Mike Lister

The S&P reaching new highs reminds that, "markets can stay irrational, longer than you can stay solvent"! Meanwhile China suffers a continued USD 6 trill+ rout hence the spread becomes even more massive.

Grasping at straws.....it is earnings season. Sorry, that's the best I could come up with. I, like you, see no logical reason for change hence we're going to keep bouncing up and down in that same narrow gap between ceiling and floor until either something breaks or something unexpectedly delicious happens. Trump? The prospect terrifies me. Russia would probably head into Europe and the US would pull out of NATO. China meanwhile, well, you know what would happen there.

The existing Revenue Department Code and RD Law is linked in the OP, it is the basis that is used today for all Thai tax residents, native and foreign, to file a tax return and has been so for decades. It is a seriously unhelpful distraction to try and question whether the existing tax rules are fit for purpose, when applied to expat tax residents, and to insist on quotes to prove that they are! The basic premise is that the current RD Law and Code is fit for purpose but that changes are needed and that changes are in the pipeline. That is the baseline for the document in the OP and of any questions and discussions in this thread. Any further posts that question that baseline, the degree to which the current RD law and code, fits individual needs or indeed attempts to divert from the purpose of the thread, will be deleted without warning. Repeated postings of that nature will result in formal warnings and beyond. That is the end of this discussion.

There are 88 other DTA's apart from the US and UK DTA's, not all posters are from just those two countries.

I am removing a post that that presumes the Revenue code doesn't cover certain classes of people. If there is proof it does not, posters should post links confirming that fact rather than post their own presumptions. The post went on to say what the Revenue would have said, had it covered those classes of people. Since posters are unlikely to know that, it also is a presumption. This thread will deal only with what is known rather than what posters presume.

Another Section of the code that people should take note of, in particular landlords who derive income from renting out property in their home country and/or landlords renting out property inside Thailand: SECTION 41: A taxpayer who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment, or from business carried on in Thailand, or from business of an employer residing in Thailand, or from a property situated in Thailand shall pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part, whether such income is paid within or outside Thailand. A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part. Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand.

Absolutely not, in my opinion. There are over 4 million foreigners in Thailand, 300k of them Westerns, a dual rate tax system would label the country as a pariah and mean that no foreigners would ever work here and it would seriously harm inbound FDI. The country relies on foreign workers and in many industries, foreign expertise, Japanese management and technical experts are in an abundance here.

The Optometrist at Vision Center is well worth consulting with, unless your eye complaint is of the nature that absolutely requires an Ophthalmologist. Whilst there, you might chat with him about the same things being discussed here. The Sriphat list of Ophthalmologist's is below: https://sriphat.med.cmu.ac.th/en/service/detail/14

Exactly that, it's like corralling horses (or sheep).

Very much so, it's the only medical institution in the North where I've not had a bad experience. Plus, I had surgery there in November to remove my thyroid and I was wowed by the professionalism. I had a torn retina a couple of years ago and was advised by a small eye hospital to have a radical procedure that was not cheap. I became so concerned that I went to the Rutnin Eye Hospital in Bangkok and saw Dr Roy who shook his head in disbelief and recommended I find a new Ophthalmologist. Sriphat gives me a choice of several Ophthalmologists, most Assistant or Associate Professors.

My wife does the same, her number is out there, all over the place. She reckons she gets several scam calls a week but has become adept at figuring out which is which and how to deal with them. Sometimes it's the dialing code, Bangkok numbers quite often. If the call gets as far as the other person speaking, she reckons it takes her about 5 seconds to know.

It depends on you filing a tax return and declaring your income. The following will explain:

You asked earlier about exchange rates and converting values to THB, the RD Code says the following from Chapter 1: Section 9 Unless stated otherwise, if it is necessary to convert foreign currency into Thai currency in order to comply with this Title, it shall be converted using the exchange rate which the Ministry of Finance announces from time to time. 1 1N.MF.Re: Rates of Exchange of Foreign Currencies Against Thai Currency under Section 9 of the Revenue Code. Section 9 Bis Unless stated otherwise, if it is necessary to evaluate assets or other benefits into money, the price or value receivable on the date that the asset or benefits is received shall be used. https://www.rd.go.th/english/37699.html#section9

If the number is not in my phone book, the call gets bounced, period.

For anyone who wants to read the document linked above, the following section (40) is a useful reference point: Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer. (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.4 This is NOT the full extent of the definition which extends to 8 para's! And Section 42 para 12 reads, in part: Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: (12) Special pension, Sadly there is no definition of what a special pension constitutes! But maybe that's an incentive for more people to read the link!

A number of links have been posted but the one below is probably the most important of all. It's the English language version of Thai Revenue Law and contains everything you need to know, including the RD Code. It also show updates, as and when they are released. It also contains links to all the Dual Tax Agreements as well as chapter and verse on Tax Clearance Certificates (TCC), a section that continues to be actively updated! Note: the link contains the official translation but in case of dispute, the Thai language version takes precedent. https://www.rd.go.th/english/37698.html

If you go to Kanchanaburi, Erawan National Park and the Erawan Falls is a must see and not far from the city, it's one of the most beautiful parks in Thailand. The river that runs through it falls in a series of seven tiered waterfalls over several miles, a challenging but rewarding walk. https://www.thainationalparks.com/erawan-national-park

He's saying the same thing, it's just written differently.

Everyone, posts have been removed, enough of the bickering over trivial things!

The US Dollar Index is over 103% and the USD/THB ex rate is 35.5, that's well over its long term average in a year when the US economy is flirting with a recession. A more "normal" historic rate for the pair is around 32, which means any interest earned could be wiped out by Dollar devaluation. Really it all depends which currency you need to spend eventually. If USD, fine, T'bills is a great way to go. But if THB, converting to THB sooner rather than later may be better. These are my personal views however, others may differ.

If you don't have a view on probable future exchange rates currently, it's always safer to put your currency into an account that pays interest now and then exchange it for the currency you spend later, rather than leave it earning nothing now and hoping the exchange rate moves in your favor subsequently. If you can get 5% on USD without going offshore, I would take it and then take a view on the timing of exchange rates later.

A gentle reminder that any posts describing ways to evade Thai tax, will be removed. even the round about indirect ways. I appreciate your help with this.

This years tax filings covers the calendar year 2023 when the tax rules were the same as they were in past years. I imagine that if a person hasn't filed in previous years, they probably wont want to file this year either, unless they brought over income that was earned in 2023 which they fully know to be taxable. There again, there will be those who will file this year, simply because they have now found out that they should have been filing all along. In that respect, the announcement alone is likely to increase the tax net, without anything further being announce. aka the fear factor. Tax filings due in 2025 are based on 2024 financial activity. These will likely see an increase in people preparing tax returns and that will start once we reach 180 days in the current calendar year. By that time the new rules should be available but it's possible they will be delayed until later since the return is not required until 1 January 2025 at the earliest. So yes, two different years, two different sets of rules, raised awareness may make the difference to what people do.

I agree completely, for the first 17 years that I lived here, I rarely filed a complete annual return, except to reclaim tax withheld on savings. I think there are several parts to the problem: one is that many people don't know they are supposed to file, that includes a majority of foreigners I suspect; another part is that over 50% of workers earn money in the grey economy and don't want to file, even if they knew they are supposed to. But as Thailand becomes more joined up, the banks begin to see more precisely who is getting money from where because everything is rapidly becoming electronic and computerized. It's therefore simple for the RD to request those details and to flag something via Immigration and the visa system, there is nothing comparable for locals. Those are some of the challenges the RD faces in trying to increase the tax net. Foreigners' however are at a disadvantage in this regard because they can be made to file, locals rarely can. I suppose everyone has to make their own decisions on this and to file or not. But I think that many foreigners have already shone the light on themselves when they reclaimed tax paid on savings interest, that required them to obtain a TIN which they were only happy to do. We can't have it both ways. Lastly, I hope you and everyone else fully understands that we cannot and will not suggest to anyone that they shouldn't file a tax return because doing so would be illegal. Whether or not a person files, is an individual and personal decision.

It was unfortunate that you only quoted one small part of what was said because what was said next changed the context completely. "Hypothetically, the total value of your asset as of 31 December 2023 should be free of Thai tax, according to what has been said thus far, this whole business is alleged to start again new on 1 January 2024". This was followed by: "You can see from that example how unworkable that sort of system would be, which is why there will almost certainly be a different set of criteria, other than value as of 21 Dec 2023". To which you replied: "Surprising, but of course positive if latent, unrealized capital gains by 31.12.23 are tax exempt when realized later, and only the gains from 1.1.24 are assessable. I believe this is to good to be true"