WDSmart

On both sides... Civilians are killed without their willing participation in the hostilities. Soldiers are killed during their willing participation in the hostilities. What difference does this make? Deaths are deaths.

Well, I'm certainly glad Premier Netanyahu has never said anything like that about Israeli troops... "On Memorial Day, premier also says the sacrifices made by Israel's troops are necessary for peace." Netanyahu: Sacrifices made by Israel's troops necessary for peace - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

The way I see it, ALL the criticism here from you and several others is directed at Palestine. That's anti-Semitic in my book. I've repeatedly said I would like to see a one-state solution where both parties could live in peace on equal terms, but that now seems impossible. I now recommend a two-state solution based generally on the UN's 1947 map the proposed when they recognized the state of Israel.

It looks like another three or four (or maybe it will be recorded as 20) "Hamas terrorists" the IDF can add to their breakdown of the number of Palestinians they have successfully eliminated in Gaza. Five-year-old Palestinian girl found dead after being trapped in car under Israeli fire | CNN

I'm not a promoter of Hamas propaganda. I just didn't care about the breakdown. What difference does it make if those killed are deemed to have been Hamas terrorists by the IDF? They probably think every adult male is a Hamas terrorist, especially the ones they kill. And I assume most of these killed were killed by bombs, not in hand-to-hand combat, so IMO, the IDF's figures on the breakdown are inflated or, at best, optimistic estimates. The Hama figures, on the other hand, are not broken down by types of people, and that, too, may indeed be purposeful. My point is that we just don't know what the real figures are, but we can be sure that the numbers of the dead and wounded in Gaza are very, very high.

No, those numbers didn't have a breakdown by civilians vs. militants or even Palestinians vs. Israelis. Just Killed and Injured by Total, Women, and Children, and Missing by Total. No, I'm not antisemitic. I'm neither anti-Jew or anti-Arab. "_/(*)\_"

And, how would you characterize figures from the IDF?

I disagree, but I'm sure I'll give you more to ponder... "_/(*)\_"

Here are the latest figures today and the link: "Israel has continued its attacks across the Gaza Strip, including near hospitals and in the south of the besieged enclave, where ground operations are intensifying. Here are the latest casualty figures as of February 9 at 11:30pm in Gaza (09:30 GMT): Gaza Killed: at least 27,947 people, including more than: 12,150 children 8,300 women Injured: more than 67,459, including at least: 8,663 children 6,327 women Missing: more than 7,000" Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera

Here's more information for you... I do not need to know all the details because I can conclude, make correct assumptions, and take appropriate actions by looking at the "big picture." I don't need to know all the details. I've had this ability my whole life, and my entire professional career was based on this. Here's an example to explain it to you: If I start to cross the street and look up and see a car bearing down on me at a high speed, I immediately step back on the curb. I don't need to know the details: the make and year of the car, exactly how fast it is going, how many people are in it, what the driver's name is, etc. I immediately assess the situation and step back on the curb. Do you understand now? Or do you need more details?

Do you know what BS means? They are my initials using my nickname, Bill. I assume that's what you meant by that. M means Morch.

All the above is just a bunch of M!

The IDF figures were a breakdown of their total figures. And I'm sure they have a different total figure than Hamas has. And I'm sure Hamas has a different set of breakdown figures also. Who would you think would have the most accurate figures, those creating the deaths, wounding, and displacements, or those that are experiencing it? And, before you get set to scold me again, I'm sure both sides adjust their figures to suit their strategies and tactics.

I never said I have a good grasp of the details. I don't need the details to make a supposition. I can't say I know the facts or the reality because I don't think anyone really does. The "facts" are different depending on who you are reading or listening to online. And this entire war seems unreal to me. I don't know the names of the leaders. I do know the names of the major parties involved. I do believe I know their ideologies, at least their bottom lines. It really doesn't matter who said what if you can't depend on the who or what they said. You have to make your own suppositions and draw your own conclusions. Yes, there are a whole lot of things I don't know about this and everything else, but I'll guarantee my suppositions are more correct than your beliefs. I don't pause before posting anything that interests me and that I want to share. There are some on these Topics that appreciate my neutrality and honesty and have told me so.

I don't necessarily believe either set. I know both sets are biased and both sets, at best, give an approximation of the real numbers, which no one really knows. I take the totals that seem to be most revealing about what is really happening.

I've never held myself to by an "informed" poster. I've held myself to be a poster who watches CNN and reads some of the posts online (outside of AseanNow) about these topics. I don't know the names of all those involved, but don't see why that's important. I see the destruction and base my remarks on that. That's good enough for me.

No, I didn't even know there was a Hamas official that reports the daily figures. I don't look for them daily, I just look them up on the Internet when I want to know the most recent total.

I don't know who Yoav Gallant is, and anyway, why would I believe him? And even if this is true, that's still at least 50,000 to 60,000 civilian killed injured.

I don't know the breakdown of the (almost) 70,000 number. (The last I saw was actually 67,000 or so.) Some probably were Hamas fighters. There are two considerations there: 1. The breakdown will differ depending on whose numbers you are looking at. 2. The identification of Hamas fighters will also differ. Hamas's figures would be less, and IDF's figures would be more. IDF would, understandably, count almost all adult male casualties as Hamas fighters.

Yes, and I'm sure all these IDF "plans" will work as well to protect Palestinian citizens in Rafah as the previous ones in the other parts of Gaza where there have been almost 70,000 killed injured.

Thanks, I didn't know there was a new separate Rafah Topic. I'll post my post there.

"Netanyahu on Thursday said that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) would “soon go into Rafah, Hamas’s last bastion.” The top commander in charge of Israel’s military operation in southern Gaza told CNN on Sunday that there was no plan in place yet for how to minimize civilian deaths in Rafah." Netanyahu directs Israeli military to draw up plan to evacuate more than one million people from Rafah as offensive looms | CNN This is just proof of the ongoing military plan to eliminate as many Palestinians from Gaza, and probably soon, the West Bank, as possible. This announcement by Israel is finally having the effect it should have long ago - the waning of support for Israel's bloody onslaught by members of the UN and the entire world community, including the USA. The citizens of Rafah have no place to go. The IDF's previous commitments to a "safety zone" or "safe passage" have proven to be false, so even if they do propose one, it is not likely that Palestinians will believe them, or that it will be provided as promised. ‘Our last stop is Rafah’: trapped Palestinians await Israeli onslaught | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian Hopefully, before the IDF can start their indiscriminate killings, the UN and the world's governments will step up and put pressure on Israel to cease and start negotiating a settlement in good faith with the Palestinians instead of just referring to Hamas' latest offer as "delusional." ‘Our last stop is Rafah’: trapped Palestinians await Israeli onslaught | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

IDF to start invading Rafah, Gaza "Netanyahu on Thursday said that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) would “soon go into Rafah, Hamas’s last bastion.” The top commander in charge of Israel’s military operation in southern Gaza told CNN on Sunday that there was no plan in place yet for how to minimize civilian deaths in Rafah." Netanyahu directs Israeli military to draw up plan to evacuate more than one million people from Rafah as offensive looms | CNN This is just proof of the ongoing military plan to eliminate as many Palestinians from Gaza, and probably soon, the West Bank, as possible. This announcement by Israel is finally having the effect it should have long ago - the waning of support for Israel's bloody onslaught by members of the UN and the entire world community, including the USA. The citizens of Rafah have no place to go. The IDF's previous commitments to a "safety zone" or "safe passage" have proven to be false, so even if they do propose one, it is not likely that Palestinians will believe them, or that it will be provided as promised. ‘Our last stop is Rafah’: trapped Palestinians await Israeli onslaught | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian Hopefully, before the IDF can start their indiscriminate killings, the UN and the world's governments will step up and put pressure on Israel to cease and start negotiating a settlement in good faith with the Palestinians instead of just referring to Hamas' latest offer as "delusional." ‘Our last stop is Rafah’: trapped Palestinians await Israeli onslaught | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

I admitted my typing error and corrected it to what I originally posted with a link four or five posts ago, which is "almost 30,000 were killed and 70,000 wounded." And many more than that displaced. The hostage exchange tactics were my recommendation only. From what I've recently seen, Hamas offers to do this in just the opposite order. You claim, "Hamas does not lead all Palestinians, and arguably, not even all Gazans." I don't disagree, but then it's now becoming obvious that Netanyahu and his government do not lead all the Israelis. So, what's the difference? Both of these "leaders" are the ones in charge right now. Zionists are a right-wing, militant, nationalistic faction that is trying to gain complete control over all the land in the state of Israel. "Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew: Eretz Yisraʾel, “the Land of Israel”)." Zionism | Definition, History, Examples, & Facts | Britannica

My mistake! When I posted these numbers before, and when I did, I posted them correctly and noted the source for these numbers. My original post with the correct numbers was "almost 30,000 killed and 70,000 injured." Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera