Mike Lister

The issue is NOT whether anyone has or hasn't, the issue IS whether it is or it isn't. This is not directed at you but this debate has become banal and circular, it is pointless to engage in such things, until new evidence is introduced to change the staid boring old arguments that are mostly entrenched emotion. Over and out

I agree and don't agree! In this particular case, it's consensus opinion, Expat Tax has spoken on the subject, as has TRD representatives publically. Until something better comes along to disprove those two sources, that 's what I prefer to believe. And the evidence is that the UK's HMRC also consider those things assessable income, which further strengthens the case. But once again, people can believe whatever they want, just don't tell me that I'm wrong, just because one small well connected law firm says it is so.

Because, as discussed previously (!) the TRD officers at the Hua Hin presentation some months ago, stated that they (ATM and CC) were both considered to be assessable. That information is contained somewhere in a video that somebody posted but I can't be bothered to try and find it.....it's up to you and everyone else, what they want to believe at this point. All done here.

ATM Withdrawals and Payments Expats often ask if withdrawing cash in Thailand from an overseas account or paying a third party, like school fees with a foreign credit card, counts as a remittance taxable in Thailand. The answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities. https://www.expattaxthailand.com/how-crs-enables-thailands-tax-authorities-to-track-your-finances/ Goodbye stat.

You wrote: "How? It's a gift from his wife to him. No?" Goodbye, you and me are done here

You asked me why it was tax evasion and I explained. Don't insult me because I gave you an answer you didn't like. I don't care what you do with your taxes, how much you pay or not pay or whether you go to jail or not. Bye.

The issue is not about how they would know if he was using the card, he told us he would use it, he therefore admits to tax evasion.

What is written on paper is meant to reflect reality, if it doesn't, that's tax evasion.

If you tax guy has already been filing for you, you already have a tax account and a TIN, you should ask him what the number is but it will almost certainly be on the copies of any tax returns that he gives you. I get that you file as non-resident for tax purposes, because your income arises inside Thailand but you are not tax resident.

He says he has a credit card that allows him to access those funds, which means he is using the funds that were supposed to be a gift. To be a gift, the funds not be returned to the giver in any way.

I run every morning and nearly always encounter dogs, most are usually OK. On the rare occasion a dog is not OK and becomes aggressive, I carry a copy of one of those long posts you frequently find in the tax threads and start reading aloud......even the most aggressive dog usually loses interest quickly and slinks away.

This, "only for Thai" line has its limits, not providing the same discount to all old age people is over the line for me, it's just not in good faith. What next, over age 65 years tax deduction of 190k is only for Thai also! Very very possibly.

You raise a point that only a lawyer can answer conclusively, my opinion is that you can but that's only an opinion. The advantage of course, as you realise, is the additional PA of 60k which is certainly useful.

Inevitable.

You have nothing to be concerned about, your calculations are correct and you have plenty of room to spare.

Stop, reach down to the ground as if to pick up something....dog runs away every time. If it doesn't and it comes at you, be prepared to kill it. The hospital erred on the side of caution, that bill is quite reasonable for the things you received. A government hospital would have been much cheaper but so what, we're not talking huge amounts.

I’m trying gradually to step away from the front line of the tax debates, it has after all been eight long months and I now have other things I would like to get involved in, elsewhere. Consequently I found myself looking more closely at the people who remain and was struck by their make up. In going forward, a problem I see is not in some members knowledge of tax but in the way they handle information, the picture I have is this: One of the most knowledgeable players has minimal regard for fact and draws nearly all their conclusions based on common sense, sentiment and emotion. Another person who is heavily involved is a classic ideologue, they constantly attempt to make even the flimsiest evidence support their conclusions, which once formed, are very difficult to dislodge. A third person is an ever present bi-stander who only comments on things said by others and has almost never offered anything other than opinion and has never posted facts about Thai tax. A fourth person is easily the most knowledgeable and capable by miles but mostly remains outside the mainstream debates these days. This is probably because he is smart enough to understand that there is no new news and probably wont be for some months, hence, there’s nothing new to talk about. Fortunately, there is a significant underlying cast of members, who attend frequently, who, very much like me, are solely evidence based and want to see proof that something is true. It’s not difficult to see why the two groups are frequently at loggerheads. In the absence of hard fact, sentiment often becomes fact and this is the major risk, that opinion will become fact in some people’s minds. I can’t stress too strongly how important I think it is that members demand to see indisputable and incontrovertible proof when anything significant is stated as fact. Just being a daily presence in these discussions is not enough to make what is said, fact. I accept that the search for consistent facts in a country such as Thailand, can sometimes be difficult because things can change without notice and decisions are often made, off the cuff. I also accept that rules here are sometimes ignored. None of those things mean however that decisions don’t get made and facts don’t exist, they do. Sometimes you just have to be patient or dig a little deeper, for most of us that just means waiting and for many people that’s painful.

There's more information here, if needed:

As I recall it costs about 1.500 in the North, from a pharmacy..

A wholly unrealistic aspiration.

I've read the Trilogy mainy times, my favorite read of all times.

Can I listen in when you try to explain the HBD option to TRD......I'll pay good money.

It sounds like you are on fairly safe ground with all of that.

The following may help you: GIFT TAX 67) First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. What the Rules Say 68) The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. 69) If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. 70) The third scenario is not agreed by everyone and is contingent upon further input from the TRD. It suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. 71) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 72) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 73) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 74) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What Some Members Think: 75) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 76) Additional points on this subject are: a) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. b) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. c) Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property. d) Gifts made outside Thailand appear to be safe. e) The Gift must be formally documented and recorded, the more documentation the better. f) No more than THB 20 mill should be remitted to Thailand per year, unless 5% Gift Tax is paid on the balance. 77) Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds.