Basic Law in 2018 Just a few passages: 1 — Basic Principles B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious, and historical right to self-determination. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people. 5 — Ingathering of the Exiles: The state will be open for Jewish immigration and the ingathering of exiles. 6 — Connection to the Jewish people A. The state will strive to ensure the safety of the members of the Jewish people and of its citizens in trouble or in captivity due to the fact of their Jewishness or their citizenship. 7 — Jewish Settlement A. The state views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation. This law clearly enshrines Jewish supremacy over Palestinian citizens. The law has distinct apartheid characteristics and requires racist acts as a constitutional value. Israel still applies more than 50 laws that privilege Jews over Arabs. For example, the Law of Return, which grants only Jewish people to return to Israel, immediate statehood and even to illegally settle on Palestinian land. Now let`s look at some other facts: Israel and the US host the largest Jewish populations of 7.42 million and 7.46 million respectively. Other countries with core Jewish populations above 100,000 include France (440,000), Palestine (432,800), Canada (398,000), the United Kingdom (312,000), Argentina (171,000), Russia (132,000), Germany (125,000), and Australia (117,200). I wonder how many live in Thailand. However, this leads to 4 questions: 1. If Israel is the only country where Jewish people have a right to self-determination and are protected by law why are most of them living outside of Israel? 2. Isn't the fact that so many Jews live outside Israel, like our honored Jewish BMs, a proof, that Jews do not necessarily need a homeland? 3. And if they do, why are our honored Jewish BMs still here? 4. Most importantly: how would our honored Jewish BMs feel and react if their host countries would issue the same kind of law turning them into second class people same as their country has issued laws turning Arabs officially into second class people. I can almost hear their outcry: “ANTI-SEMITES!”

Well, I don`t. There is no international law saying that any country has a right to exist. People have a right to exist. I support the right of the Jewish people to exist same as any other people on this planet. I support that all people have the same right to exist. I believe that international law must be applied to every person on this planet in the same way. You support Israel's right to exist as the homeland of the Jews. But you forget that Israel was born by denying native people, who have been living there for generations, their right to exist in that area. They were displaced and murdered to make place for Jews and their so-called homeland, yet until today interestingly not even half of the world`s Jewish population lives in their homeland. Israel keeps insisting on its right to exist while at the same time it goes on stealing land, settling on it and de facto denying those people their right to exist on their land. Israel demands certain rights while denying others the same rights. The audacity. Now if you say you don't support those right wing politicians but you support Israel, I'm sorry but you do not sound very honest.

I understand your point but I do not understand how this justifies the existence of Israel as an apartheid ethno state over the existence of the people who have been living there for millennia. Israel was a state some 3000 years ago for 309 years but only for 40 years on an area which can be defined as "from the river to the sea" and another 30 years on an area of it`s present size, while the rest of the time being just a small dot on the map, later divided into 2 smaller dots. About 900 years later they somehow resurfaced as Judea for 67 years and vanished again. Until the creation of Israel in 1949 the area was Muslim for 1115 years, where Jews, Christians and Muslims would live peacefully most of the time although under different rulers. I really don`t understand on what their claim for the whole area is based and why they insist on their ethno state.

The guy sounds confused to me, he doesn't deliver any coherent content and some of the stuff he's saying it's just ridiculous” “The Jews never left” Great, so the Jewish diaspora 586 years BC is just a fairy tale or what? And what he says about the Westbank: “And I have friends and colleagues who live in some of those communities and are amazing human beings who are working alongside with and have immensely positive relationships with their Arab neighbors are embraced by their Arab neighbors and in turn embrace back. So, if you say, "Oh, I support the Palestinians and these settlers all have to go." My guess would be you've probably never been there. I mean, you've probably never had conversations with people. You've probably not understood or seen the complexity of the relationships between people. “ According to his description Palestinians in the Westbank and settlers are spending their time embracing each other. Does this guy watch news once in a while? Gutting a fish? Looks more like a drugged fish gutter gutting himself.

1. you mean after the genocide was over? How brave let others do the conquering for you. When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. Sure, they are still there, well 3% of them, when the shooting and land grabbing slowed down. Are you telling me there were no native people in North America? I heard different. And in YOUR world I am the liar? Oh, I forgot, your mushrooms.

What did you buy and cook? No, wait, let me take a guess. Buddy, my avatar is a simple "S", the first letter from my forum name, which the forum software did automatically. Wait a minute, the Israelis are fighting for the freedom of Gazans?? Now I am sure I know what you are cooking: MUSHROOMS!

The thread is about Israelis raping Palestinian detainees and there was a vid from the OP about rapists getting standing ovation. Someone doubted that so I posted 3 more videos about this topic Your first post was: When you wrote that video evidence could be manipulated or even made up I logically assumed you were talking about the previously presented video clips but I was not sure as you hadn`t addressed anyone so I asked Following your logic I asked you, if then October 7 never happened, as most evidence we have and are shown again and again are videos. I believe the middle school you so proudly mentioned, taught you the difference between telling and bitching on one side and asking a question on the other. What about you finally "having a go" at answering my question. Which videos are you referring to? If you are (most likely) doubting the vids shown in this thread do you also doubt all the videos from October 7. Or simplified: do you have a double standard when it comes to videos about the conflict?

I did very well understand what you wrote and you basically said that video clips are not valuable proof. But are video clips not everything we have from October 7th? Or are just those video clips without value which prove the atrocities of Israel?

You shouldn`t. He is so .... entertaining. His ability to deny the obvious truth, even when it is banging on his forehead and the way he explains, why the truth is not true, are just hilarious. And it teaches us a lot about most Israelis mindset: Filter anything not supporting your agenda out, just act as if it is not happening even if it is actually happening in front of your eyes and just keep those few positive impressions you might have seen or just imagined to see and what do you get? The most moral army in the world. I was shocked when I realized, they`re not making a sarcastic joke, no, they really mean it.

They wouldn`t have to if we did not infiltrate and f... up their countries first They were civilized long before us.

How dare you, you Muslimist. Hamas took hostages, the IDF prisoners. Hamas performed a heinous barbaric attack killing more than 1000 IDF was just self - defending killing almost 100.000 Israelis were brutally murdered. Gazans were unalived. Hamas rapes. IDF performs open air gymnastics protecting their detainees with shields

Strong words from a descendant of the savage, brutal Christianist colonialists who occupied North America and committed genocide of the natives

What happened? Forgot to pay for your internet and phone contract?

Sure? Nobody forgot that. Pro Israelis made sure of that. Because every time someone mentions new atrocities committed by Israel since October 7 almost everyday for more than 770 days, they repeat that single day. Idf killed civilians. October 7 Idf destroyed hospitals. October 7 Idf bombed the whole place. October 7 Idf shot children. October 7 Idf starved Gazans. October 7 Id raped detainees. October 7 Reminds me of Shaggy`s "It wasn`t me" where he asked his friend for advice after his gf caught him cheating But she caught me on the counter (Wasn't me) Saw me bangin' on the sofa (Wasn't me) I even had her in the shower (Wasn't me) She even caught me on camera (Wasn't me) She saw the marks on my shoulder (Wasn't me) Heard the words that I told her (Wasn't me) Heard the screams gettin' louder (Wasn't me)

So you are saying October 7 never happened? Or what are you saying?